Newbie 1497 (Game Over)

[Aquanim]

Your analogy is terrible in how your suspicions add up to scumreads. There are things which people write or do that make one pause, yes, which are not necessarily good or bad, because one person might interpret things differently than another, but that is the thing: you have to interpret whether what you have read or feel is good, bad, or neutral. Hopefully, when you get your suspicions/strikes up, you decide to look at them, think, "Yeah, that is scummish behavior" and that becomes your scumread. But to say you have noticed things, have either assigned them neutral values or no values, and thus interpret those null values into a scumread, that reads to me as dishonest. This is where I say the image thing comes in, because you can just say you thought the evidence pointed toward x, but instead you try to say all the evidence you find has no good/bad value, yet you still point toward x.

I like being cautious. I do not think I necessarily need to be, but I like to be.

OK, I'm done with this, I'm already the most probable D1 lynch. I can't continue defending myself because I'm doing a horrible job of it and I'm just gonna make myself an even easier D1 lynch. Saying I disliked something the IC did was clearly a very bad idea, I'll make sure I don't make this mistake in the future.

I'm also gonna say I'm struggling to get into this game. I have at least 4/5 people who are suspicious of me right now, which puts me in an awkward spot. I don't really want to scum-hunt against Aquanim/Thor because OMGUS. Same thing will be said should I go for Madonna/Tr1ckster. No point going after Hemp because that seems a waste of time, I town-read NM after his defending of me against the majority. That leaves my options limited to someone who barely posts, and someone who hasn't posted anything but prod dodges so far.

I think I'm going to be a big distraction for town throughout D1. You can lynch me now.

BBT, if you're town then do keep trying. I promise you I am reading your posts, if not objectively, then at least keeping the possibility in mind that I am wrong.

The only thing making me really doubt my read on her is that if she, NM, and BBT were scum together, why would NM change the direction of the vote from BBT to Madonna? It's possible he's pretty sure a train on Madonna won't get anywhere and he's distancing... but I doubt it.

So I think the likeliest probabilities are that BBT and NM or BBT and Madonna can be scum together... but not all three..

Uh... correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm pretty sure this setup can't have three scum.

@Thor what do you think of Madonna right now?

She was a strong town lean, now she's down to a mild one. I don't really see the logic of the wagon on her at this stage, but am fine with it happening.

Can you explain to me why you're fine with a wagon you don't understand the argument/logic for?

I'm going to be fairly busy for the next 24 to 48 hours; I imagine I'll still post something but I'm not going to have the time for serious analysis. I'd like to have a rethink of the thread before a lynch happens, so if y'all could hold off on hammering for a day or two that would be great.

Quick note: I'm starting to get uncomfortable with regard to Tynn. Luca never really got into the thread and Hemp seems not to really know what he's doing but Tynn has no such excuses for lurking. Her current position of "vague town read by most players, but isn't really committing to anything" would be a very convenient one for scum. That doesn't exclude the possibility that she's town, but I definitely want to see more from her.

[Aquanim]

[quote="In post 324, Tr1ckster"
...

Also, you won't get far doing associative stuff like that without an actual scum flip.

You're right. It's merely speculation at this point. But I like speculating about things.[/quote]

...
I'm also relatively hesitant to start trying to ship people as scum. ...

Can you explain the discrepancy between these two posts?

[Zaicon]

Vote Count 1.9

BlueBloodedToffee (2):

Thor665, Aquanim

Madonna (2):

Not_Mafia, Tr1ckster

Not_Mafia (1):

HempHHH

Tr1ckster (1):

tynn

No Vote (3):

Belisarius, BlueBloodedToffee, Madonna

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Thursday, May 1, at 9:00 AM CDT, which is in (expired on 2014-05-01 09:00:00).

Belisarius replaces Luca Blight.

[Tr1ckster]

Uh... correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm pretty sure this setup can't have three scum.

It is?

*goes back to read setup*

Oh.. You're right. >.<

Nevermind.

Can you explain the discrepancy between these two posts?

It was early in the day then. There was little to base any groupings off of.

Since then I've seen some interesting interaction.

[Tr1ckster]

Uh... correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm pretty sure this setup can't have three scum.

It is?

*goes back to read setup*

Oh.. You're right. >.<

Nevermind.

This noted...

Forget my speculations about scum teams. >.<

[Not_Mafia]

You're an SE yet you didn't know this was a 7:2 set up?

[Tr1ckster]

You're an SE yet you didn't know this was a 7:2 set up?

I got my game setups mixed. >.<

Out of curiosity...

What does SE mean to you?

[Belisarius]

Hello. I just confirmed right before work on a Friday night so I probably won't have much of substance until tomorrow, but I looked over the thread the first time I offered to replace into this slot, and I dimly recall not liking Aquanim. Let's see if I get the same impression this read through.

[Tr1ckster]

Hello. I just confirmed right before work on a Friday night so I probably won't have much of substance until tomorrow, but I looked over the thread the first time I offered to replace into this slot, and I dimly recall not liking Aquanim. Let's see if I get the same impression this read through.

I don't like that he posts a lot of questions and not many answers, but he seems town motivated-enough.

I would greatly like to see a reads list from him, though.

[Not_Mafia]

Genuine townslip or...

[Thor665]

Can you explain to me why you're fine with a wagon you don't understand the argument/logic for?

I think you're confusing 'fine with wagon' with 'fine with lynch'.

[Aquanim]

Hello. I just confirmed right before work on a Friday night so I probably won't have much of substance until tomorrow, but I looked over the thread the first time I offered to replace into this slot, and I dimly recall not liking Aquanim. Let's see if I get the same impression this read through.

I don't like that he posts a lot of questions and not many answers, but he seems town motivated-enough.

I would greatly like to see a reads list from him, though.

Sure. Be aware this is without benefit of that re-read, though.

Townish reads:
- Tr1ckster. Sheer volume of posts, and somewhat reasonable cases - though this last case on N_M is pretty questionable. Why make a case on someone while ignoring the redeeming part of their thread contribution? Given how much he's driving the thread I see him as pretty unlikely scum, despite some differences I have with his arguments.
- Not_Mafia. His posts for the last couple of pages feel about right. This is mostly a gut read. I don't have much confidence in my ability to read alignments into N_M's opening gambit so I'm largely ignoring it.

Thorish reads:
- Thor. In all seriousness though, I need to see more from Thor, probably a flip for some context, before I think I can read him with any certainty. He's done nothing so impressively towny that I think he can't be scum, nor anything so spectacularly scummy that I think he can't be town to date.

Lurkers:
- Hemp, guessing town but no great reason to think it.
- Belisarius, no data.
- Tynn, not the scummiest of these three as such but the one who most concerns me.

"Something off" reads:
- Madonna. Her attitude to me throughout the game has been... incomprehensible as far as I'm concerned, I've not been impressed with her cases, and her reluctance to push wagons or jump on them is weird too. As far as I can see there's two explanations for the above:
1) I don't understand Madonna or her reasons for doing things at all
2) Madonna is scum and making it up as she goes along, hence why so much about her play defies my understanding
I've so far been unable to eliminate either of these possibilities.
(If you'd prefer a different pronoun, I'm ok with that.)

Scummy reads:
- BlueBloodedToffee. The appeal to emotion and giving up and what have you on the last page or two are so cliché that they're causing me to second-guess myself, but I still just have fundamental problems with the fact that he's not going out looking for answers and trying to solve the game.

[Aquanim]

Can you explain to me why you're fine with a wagon you don't understand the argument/logic for?

I think you're confusing 'fine with wagon' with 'fine with lynch'.

Not really, but I think you've answered my question anyway.

[Belisarius]

Genuine townslip or...

Methinks aye. Tricks is a pretty readable player. I doubt it'd occur to him to fake frigging up which game he's posting in.

[Madonna]

Hey look, it is a not-at-all useful read list. /shrugs

1) Aquanim: Null. Has generally made good town moves, but it is noticeable he moves when it is safest for him and someone else is feeling the heat.
2) BlueBloodedToffee: Scum. Pushed really hard for a case against Thor665 using logic that should have condemned himself as well. Unable to stand by his own arguments or see contradictions, and huffs off when he cannot answer things directly.
3) HempHHH: Leaning town. Looks great on paper for a scumread, but no arguments, confusing voting, and ease at which HempHHH garnered votes made me wonder if he is just too good to be true.
4) Belisarius: Null. Seeing as his predecessors post almost nothing and voted nowhere, he is in very good, very vague position.
5) Madonna: omg scum all the way /bias
6) Not_Mafia: Weak scum. Did himself no favors in the beginning, and changed his tune as soon as he got into hot water. Has been making some helpful posts, but it also feels like he is running interference than doing his own work.
7) Thor665: Thinking town. Has made a lot of plays I find reasonable and logical, but I am going to assume the best IC gives a good game, scum or town. I dislike strong reads.
8) Tr1ckster: Weak scum. Despite having presented a leaky case against him, he has done some things which made me pause and hmm. His constant misunderstandings and an inability to keep his vote tied anywhere gives the impression he does not mind much where his vote goes.
9) Tynn: Null. Needs to post like a mofo is the concensus, as not posting is not that helpful and perhaps scummy, but has generally made good points with her posts and has done nothing off-kilter.

You, however, seem to be backing off your scumread on me, and yet you say you still have a scumread on me. So you're not looking for my buddies and backing off because you're pretty sure I'm scum, because your read on me is weaker than usual. But you're not scumreading anyone else farther either. You seem hesitant to jump on the BBT wagon and speak much of agreement but also being careful, but where was this carefulness when you voted for me? There is so much contradiction here it hurts.

I think a BBT/Madonna/NM scum team is possible -even probable. They're my strongest scum reads, at the moment.

Oh.
And,

@Madonna?

Please stop using words like "appease," "humor," and "sad." I don't like your AtE. Not only am I immune to it, it makes me scumread you stronger.

I feel I have demonstrated an ability to own up to mistakes by now and back down when the other party is a discussion makes a good point, but if you think my read should jump from scum to super-clean town, I am afraid that is silly. You would be inserting words in my quotes if you imagine being focused on you means I cannot watch other things; it is good to keep a few irons in the fire. I do no think you can use "seem" here when I have clearly stated I am hesitant in regards to joining a BlueBloodedToffee wagon too early. Again, I wanted to find a scum and was eager to dissect the smallest things out of your posts, so while I cared to do that, I was hasty.

No, I could not dare quit using words I chose to use; that would be appeasing you, Tr1ckster, and while you might not see the humor, it is sad you would conflate these small comments into AtE.

OK, I'm done with this, ...

I'm also gonna say I'm struggling to get into this game. ... I think I'm going to be a big distraction for town throughout D1. You can lynch me now.

I am sure enough people have accused you of an AtE, so I am sure you have heard how bad that is. But let us pretend you are legitimately ready to quit! Yes, Mafia can be hard. Mafia can be frustrating. Yes, you can die the first day. These are all things you need to accept, and if things get to you, take a walk, ignore the thread for a day; I know I do! And hopefully, you can see the appeal of the game, why you signed up here, and play as best you can to win.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

2) BlueBloodedToffee:

Scum. Pushed really hard for a case against Thor665 using logic that should have condemned himself as well.

Unable to stand by his own arguments or see contradictions, and huffs off when he cannot answer things directly.

I am sure enough people have accused you of an AtE, so I am sure you have heard how bad that is. But let us pretend you are legitimately ready to quit! Yes, Mafia can be hard. Mafia can be frustrating. Yes, you can die the first day. These are all things you need to accept, and if things get to you, take a walk, ignore the thread for a day; I know I do! And hopefully, you can see the appeal of the game, why you signed up here, and play as best you can to win.

Yeah, as I have stated I did not mean that post to come across in the way it did. I can see how it looks like an AtE, if I knew about this I'm sure I could have constructed a better post.

@Bold - What case did I make against Thor?

[Not_Mafia]

I can see Madonna/Thor scumteam

[Zaicon]

Replacing HempHHH.

[Aquanim]

I can see Madonna/Thor scumteam

Do you see any particular reason to link the two together, or are they just your two greatest scumreads?

[Not_Mafia]

Mostly that but I also see Thor distancing from Madonna. However I don't hang my hat on anything associative like that

[Aquanim]

@Not_Mafia

: Can you explain to me your townread on BBT? I'm not asking why you think Thor's reasons for voting him are poor, I'm asking you what positive reason you have to think he's town (if any).

[Not_Mafia]

I liked his early posting, the subsequent 'scummy' posting I can easily see coming from frustrated newbie town.

[Aquanim]

Could you be more specific about what you like and why it makes him town? Look, I reckon he's the most likely person to be scum in the game at the moment and you don't - so what's your argument that I'm wrong and that we should be lynching elsewhere.

[Tr1ckster]

8) Tr1ckster: Weak scum. Despite having presented a leaky case against him, he has done some things which made me pause and hmm. His constant misunderstandings and an inability to keep his vote tied anywhere gives the impression he does not mind much where his vote goes.

I use my vote to scumhunt, not to indicate who I want lynched. My vote will change position to whoever I want pressure on at the time. Yes, I want your lynch now. At this point you are scummier to me than BBT. But earlier it was a pressure vote.

Misunderstandings are a thing that happen in mafia. I usually misunderstand things.. read any of my past games as town and you'll find them filled with misunderstandings.

So. Here's what we have: You're trying to lynch me for my playstyle and my lack of communication skills?

What?!

I feel I have demonstrated an ability to own up to mistakes by now and back down when the other party is a discussion makes a good point, but if you think my read should jump from scum to super-clean town, I am afraid that is silly. You would be inserting words in my quotes if you imagine being focused on you means I cannot watch other things; it is good to keep a few irons in the fire. I do no think you can use "seem" here when I have clearly stated I am hesitant in regards to joining a BlueBloodedToffee wagon too early. Again, I wanted to find a scum and was eager to dissect the smallest things out of your posts, so while I cared to do that, I was hasty.

No, I could not dare quit using words I chose to use; that would be appeasing you, Tr1ckster, and while you might not see the humor, it is sad you would conflate these small comments into AtE.

You're right, you were hasty. But if you're still scumreading me, why don't you have your vote on me? Or one of your scumreads? No, you haven't put your vote anywhere. Why? Are you scared of an OMGUS vote back? Why are you scumreading people and then not voting for anyone?

I didn't "conflate" your words. Your words by themselves were AtE. Trying to tell me you were going to humor me? Or appease me? Yeah, that's AtE by itself. It wouldn't be "appeasing" me to fix your words. It would be losing a little bit of scummy play.

[Tr1ckster]

@Madonna

Why do you have scumreads and no vote?