Touhou UPick 2 - [Game Over]

[pieguyn]

vote: zmuffin

die you scumfuck. you're not going to sweet talk your way out of it this time. plz stop spewing shit out of your ass

[pieguyn]

ilu too pieguy

<3

early townreads on both Feirei and Varsoon. Kagami seems like exactly the kind of person who'd fake a miller claim and so I don't wanna write her off as town yet

[pieguyn]

this is a serious vote

vote: Sakura

what are your thoughts so far?

[pieguyn]

pieguy

i'm town. are you town?

eh

sure

[pieguyn]

aaaaaaaagh did I mess this up

probably. oh well

[pieguyn]

Muffin vote pie

hint: if you're town you're pushing the exact opposite of who you should push. try somewhere else

Unvote
Vote: GIF

is this a serious vote?

what are your thoughts on GIF and Sakura?

[pieguyn]

You have no clue who I am? wow GiF wow.

this feels fake

pieguy, my thoughts so far as that feirei and Varsoon are bugging me, and the fact that notscience is pointing out why and no one is paying attention is bugging me too.

I assume it's bc they're early claiming?

why would you have a problem with that given

1. all they're even doing is, as zmuffin said, hinting at negative aspects of their role (aka not really claiming)
2. town in no small part won the last game bc they trusted each other from the get go?

do you really have no other thoughts besides that? what's your read on GIF? talk to me

Also i think Kagami is town based off claiming Miller right off the bat.

so you think Kagami is town for claiming miller, but when other ppl claim negative utility roles it's suspicious?

[pieguyn]

i dont really like how you're pushing me and dont follow up on your question, but ask everyone else's opinion of me.

there's a reason behind me not pushing you immediately but I can't reveal what it is @_@

my votes are always serious

knowing everyone's flavour is reminding me of your role in the first upick where you could detective every spell card that was used - i don't think it's a town role

do you think gif is town or something?

and i dunno about sakura. #83 is the only post that bothers me so far

I'm undecided about GIF. I've got a really really good GIF tell and based on this tell alone his first posts make me read him as scum (although I don't wanna say exactly what pinged me). but I screwed up last time I read him and so I wanna take my time before being sure of a read on him

what do you think of his early posting?

[pieguyn]

Sakura plz answer my other questions

I assume it's bc they're early claiming?

why would you have a problem with that given

1. all they're even doing is, as zmuffin said, hinting at negative aspects of their role (aka not really claiming)
2. town in no small part won the last game bc they trusted each other from the get go?

so you think Kagami is town for claiming miller, but when other ppl claim negative utility roles it's suspicious?

[pieguyn]

vote: GIF

first off, you just wanted to "see what I would do". but when I reached out to you and quite obviously informed you I wasn't the right person to push, there was absolutely no follow-up on it. not only that but it didn't seem to affect your read in any way at all given

you didn't even comment on it

second, do you actually think "trying to figure stuff out" is a good reason to townread zmuffin? especially given how early it is on D1?

this seems like you're just BS'ing as opposed to actually scumhunting

[pieguyn]

holy shit this site is lagging way too much brb

[pieguyn]

I want to know what we're doing with varsoon. If I vote him I get stuck.

I'm basically certain he's scum, but now that sakura has done her thing, I imagine people will want to wait for tomorrow. =\

curious, why is Varsoon scum?

I've played against scum muffin thrice, and I still don't know why GiF's giving him a townread so easily.

THIS
wanna vote GIF with me?

[pieguyn]

Kagami is town I think

@bork:

what's your read on GIF?

[pieguyn]

NS what's your read on Kagami

[pieguyn]

my role is such that, unless scum have X (where X counters me) and use it on me, i'm gonna be around until i'm lynched or endgame - i'd rather be conftown than have to deal with the paranoia that will inevitably surface with me regardless of how obvtown i am

what kind of question is this, anyway?

if you rolled scum against me again I am going to cry in a hole and die

this reminds me of those posts you kept making in games like marketplace and NY169 where you kept declaring yourself "obvtown" or "this is my towngame" even though it really wasn't. it also lacks a lot of the righteous indignation I associate with whenever you say this as town (AOT - "I dare scum to try and lynch me")

are you using "conftown" literally here?

One of the scum was voteless last game unless they used a card

didn't Sakura outright claim alignment cop already? she's town unless FG put in a scum alignment cop just to fuck with us

[pieguyn]

GIF I SEE YOU IGNORING ME

GET IN HERE AND ANSWER MY QUESTIONS

[pieguyn]

I can't believe I'm actually keeping up with this thread

I was literally asleep till page 2 came up. I am so glad I woke up in time for this shit

[pieguyn]

GIF quit hiding and answer my questions plz

vote: GIF

first off, you just wanted to "see what I would do". but when I reached out to you and quite obviously informed you I wasn't the right person to push, there was absolutely no follow-up on it. not only that but it didn't seem to affect your read in any way at all given

you didn't even comment on it

second, do you actually think "trying to figure stuff out" is a good reason to townread zmuffin? especially given how early it is on D1?

this seems like you're just BS'ing as opposed to actually scumhunting

Why is GiF still being voted after he has stated that he used a spellcard to ensure i live tonight?

I wouldn't put it past him to do smth like this as scum so I still wanna look into it

[pieguyn]

@GIF:

this is starting to tick me off. why do you keep ignoring me?

[pieguyn]

Why would I even RVS at that point in the game anyways? It seems like everyone was going over how GiF can be scum or not. Me continuing on RVS would have been counter productive. Me claiming my vote counts as two so I don't surprise anyone. I'm already even curious about you.

Why point me out and not even vote?

Not even any discussion shifting from GiF suspicion to me. Everyone else voting me I am town reading.

this is a BLATANT MISREP. NS was voting Gaiden (who he was scumreading) when he pointed you out, and now he's, guess what? VOTING YOU.

also, way to dodge everything else in the game. your jump on NS is opportunistic as fuck, twisting evidence around to suit your needs, without reading into any of his actual posts. and the only other thing you comment on is a defense of GIF?

you're scum who's scared as fuck at the start of the game aren't you

vote: RB

inb4 RB + GIF scumteam

[pieguyn]

and the only other thing you comment on is a defense of GIF?

missed the second post sry

point still stands though. also, NS townhunts, not scumhunts. read the thread. why are you trying to throw blame on him for smth like that?

[pieguyn]

Don't like pieguy

mind explaining why not?

I dont even know

I'm freaking out because noone's lookinig really town to me yet

Try harder.

bork is obvtown

Sakura is town with a cop thing

I'm town for many good reasons

Gaiden is probably town

UNVOTE: Gaiden

explain all of these

also, what happened to you needing to practice surviving death tunnels? instead you're actively avoiding me. not to mention you're not even townreading me. why would you need "energy" to interact and possibly get a read on someone who you apparently don't have one on?

[pieguyn]

1. if no post of his shifts his read of Gaiden less scummy than you, WHY WERE YOU SURPRISED THAT HE DIDN'T VOTE YOU WHEN HE FIRST CALLED YOU OUT? THAT STATEMENT LITERALLY CONTRADICTS ITSELF.
2. don't you imagine that the post where he voted you could be taken as him putting you above Gaiden on his scumlist?
3. suppose you have 2 scumreads, 1 with 0 votes and 1 with 3 votes. why would you pick the one with 0 votes as opposed to adding pressure to your scumread with 3 votes already? that argument is invalid and I find it hard to believe that's the best you can come up with out of 14 pages of content. on the other hand, it makes more sense as an excuse to jump onto the wagon

[pieguyn]

also gun to the head, read on GIF

[pieguyn]

1. me independently scumreading RB and GIF and RB conveniently "not knowing" about GIF
2. it wasn't entirely serious. RB and GIF both play all the time on my homesite and if they're both scum, it'd basically be a repeat of the first game where GIF was scum with someone else from my homesite (DakeDekaane)

you saying that implies you think other reads don't make sense, right? if so, which ones?

btw if you're really worried about me being scum here, don't. I'm at least as town as vezok \o/

[pieguyn]

Yes that's true, but also there was a mini wagon on me so it also seemed opportunistic. You only see my vote as an excuse to jump on the wagon, but why don't you read his too?

bc his reasons were good and I agreed with them. yours on the other hand sucked and didn't feel legitimate

I would probably vote the one with 3 votes. Although I don't consider a person who has 2 vote a wagon.

says the guy attacking NS for doing the same thing

Town. Very open to discussion. Protecting Sakura.

>GIF is open to discussion
>GIF didn't discuss anything about the actual game till a few pages ago

and what do you make of the discussion about GIF's spellcard possibly not being what he said it was (especially him not bolding Sakura's name)?

you saying that implies you think other reads don't make sense, right? if so, which ones?

no, not other ones

just how you went from not wanting to let up on gif to gif not giving you answers again to you unvoting gif for rb

I still don't wanna let up on GIF. I voted RB bc I'm more sure about him and he's the bigger wagon

now that I think about it, why would you tell me what you're looking for in scum-me before you ask this question? all it does if I really am scum is tell me what I'm doing wrong so I can fix it 0.0

this is a BLATANT MISREP. NS was voting Gaiden (who he was scumreading) when he pointed you out, and now he's, guess what? VOTING YOU.

Do you actually think it is more likely that:

1) RB saw NS was voting him and decided to attack him anyway for not voting him in the hope that nobody would see it
2) RB just didn't read ahead

while him not realizing NS voted him makes sense if he just didn't read ahead, the point is still NS was voting one of his scumreads and so the fact he didn't vote RB shouldn't have been an issue. plus "if you're scumreading me, why aren't you voting me?!?!" is an easy angle for scum to push to discredit ppl voting them, so I wanna look into it

[pieguyn]

Are you a double-voter for the whole game?

hi
why does this zmuffin feel like titan zmuffin?

[pieguyn]

bork how do you like the chance GIF's spellcard on Sakura doesn't actually do what he said it does (especially with him not bolding Sakura's name)?

[pieguyn]

He's not giving you the obvtown credit you deserve.

why do you think pieguy is obvtown?

Her reads feel very genuine to me, and somewhat high-energy.

As a more specific point, I find her narrative on me unlikely to come from scum. She opens with "kagami is exactly the kind of person to miller gambit," which flows into questioning the varsoon read, but then we get "I think kagami is town." The switch there seems very much against the path of least resistance, and represents a town mindset to me.

Was townreading her then too. I didn't mention sakura either, who is also obvtown to me.

HAH TNE I WIN THE BET

[pieguyn]

I think I was wrong about GIF. his last few posts are undoubtedly town GIF

notscience [3] - vezokpiraka, Raging Bullx2

are you all sure RB's role is a town role? bc it's announced publicly his vote is worth 2 and so it would have been obvious his vote is worth more than 1 sooner or later. also it fits as a scum role given what happened last game. in there FG had a role that gained strongman when it hammered, which is smth that draws attention to scum and requires a lot of risk. this is p much the same as that. I also had an ability last game where I could put someone's vote on someone else at the start of the day and they couldn't change it for 24 hrs which I was saving to try and force a surprise LYLO, and this ability could also fuck with LYLO if he uses it right

I'd love to write RB off as town but I can't overlook his jump on NS wagon and how a bunch of inconsistencies popped up when pushed about it. and I'm having a lot of hesistation bc I know he pushes these angles based on votes as town too > <

[pieguyn]

Where did pie go
he whined at me for not answering those silly questions and he now disappeared.

good timing \o/
where are you currently at with RB?

[pieguyn]

I don't wanna write him off as town for that either. given his last phase is infinity vote, it's basically trading in a free mislynch and a NK for 1 scum. also remember the JOAT from last game who couldn't NK unless he used a spellcard that day? given that, I think that kind of restriction is still reasonable for a scum role

[pieguyn]

wait, what the fuck?

@mod: was GIF's action in 230 formatted correctly?

[pieguyn]

who do you think the scum pushing it were?

i was fine with leaving it til at least D2 to discuss any further, but i don't really fault pieguy or anyone else for continuing to be suspicious of you today

why did you specifically mention me here? especially when you're mainly pushing on RB who pushed GIF way harder than I did?

[pieguyn]

I don't wanna reveal the reason yet :>

[pieguyn]

Also I got a light scumread on pieguy given the events of Upick Normal on our homesite, like what the fricken fuck trying to go after GiF's gambit like that when I also did a gambit on that game and sephibro kept pressing it, and sephibro was scum. Light because i doubt pie would put this much effort as scum, so a higher scumread on RB.

all I was trying to do was clear up if it was formatted correctly bc there was a shitton of confusion over it. I didn't pursue it after that. and the only reason I even asked that question at all was bc I still had a bunch of lingering paranoia after just reversing my GIF read. in retrospect it was a bad idea, but meh

This is utterly hysterical

I'm dying over here, and I guarantee you that the people in the spectator QT are having a goodchuckle over this

Pie, what do you think?

I lol'd IRL at that reads list

Hm
actually come to think of it, pieguy is being unusually passive this game

pie what are your reads so far

This has changed since i was arguing with RB, mostly coz I decided to ISO him because I wanted to make a case on him doing nothing, and surprisingly I was wrong he's actually been questioning people and stuff, I just didn't remember anything other than him pegging GiF about the spellcard use, pieguy's still a light scumread and i don't like how he's been rarely a presense now, as if "Oh hey i'm townread now i can be lazy", and if you're wondering why i'm not changing my pseudo it's because i wanna see what Suika does now that i'm not doing it. And why am I talking so awkwardly? because I doubt he will read it that way.

my sleep schedule is royally fucked atm and I keep waking up at 8 PM or later, so I haven't been able to do anything. I've been trying to fix it so I could so shit but I keep fucking up and falling asleep anyway and making it worse. which fucking sucks and I'm p sure this is one of the main reasons I'm losing motivation to play mafia (bc everything happens when I'm asleep and I can't get into the game)

[pieguyn]

also NS is town as shit and I will find anyone who puts pressure on him irl and bind them into submission

[pieguyn]

sure. what do you wanna talk about?

[pieguyn]

also I need to rethink RB. I suddenly had this feeling where I stopped believing he'd flip mafia. I'll do that later

@Lily:

is the way Gaiden is here similar to the way he played last game?

[pieguyn]

What do you think about the game in general? What do you think about what you know about my role? What do you think about RB's blaming me for Gaiden's vote? What do you think about Gaiden's Unvote? What do you think about Varsoon's latest posts? What is your favorite pie flavor?

this is definitely a "too many townreads" kind of game. I have like 9 or 10 townreads of varying degrees on ppl and then as soon as I get a scumread they start being town. what are your current townreads?

I'm actively avoiding spending time on you bc you're already sorted in my mind. is there anything that happened wrt your role I missed?

idk. I haven't read the pages in detail yet. doing now

I'm also actively avoiding spending time on Varsoon bc we'll know his alignment tomorrow

what are your thoughts on Lily?

[pieguyn]

1) I'm pretty sure I've mentioned my townreads somewhere in my discussion and reach out to ns, so you'll find that out soon enough, the irony is im scumreading the IC
2) Just wanted general opinion, nothing new that i recall.
3) My thoughts on Lily is "Town" i mentioned this somewhere anyway.

afaik Gaiden only unvoted to keep RB off L-1? even though I disagree on the theory and prefer to keep ppl there for pressure, I know some ppl play like that so I don't see a problem with it

looking at it, idk what the hell is going on with RB's angle on you. I don't know how he missed you daycop'ing someone. however I do think it's a reasonable read to have from a town POV. it's also p interesting bc scum RB has a pattern of trying to redirect suspicion on him elsewhere or biting back at his attackers, but he's going after you who's p much the highest hanging fruit in the game which makes absolutely no sense if that's what he's trying to do. so I can't tell if that's what he's doing or if it's a town motivated thought process. if he's town, there's prob scum on his wagon bc of how easy he is to attack based on stuff like this

Lily seems way way different from the giant lurkfuck Lily from pick & ban who did p much nothing all game and so I wanna lean town on her, but I don't wanna underestimate her. is this similar to the way she played the first game?

[pieguyn]

hi NS
where are your current townreads at and why is GIF scum (or is it just bc you don't trust him)?

[pieguyn]

gomennasai Sakura-sama

I like apple pie, cherry pie (._.) and sometimes lemon meringue pie

do you think it makes sense for scum-RB to redirect attention onto you?

[pieguyn]

do you think it makes sense for scum-RB to redirect attention onto you?

He redirected attention onto me on mismatched, and i was one of the most townread ppl there,

although i tunneled him to death too so there's that.

yeah but do you think it makes sense here? and do you think he'd do the same thing as scum twice in a row?

the fact that he's pushing on a daycop is also consistent with him not fully reading the thread earlier re: vote on NS. not sure if it means anything but that's kind of interesting

[pieguyn]

I literally have no idea

I first thought he was scum but I'm having a shitton of doubts about this right now. my vote is on him bc I haven't figured out where I should put it instead and I wanna be sure about a read on him either way before moving on

[pieguyn]

@RB:

how do you think Sakura is scum after it's been p much proven she's a daycop already? like I know you know this bc of the first few posts in your ISO re: Sakura's target and then you started attacking her despite this. so what's going on?

[pieguyn]

and I wanna be sure about a read on him either way before moving on

Well you seem to already be convinced that there's no way scum RB would be playing the way he is.

no, I'm still not sure

I get the feeling I'm being apprehensive bc I misread him really bad last time we played and I don't wanna do it again

@GIF:

what's your current read on RB?

[pieguyn]

@Pie

I have you, Sakura, Hanasawa so far.

Bork, TNE and Muffin are both borderline entrants.

I don't like the speed of the Bitmap wagon though.

I'm not letting Vezok in

pedit

Bork I'm pretty sure 90% of my posts this game are "I don't trust myself to read people"

why TNE?

[pieguyn]

@zmuffin:

i would be more worried if pieguy wasn't expressing some sort of paranoia about me

if he ever forms a read on me early on, i'm going to treat it like a scum claim

first off, why do you think this after what happened in xenosaga and your read on me? given what happened in there, this seems like a really unnatural thought to have bc I was town and had a read on you out the gate (even if it was wrong)

second off, if you apparently think I'm scum why aren't you pushing me? last time you had a scumread on me you didn't hesitate to tell everyone. (fwiw I can think of an answer but I don't wanna reveal it till you answer)

what i don't really get is how you think my play so far is my scum game, and i would expect town-you to be using what you know of my scum and town games to be making a judgment here.

because your read progression on me doesn't make a lot of sense and i know you know better than this. and yes, i'm using burden of proficiency because you really should know better and i don't see where this is coming from if you're town. like, "posturing" is such a shitty excuse for voting me that i really don't know how you can think it makes sense. it's such a bad reason to think i'm scum that i honestly don't know how you can really think that as town - especially since you know this is an attribute of my town game

why are you pushing this kind of angle given what happened in xenosaga? bc you pushed me really really hard for supposedly BS'ing a scumread on you in that game and I was town there. what makes bork's read on you based on "posturing" etc. different from that?

also, I was pushing angles like this on practically everyone who was scumreading me (including you iirc) and it was wrong every single time. it feels weird you'd push an angle about him playing up paranoia about you after I pushed p much the exact same angle on you in that game and it was wrong. can I get a clarification on this plz?

[pieguyn]

for the record there's also some posts I noticed from zmuffin that looked town and one in particular I just can't see him making as scum. but I'm not sure if I should tlak about it before I get answers to my questions

[pieguyn]

I kinda liked TNE's response to me telling him to look more town

is that it? bc I think he'd be able to fake that and I don't wanna write him off as town just for that

and I think you can put Kagami in

is there anything for GIF scum besides not trusting him?

[pieguyn]

the read you formed on me had very little to do with it - i literally did not care about that - but even if it did, i was deliberately trolling for reactions in that game. i'm not doing that here.

iirc it was definitely a component in your read on me. like this post

I am scum, look at my scum-post

nothing you said here looks town

i don't believe you actually think those are good reasons to think i'm scum, and i don't believe you'd be that confident about it

oh, and further, i'm not _really_ sure how bitter you are about what happened in xenosaga (because you pretty much declared that you don't want to play with me again, and i probably wouldn't have signed up had i checked the player list in this game) so i'm giving you a little more room than i did there specifically because if you are town, i don't want to create another situation like the one in xenosaga.

this is p much what I was expecting. for the record I'm over it now. looking back on it I was really off overall in that game

why is Feirei town?

[pieguyn]

I'm p sure zmuffin is town now

first off, what Sakura said:

His arguments with you are pretty similar to his arguments he threw at Nacho, also the way he's dealing with ppl here all the "You must be out of your mind if you think this is my scum game" and "I really can't see why you don't see me being obvtown here" among others and his tone seems really similar to that game, in Land of Fantasy he kept mostly deflecting attacks rather than engaging while here he's been engaging with you and me. I don't think this is similar to Land of Fantasy it looks more similar to that game you linked.

his 1v1 with bork makes way more sense from zmuffin-town and there's a lot of parallels to his argument with Nacho in that game. he also comes up with these moonlogic reads out the ass sometimes and it feels like that's what he's doing here. there's more to it than this but I don't wanna out it yet

actually, you can target me with stuff during the day, just don't do it at night (unless your sole goal is to confirm that it's a bad idea to target me at night)

(aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand i think i've said something similar in every fakegod game i've been in now, but he keeps trolling me so whatever)

will it confirm me as town?

coz you're gonna have to figure me out from day play and day cards in this game

given the setup, this is basically him coming out and saying "HEY IF THERE'S A DAYCOP INVESTIGATE ME PLS" which would be really ballsy if he's scum given all the day abilities. this is the post I brought up earlier I can't see him doing as scum. from what I can tell he tends to fly under the radar and avoid risks like this which is basically the exact opposite of what he did here. there's a possibility he's a godfather or some shit but I don't think FG would do that and a godfather who can't be targeted at night anyway seems entirely pointless (unless he was lying about that, but it's a weird thing to lie about)

[pieguyn]

Meh, fair enough.

Why do you think I can let Kagami in?

I really am having an issue with all the Bitmap bandwagoners.

And not really for GIF. I haven't seen him scum in forever

first off, the way she's going about analyzing things seems town. in her scumgame I skimmed there was an obvious feeling of her trying to blend in better by ditching her usual theory/flavor spec and using a more traditional approach for her "scumhunting". meanwhile her play in here is 100% the usual town Kagami

there's also smth else I noticed that I don't wanna out so just trust me on this plz

[pieguyn]

There's something bothering me about pie's latest posts... but what's worse is that i can't remember any scum game where he used that tone either, i've... just never seen pie use that tone ever, so it's confusing me

there's several problems I'm having recently. first off, do you know what happened with zmuffin in xenosaga? basically I ragequit and told mastin and zmuffin I didn't wanna play with them again. but then I got over it and then when zmuffin almost didn't sign up based on that I felt like shit for almost affecting his decision to play the game.

second, I feel like I've lost a lot of motivation over the past few days. my sleep schedule is royally fucked and I keep waking up at 8 or 9 PM every day and missing everything. I've been trying to fix it but I keep falling asleep anyway and waking up later and later which makes me lose even more motivation. and on top of that I haven't had any strong scumreads all game and that makes me feel even worse bc I just know I'm missing smth

also is there smth I'm missing about Gaiden's unvote? bc I don't see what your point with it is 0.0

I don't know this pieguy doesnt feel like the "HOLY SHIT I FOUND SCUM LYNCH HIM" kind of pieguy, it's giving me weird feelings all over the place, it could be because it's a large, but i don't wanna leave any stone unturned, RB's also ignoring pie's questions, and it doesn't look like it's pinging pie's radar like when I ignore his questions =/

wait, where'd RB ignore my questions? I don't remember that. also nice reference

[pieguyn]

@TNE:

who are your current scumreads and is there any reason for Kagami null-scum besides miller claim?

[pieguyn]

gut. feirei's posts come across as pretty relaxed and open, and while feirei isn't provided massive amounts of content, she's still giving her opinion on players and answering questions in a way that's giving me town vibes. i have like no experience with feirei, though

do you have a scum read on feirei?

no I have her as null atm. I'm waiting until later to formally sort her bc of cop scan on Varsoon and I don't have an opinion either way just based on her posts so far

do you srsly have nothing to say about my townread on you?

[pieguyn]

this is where I'm currently at. I feel so lost and I don't feel strongly about any of my scumreads right now. I fking hate this. someone ask me a question > <

town:
Sakura Hana
pieguyn
notscience
Kagami
vezokpiraka
GuyInFreezer

null-town:
Hanasawa
zMuffinMan
borkjerfkin

null:
SXTLHGaiden
Feirei*
Bitmap
Varsoon* <- not interested in lynching or sorting today bc cop scan. if he's scum Feirei is town

scum:
thenewearth
Raging Bull <- I don't get what the hell he's trying to do. his pushes are really weird and it seems like msot of them are in response to ppl pushing him (NS, Sakura, Feirei). not to mention his Sakura push was after she was proven to be a daycop. it feels weird as fuck and way more OMGUSy and reactive than I'm used to from him

[pieguyn]

@Sakura:

can you explain what your point is with Gaiden's unvote? bc I still don't see it 0.0

V/LA 2 days. Holy week and shiz

hi
if you're still here answer my question plz

@TNE:

who are your current scumreads and is there any reason for Kagami null-scum besides miller claim?

[pieguyn]

SAKURA

also is there smth I'm missing about Gaiden's unvote? bc I don't see what your point with it is 0.0

[pieguyn]

i rarely, if ever, comment on town reads on me (i have two reasons i don't do this that i may or may not explain at some point in time)

i suppose could break down your reasons and explain which ones are or aren't correct but i don't see a reason to at this juncture since it's unnecessary and just creates noise

no I meant how you said you'd consider it a scumclaim if I ever had an early read on you. and then you didn't say anything when I announced my townread

do you think his attack on me is coming from a town mindset? or where is this read coming from?

that's part of it. I think his read on you is def a reasonable read to have from a town POV even though I disagree with it. it felt like he was legitimately frustrated and/or didn't understand why you were pushing some of the angles you were pushing and the way he was engaging you seemed like it came from an angle of trying to figure you out although this is mostly gut. in particular his reaction to your point about you expecting him to read you right reminds me of what happened to me in xenosaga and how it was like almost entirely town who had problems with that angle. also, if you really are town, I'm fairly certain scum would try to mostly avoid you this game for ~reasons~ I'd rather not explain although you prob know what I'm talking about

his role also leans town and the way he went about the discussion with GIF backs it up although he could be faking that shit. overall it's kind of a weak read and he might be better off in null

what's your read on TNE?

[pieguyn]

how does that affect your read on RB tho? you were bringing it up in your readslist questioning your read on RB bc of it

[pieguyn]

Not sure, like it feels that if Gaiden is scum he wanted to jump off wagon to not be accused of a mislynch.

I'm p sure this works regardless of RB's alignment. if they're both scum then Gaiden would be trying to derail the RB wagon. do you disagree?

it was fairly obvious what you were going for, and since i know it's designed for reactions, there's no point in me giving a fake reaction to something i know is almost certainly a reaction test. if anything, the fact that i didn't react to it should tell you that i'm town, because i sure as fuck could have faked a reaction to it if i were scum

fyi that was a serious read. sry for any confusion

@bork:

do you think zmuffin would make posts like 158 and 201 as scum? (for context, Sakura's daycop was 188) bc that practically goes so far as saying "if you're a daycop investigate me plz". he's drawing a shitton of attention onto himself in a way I don't think he would as scum. ofc there's always the possibility he's manipulating his meta to get a townread from me, but he'd be completely fucked if a daycop actually investigated him

[pieguyn]

I think I was wrong about RB. this level of indignation is RB town

vote: bitmap

[pieguyn]

I feel so lost right now. I literally have no idea what to do

[pieguyn]

atm I have townreads on everyone besides {Gaiden, Bitmap, Varsoon, TNE}

how does your scumpool compare with that? I think I need to go rework my reads bc I get the feeling I have too many in my town/null-town pile and this feels way too easy

[pieguyn]

Pretty similar except with Feirei instead of TNE.

explain TNE town plz. bc I don't get the feeling he's trying to do anything this game and afaik he's usually more confrontational than this. and why Feirei?

Feirei's replace out sucks.

is this on an alignment basis or does it just suck?

what's your read on TNE?

[pieguyn]

elaborate

because i see frustration at the vote on him by feirei, but i don't see town in his reaction

it's a meta read. RB and I play all the time on my homesite. scum RB generally doesn't get that pissed off or indignated at ppl who push him, and instead tries to manipulate them and/or redirect attention elsewhere in one way or another. the level of indignation he showed re: feirei is way over the top and is way stronger than anything I've seen from him before and so it v strongly points to town RB. (this used to work the other way around too but it got broke in the last game we played, I assume bc he got used to me tunneling him every game)

[pieguyn]

@TNE:

ok so I don't really see how RB is scum.

And I don't even get how the wagon started.

Can someone please explain?

why were you townreading RB at this point?

[pieguyn]

vote: TNE

also that role makes a lot of sense with a public IC in the game. investigate IC -> find out if sane or insane

[pieguyn]

the level of indignation he showed re: feirei is way over the top and is way stronger than anything I've seen from him before and so it v strongly points to town RB

two questions (or more like one question and one comment)

where did the initial scum read on him come from? (i.e. was it also meta-based or based on his play?)

and how much of 169 do you remember? because like i said, i see the frustration in being voted by feirei but i don't see the town in his reaction, and what you just said here is giving me flashbacks to the stuff generic tried to pull in 169. i dunno if you remember exactly why he was being town read by the vast majority of the player list, but faking something very simple like that is _really_ fucking easy, especially if people are expecting it of you

it was based on his play. I couldn't tell what the hell he was trying to do in terms of scumhunting and none of the pushes he was making made any sense. he was pushing on a proven daycop and voted Feirei despite the vote fuckery, and I didn't understand a lot of the angles he was actually pushing (nitpicking on votes, Sakura's Gaiden vote). his initial jump on NS was also really sketchy. I starting having a lot of hesitation bc after asking about it there were a bunch of similarities to his town game (and I didn't wanna fking read him wrong bc the last time we played I incorrectly scumread him and got him lynched D1) - he generally pushes these angles based on votes as town all the time and there was some amt of indignation showing in how he ignored ppl's roles and kept directly pressuring ppl and not giving up on the angles he was pushing, but I didn't think there was anything unfakeable in there

RB has continually demonstrated he doesn't play like this as scum (and besides that it wasn't until just now that I've actually outed this tell even though it's kind of obvious). every single time he always looks for alternative ways out of pressure besides responding directly to the ppl accusing him, but here his anger at being pushed was directly aimed towards Feirei. it's basically the exact opposite of what I'm used to seeing him do as scum, and smth I've seen him do as town several times in response to me tunneling him

why don't you think there was any town in his reaction? do you have any specific idea what you'd be looking for in a town reaction?

[pieguyn]

town:
Sakura Hana
pieguyn
notscience
Kagami
vezokpiraka

null-town:
Hanasawa
VictorDeAngelo Feirei <- replace out and anger around it seemed town. not interested in lynching today bc Sakura cop
zMuffinMan
Raging Bull

SXTLHGaiden
Bitmap <- probably town role, not interested in lynching today
borkjerfkin
GuyInFreezer <- looking back at his posts I think he'd be able to fake the reaction to me pushing him. besides that the gambit he did re: Sakura reads town but I wouldn't put it past him to pull that shit as scum and I could easily see it as a scum gambit to keep protections off Sakura. if she dies they could just write it off as "lol strongman" or smth (GIF had a strongman worth 5 kills last game). the more I think about it, the more I wanna say his role is a scum role although idk why he'd blatantly claim it if it was (PGO last game is way more alignment neutral). the way TNE is pushing him is similar to the way TNE-scum constantly busses his teammates for sketchy reasons although this is predicated on TNE scum. need more data here

scum:
thenewearth
Varsoon <- I don't like how he keeps blatantly jumping on every single wagon ever. also, he's not doing much for someone who's supposed to be "confirmed" tomorrow. not interested in lynching today bc Sakura cop

this is where I'm currently at btw. I'm trying to rework my reads bc I know I had too many in my town/null-town pile especially with Bitmap cop claim. if I had to take a guess I'd say {TNE, Varsoon, GIF} although at this point GIF-scum is almost entirely predicated around TNE-scum and I don't feel strongly about any of this right now

[pieguyn]

Oh ok.

VOTE: Gaiden

why this vote and how'd you go from Gaiden-town bc the way he's not doing anything earlier to here?

[pieguyn]

Bc his spellcard do the same (and weaker) thing as my ability do.

why do you think they both can't be town roles? especially given Sakura x Bitmap. and iirc the last game had 2 race cops

also what Sakura said

To say without a bias, it's too early to tell
Determination is all it takes to escape one's meta quite easily. It's just a matter of how long it will last.

you didn't seem to have any problems meta reading NS earlier. what changed from there to here?

also speaking of that you went from TNE-scum to TNE-town based on meta earlier. where the hell did this assumption go when you changed your read on him? and are you still townreading him?

[pieguyn]

@pie: I agree with pretty much that whole read list except i'd rank muffin and GiF higher and Gaiden as scum, tho Gaiden is mostly a gut thing at this point.

why GIF?

[pieguyn]

He asked about an angle that I wasn't townreading him for.
honestly the only reason I'm townreading ns right now is because he reminds me of hider mafia ns.

if you're townreading him why the fuck were you pushing him earlier? it definitely didn't seem like it based on your questioning

Also I never scumread TNE. I started with a townread on him but it got stale and now I'm compromising him.

it looked like you were scumreading him based on this post:

Guys wtf...

I sleep for 1 day and 5 pages ALREADY?!

Like... Wtf...

Are you scum :<

can you clarify plz?

[pieguyn]

Actually while youre here explain your tne scumread

it doesn't seem like he's trying to do anything this game. I don't remember anything he's done so far and he's usually way more confrontational than this (e.g. touhou IN). it's a really weak read but I have townreads on a lot of ppl and at this point it's the best thing I can think of

[pieguyn]

also answer my 1st question plz

why do you think they both can't be town roles? especially given Sakura x Bitmap. and iirc the last game had 2 race cops

[pieguyn]

and speaking of compromise lynches why'd you pick TNE over someone like RB who you said had to die at whatever point anyway? the wagons at that point were p even and there was definitely room for another lynch at that point

and do you have any scumreads? bc looking through your ISO I can't find any scumreads. at all. and you've had townreads on like everyone in the game at some point and I don't know where you stand in terms of scumreads or POE. and looking back on it you never followed up on the reactions to your Sakura gambit - who were the ppl who tried to push it in a non-town-motivated way?

[pieguyn]

some of this is probably me being butthurt, but I have shit to say regarding this setup.

first off, godfather is a pretty much shit role. This is why. It is never a good theory play to lynch a cop inno - and so all a GF does is make town insta lose if he happens to get investigate, which is what happened here. it's adding a lot of luck in for absolutely no reason and it would have been infinitely more effective for both sides if scum had one of those towncred roles that had really good looking claims (which zmuffin had said earlier)

as a result of that, I was putting off lynching obv scum varsoon until D2. so theoretically there was literally no reason to lynch him all game, despite being really really obvious. We got punched in the face for making an otherwise excellent move, investigating scum on D1.

second, the QT spy. the more I think about it, I realize it's complete bullshit. it literally screwed over all the benefits of that masonry and, again,punished us for trying to play well. The advantage of having a masonry is misdirection - by keeping it secret, we can try to survive a long time as conf town and set up power plays to screw scum over. However, thanks to that, there was liteally no way we could do that. Scum not only had allthat info, but they knew our exact roles. This is even more so the case when NS had an autowin card at 4p LYLO - it dangled the idea of flying under the radar in our face and then proceeded to spit on us when we went for it.

A large part of my play this game had to do with that. I noticed several off notes about zmuffin late D1 that I didn't pursue, EXPLICITLY BECAUSE I was trying to get to D2 - and I would have balls to the walled much much more if I knew of this.

FG also asked why I didn't just claim and ask for protection -but that doesn't work either since town didn't have any protective roles. so me and NS were completely fucked no matter what happened.

Kagami also had a good point regarding yukari - scum can get 2 fucking godfathers. which is pretty much bullshit and not fun at all, especially when one already caused an auto loss for town. I think having scum vig is also swingy as fuck on scum side and really unexpected on town side although it is a creative role.

I do love how creative the setup was, but when it came to how it ran, I think it, overall, consistently punished good play on the town side by a lot, which is p much complete bullshit and is smth no setup should do to this extent. I obv made a lot of missteps, but even if I thought things through harder, I do not think I could have accounted for all the shit the setup was throwing at us.

to elaborate on the first point, I did call varsoon godfather in dead qt. it was so obvious and I was headdesking because scum obviously let Sakura get that inno - why would they do that? But that is the point - it is literally just that bad of a theory play to lynch a cop inno.

feel free to ignore all this if you disagree, im not a dedicated setup designer or anything, these are just my thoughts from a gameplay POV.

gg

[pieguyn]

fwiw I did enjoy the actual game when I was still in it. I'm just mad as fuck over the setup