Newbie 1494 -- Game Over

[Tony PF]

You might be right, but we also have to consider Squirrel Girl's willingness to wagon Nacho.

That willingness is among the things I liked from her.

I'm not exactly scared of you(or Nacho, or Squirrel Girl, or...you get the point), but I prefer the people I can be better than.

The amount of games one's played does not necessarily determine the quality of their play.

Post 52 is full of awesome scumhunting and nutty goodness. This is a fact.

Could be, as it could also be that you found something easy to argue about and started poking Rach. I also didn't like her posts, yet I had this funny feeling that arguing about it would have been a waste of time. Time will tell.

Hmm. I'm turning out to be way worse at Mafia than I'd hoped.

That's good in its own way, it's that much easier for you to get better. Once you know where you're at, you know what to work on.

Ok, if you're going to vouch for that post, get him to L-1. I'd like to see his claim, now that I think about it. And if anyone quick hammers, they die as tomorrow's lynch. Sound like a plan?

Why would he claim just by being at L-1 if you eliminate the risk of a hammer?

Off to bed.

I'm convinced about squirrel girl now.

UNVOTE: Squirrel Girl

And yeah, I should probably stop posting for today. My PF buddies are probably wondering where I am.

[Kenobi]

I have townreads of varying degrees on Tony, Conman, and Kenobi. I don't really have any scumreads as of yet, but Squirrel is on her way there.

conman, Tony and Squirrel I get. But Kenobi after 55? Hmmm.

VOTE: Kenobi

Now, should I provide my reasoning, or let a few people guess first so I can determine how they think? Decisions, decisions.

I'd love some of that tasty, tasty reasoning

That's fine. What do you think of my observation there? I've only played one game with Nacho, but he didn't seem to be fond of lengthy questions and explanations (but then again, he might have simply been more busy at the time).

Or my vote on Kenobi, for that matter.

And I agree with you about Nacho's reticence to post wordy replies; to be honest, it's kinda refreshing in that it cuts through a lot of the bs and waffle (ugh, that's a mental image I'm gonna have difficulty removing) that people post. I'm still reserving judgement on people, but I'm not really getting any solid reads on anyone yet. I'll try to post more but I'll probably be posting when you guys are asleep, and vice versa.

Also upside-down.

[homosapiensapien]

VOTE: Tony PF

[homosapiensapien]

everyone can call me HSS by the way,
Tony PF is very scummy in how he is acting so friendly,
I don't get to post much because I'm not always on the computer

[conman41895]

Yeah so are we all gonna jump on the fact that squirrel wagoner on Nacho and ignore Tony's wagoning on squirrel. I mean even though he removed his vote his random jump onto her after claiming he had a good town read on her is still kinda odd.

Also HSS how is being friendly scummy.

Also welcome New players! (I hope that wasn't too friendly)

[Kenobi]

At this point in the game, wagoning is fine. We've not gone above two people on a wagon as of yet (as far as I know, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), so neither of those wagons is particular worrying to me. That being said, I'm in agreement with Conman; friendliness =/= scumminess. Generally (at least in my very limited experience) the quieter people are the scummier ones, especially in RVS (then again, Tony kinda plowed right through that >.>). Admittedly, that was mostly with regard to newer players.

So at the moment, I'm more confused about Moon's intentions than anything else. I'm not going to start voting until I have a better lead than "acting so friendly" or this gem:

I agree with you on Squirrel Girl scum. The only vote she placed was on you, and that about the time when I voted you. I think she was probably trying to exploit my scum read on you to get a town lynch in, then blame me for it and lynch me, putting us in LyLo.

That is hardly LyLo. It's also an overly convoluted read and interpretation of a fairly common early-game tactic.

Anyways, I should pay attention to my lecture. I'll be back on later.

[Squirrel Girl]

Ok, if you're going to vouch for that post, get him to L-1. I'd like to see his claim, now that I think about it. And if anyone quick hammers, they die as tomorrow's lynch. Sound like a plan?

Sounds like 'every lynch ever' to me.

Could be, as it could also be that you found something easy to argue about and started poking Rach. I also didn't like her posts, yet I had this funny feeling that arguing about it would have been a waste of time. Time will tell.

Okay, first off I didn't poke her, i asked her why she was doing what she was doing.

Second off - you liked that I was pushing Nacho, you also agree that Rach's post was...iffy in some manner. But you didn't think there was value in questioning her, and I did...and that was what you had a problem with in post 52?

[Moonlight]

I'd love some of that tasty, tasty reasoning

It looks like buddying in the making. You're also assuming that Tony's push would actually get Nacho in trouble. A vote does not always come from a desire to lynch, so you are overreacting.

everyone can call me HSS by the way,
Tony PF is very scummy in how he is acting so friendly,
I don't get to post much because I'm not always on the computer

Why is that a scumtell exactly?

Also welcome New players! (I hope that wasn't too friendly)

Someone seems to care about how he is being read. Noted.

At this point in the game, wagoning is fine. We've not gone above two people on a wagon as of yet (as far as I know, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), so neither of those wagons is particular worrying to me. That being said, I'm in agreement with Conman; friendliness =/= scumminess. Generally (at least in my very limited experience) the quieter people are the scummier ones, especially in RVS (then again, Tony kinda plowed right through that >.>). Admittedly, that was mostly with regard to newer players.

So at the moment, I'm more confused about Moon's intentions than anything else. I'm not going to start voting until I have a better lead than "acting so friendly" or this gem:

I agree with you on Squirrel Girl scum. The only vote she placed was on you, and that about the time when I voted you. I think she was probably trying to exploit my scum read on you to get a town lynch in, then blame me for it and lynch me, putting us in LyLo.

That is hardly LyLo. It's also an overly convoluted read and interpretation of a fairly common early-game tactic.

Anyways, I should pay attention to my lecture. I'll be back on later.

*stamps the word Town on Kenobi's forehead* You're meant to be confused. Also, I thought Tony was being obviously silly there. =P

Okay, first off I didn't poke her, i asked her why she was doing what she was doing.

Second off - you liked that I was pushing Nacho, you also agree that Rach's post was...iffy in some manner. But you didn't think there was value in questioning her, and I did...and that was what you had a problem with in post 52?

I did say it's minor. She gave her opinion, you disagreed, but did you think you'd be able to change hers?

I still want that Nacho wagon, especially after Kenobi's comment on my observation.

VOTE: Nacho

[Tony PF]

I'm still game for a claim from Nacho.

VOTE: Nacho

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.04

Nachomamma8 - 3 - Squirrel Girl, Moonlight, Tony PF
Squirrel Girl - 1 - BipolarChemist
Tony PF - 1 - homosapiensapien

Not Voting: Kenobi, conman41895, RachMarie, Nachomamma8

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-04-25 23:06:24)

[Moonlight]

I am a bit concerned about Tony following my guidance unquestionably so far. I seem to have influenced his reads on both Squirrel and Nacho. Maybe I'm even more transparent than I thought?

I've liked his play, but if I had to find something to support scum-Tony right now, it would be him calling his interaction with Nacho Town vs Town. It's an indirect way of saying he himself is Town, but I could be reading way too much into it. :p

I'm not concerned enough to do something about any of that, especially with HSS already voting Tony and that strange image of a too-early-and-too-obvious-to-be-true Nacho/HSS scum pair in my head.

Things are getting interesting and I thought I'd share my messy thoughts.

[conman41895]

Tony why did you vote nacho? You just said he was appearing town to you and then you vote him with no reasoning. I don't get it...

[Squirrel Girl]

I'd love some of that tasty, tasty reasoning

It looks like buddying in the making.
[snip]

Tony PF is very scummy in how he is acting so friendly,
[snip]

Why is that a scumtell exactly?

You can wait to hear back from HSS first, I suppose, but then I'd like you to clarify these two exchanges and how they work together.

I did say it's minor. She gave her opinion, you disagreed, but did you think you'd be able to change hers?

I don't think anything I did even showed a desire to attempt to change her opinion. I asked her about why she did what she did because I found it questionable. Do you think every time a question is asked about play you find questionable it is equivalent to trying to change that person's playstyle?

Unvote: Nacho
Vote: Moonlight

I feel pretty good about this.

[Moonlight]

Being friendly in general is not the same as choosing to be friendly with one specific player in my opinion.

I told you exactly what it looked like to me. You're asking me a loaded question, because I did not say you were trying to change her playstyle; merely her opinion about whether pre-game stuff matters.

Regardless, why is that telling you that I'm scum?

[Squirrel Girl]

Being friendly in general is not the same as choosing to be friendly with one specific player in my opinion.

How did you discern that he wasn't friendly in general? Also, why would you then need to ask why someone found being friendly to be questionable - isn't it all part and parcel of the same tell as buddying?

I told you exactly what it looked like to me. You're asking me a loaded question, because I did not say you were trying to change her playstyle; merely her opinion about whether pre-game stuff matters.

My bad, i used opinion in the first part only. Okay, change 'playstyle' to 'opinion' and then answer the question?

Regardless, why is that telling you that I'm scum?

I think you're faking your reads. I think the reaching on what you perceived me as doing and the applying question to the friendly thing suggests it was more likely manipulative than honest on your part.

[Squirrel Girl]

I'll also admit ducking the question by debating 'opinion' vs. 'playstyle' reads bad to me too. You did the same sort of thing to me above, and I clarified my position and still answered the question. I think that's what the normal reaction would be. You just acted like the question was unanswerable even though I think the intent of it was quite clear. I think that's scummy too.

[Moonlight]

Being friendly in general is not the same as choosing to be friendly with one specific player in my opinion.

How did you discern that he wasn't friendly in general? Also, why would you then need to ask why someone found being friendly to be questionable - isn't it all part and parcel of the same tell as buddying?

The post I'm referring to is 55, and I see the possibility of a buddying attempt with Nacho specifically. It is one I feel safe to dismiss for now though.

I asked because I'm interested in seeing how HSS thinks. What I believe is a tell is irrelevant.

My bad, i used opinion in the first part only. Okay, change 'playstyle' to 'opinion' and then answer the question?

You're questioning her attempt to stop the wagon. The said attempt (at least according to her) comes from her belief that pre-game stuff does not matter. By assaulting one, aren't you assaulting the other? Not necessarily a bad thing, but I did not believe it was worth my time.

I think you're faking your reads. I think the reaching on what you perceived me as doing and the applying question to the friendly thing suggests it was more likely manipulative than honest on your part.

And you're so confident about that that you'd sabotage the wagon you also seemed to want on Nacho? That's a shame.

The speed with which you've replied at least tells me you're probably not spending much time constructing your posts, they're natural, which makes you a townread too. Feel free to suspect me, I welcome that. =)

[Squirrel Girl]

You're questioning her attempt to stop the wagon. The said attempt (at least according to her) comes from her belief that pre-game stuff does not matter. By assaulting one, aren't you assaulting the other? Not necessarily a bad thing, but I did not believe it was worth my time.

You questioned Buddying. By questioning that aren't you assaulting the concept that buddying is a scumtell?
Also, i didn't assault her.

And you're so confident about that that you'd sabotage the wagon you also seemed to want on Nacho? That's a shame.

I guess so... I really didn't think Nacho had done anything scummy though, so...?

The speed with which you've replied at least tells me you're probably not spending much time constructing your posts, they're natural, which makes you a townread too. Feel free to suspect me, I welcome that. =)

[Moonlight]

I guess so... I really didn't think Nacho had done anything scummy though, so...?

Not really, but my reasoning behind voting him is that he did something that seems strange for him. Take that with a pinch of salt though, as I've only played one game with him.

[RachMarie]

Nice to see some action in the game and more slots participating.

Moon my comments about RVS is though it seems a bit of a lame way to start things out, generally does a good job of getting a feel for people and especially how we break out of it can often give good clues to who is scum. By not having that stage, due to Tony's pre-emptive strike, kinda threw the rhythm of the game off. That being said, I feel from his posts he was doing it from a towny PoV so he goes in my town pile.

D 1 is critical for getting a feel for all the players and doing initial scum hunting. Discussion is good for the town, Having a lynch too soon is not. That benefits scum. We have 2 weeks for a reason we should make sure everyone has participated and we have info before being in a rush to lynch.

PEDIT how would you know Nacho? You are fairly new to the site, Moon?

[Squirrel Girl]

@Rach - do you think Nacho is town or that wagoning him is pointless to learn his alignment? Because even then I'm not sure why you're opposing the wagon since you seem to think that Tony is town, so at that stage isn't it worth watching it happen even if just for info and stuff? Why are you trying to dismantle it? Especially since you don't appear to have any other particular direction for us to go in.

[RachMarie]

SG

At the time when that was being discussed we had 2 players who

had not yet confirmed

so were likely to be replaced for sure, and 2 who had not posted much of anything. How much info can a town get if it is reliant on mainly 5 of 9 players?

Sorry for the late response, but I have cellulitis (ER trip on Friday) I see the doc in a few hours today to see how the meds are working. It is getting better, but it has meant spending a lot of time over the weekend in bed to keep my legs up.

[Moonlight]

Nice to see some action in the game and more slots participating.

Moon my comments about RVS is though it seems a bit of a lame way to start things out, generally does a good job of getting a feel for people and especially how we break out of it can often give good clues to who is scum. By not having that stage, due to Tony's pre-emptive strike, kinda threw the rhythm of the game off. That being said, I feel from his posts he was doing it from a towny PoV so he goes in my town pile.

D 1 is critical for getting a feel for all the players and doing initial scum hunting. Discussion is good for the town, Having a lynch too soon is not. That benefits scum. We have 2 weeks for a reason we should make sure everyone has participated and we have info before being in a rush to lynch.

PEDIT how would you know Nacho? You are fairly new to the site, Moon?

Indeed, he was the IC in my first completed game here. This would be my 4th game on the site overall, but I used to play on another site about a year ago. A lot of games, but the days were 48 hours long and I've found that my play is different here for some reason.

Anyway, back to the RVS topic: I consider it a "necessary evil". Yes, it works, but everyone wants it to end ASAP so that the real game can start. Tony's push with a reachy case stopped the RVS from happening altogether. And judging by Squirrel's vote on me, we're well into the real game.

[Squirrel Girl]

At the time when that was being discussed we had 2 players who

had not yet confirmed

so were likely to be replaced for sure, and 2 who had not posted much of anything. How much info can a town get if it is reliant on mainly 5 of 9 players?

I guess, info on those 5 of 9? I don't really feel you're answering my question here though. Is the logic 'unless everyone is present we shouldn't have wagons' or something? I'd love it if you could walk me through your thoughts and explain why you did what you did.

Sorry for the late response, but I have cellulitis (ER trip on Friday) I see the doc in a few hours today to see how the meds are working. It is getting better, but it has meant spending a lot of time over the weekend in bed to keep my legs up.

That sounds sucktastic. Then I was dumb enough to Google it and now I know it's sucktastic. Hope all goes well.

[BipolarChemist]

I'm convinced about squirrel girl now.

UNVOTE: Squirrel Girl

Exactly what are you basing this off of?