Newbie 1497 (Game Over)

[Madonna]

I do not have to vote on your call, Tr1ckster. I can and will take my own sweet time; do not let it get to you.

[Tr1ckster]

I do not have to vote on your call, Tr1ckster. I can and will take my own sweet time; do not let it get to you.

Hm? I'm not asking you to vote. I'm asking you to vote if you're town.

I'm asking why you aren't voting anyone if you have scumreads.

[Belisarius]

OK, here's my catchup wall/reads list all rolled into one

Spoiler: Aquanim

*Post #88 pings me. "not impossible but unlikely" is pretty wishy-washy. I think this is where I saw something big on my first readthrough, but I'm not seeing it now. Generally, when someone includes the word "but" in a sentence, it's the part after the "but" that tells you what they really mean.
*Aquanim's use of language throughout is consistent with what he's saying, and his trajectory on BBT is condign. (Yes, I say trajectory now, I've been hydraing with Ffery)
*Not liking Aquanim's reluctance to talk about townreads. That makes it awfully easy for scum to "scumread" someone out of the blue later on without appearing to change their mind, whereas town would show a reasonable thought process on

why

they changed their mind.
*Interactions with BBT appear organic and town-motivated later in the thread as well, particularly the warning not to give up. Aquanim could have said "That's a scum claim, choo choo" instead of pointing out that he's considering the possibility that he's wrong.
Conclusion: the strong scumread that I had on Aquanim when I first looked into replacing into this game isn't there now; I'm seeing as much town motivation as scum motivation in his posts. I think that the fact that I didn't see the same thing that pinged me the first time around is probably because it was too nitpicky and should be disregarded.

Spoiler: BBT

I like #83. I don't agree with any of it due to meta I have with both Thor and Madonna, but it shows a logical thought process. (Points of disagreement: townThor supported lolwagonning in Newbie 1470 and Madonna comes from a site with 24 hour deadlines)
I viscerally don't like the implied threat in #109, but this is averted in #112 where it shows BBT is cognisant of his chances of being wrong.
#175 " I haven't had anything to say. When I do, I will post. I'm not gonna post for the sake of posting." -- read as "No, I will not clutter up this thread with shit that the scum can use to muddy up the waters." I like this. I like it a lot.
as of #219, the tone used is consistent with genuine frustration at having one's nits picked. I can see town-me posting this kind of thing almost word for word.
#233: I've got to agree with Aquanim here. How the fuck is Thor probTown? Thor's an ace. He can fake any of this easily. If anything, scumThor is more dangerous than townThor is useful. Short of a cop inno, in

any

game, I trust Thor about as far as I can throw a jeep filled with Americans.
#256: I laughed too. The IC, particularly when the IC is an ace, is a pretty easy mislynch with all of the innate FUD that's

already there

without even being mentioned. In this game, I didn't even have to vote the IC to get him run up. (Granted, SD isn't anywhere near Thor's caliber, but...)
Conclusion: Town as hell.

Spoiler: Hemp

#106: 50 shades of Christ, what a scumpost. I've seen people get towncred for claiming "too lazy to read," but that's when there were 100

pages

, not 100 posts.
The rest of Hemp's ISO is just noise.
Conclusion: Maybe just lynchbait, but literally the only thing alignment-indicative I've seen is scummy as hell. This cannot be let into lylo under any circumstances even if town, and we don't have a lot of room for utility lynches in a micro.

Spoiler: Madonna

For reference, Madonna and I came from the same site where I first learned to play Mafia. Here is a MS-styled game I modded there where he was a player -- that's the source of all of my meta on him. Note that there are 24 hour deadlines over there, so there was a lot more pressure to maintain activity, so the fact that he's less of a moving force here than he was in that 2of4 is null. With a 24 hour deadline, there's more to respond to in the same timespan.
That said, Madonna's use of language in this thread is pretty consistent with the townMadonna in the link above.
#139: My first impression is that this is just a lot of fluff, but there is some analysis buried in there. I'm still not really fond of how it's hidden away in a flood of shit.
#144: I like how he's leery of the votes on lynchbait-Hemp, and at this point in ISOs, I'm reconsidering my earlier desire to slam home a lynch on Hemp D1.
I am not, conversely, liking his push on Tr1ckster. Tricks is pretty transparent, and if he is scum, it'll become apparent soon enough, whereas if he's town, well, his towngame's getting better. Tricks is a damned low priority lynch for me.
Conclusion: probScum. That's not a conclusion I like to draw, since I wanted to replace into this game specifically to play Mafia with an old buddy, and now I have to try to wash him out D1. I don't want to, but barring any world-shattering finds in later ISOs, I'm going to do it anyways.

Spoiler: Not_Mafia

#21:

"RVS is underestimated, people tend to see it as just an icebreaker and a "necessary evil" but from what I've seen in games RVS is where scum can most slip up, scum will be awkward and self conscious whereas townies won't care, look for anyone who looks forced or uneasy."

-- so he's saying here he thinks RVS is pretty great and useful, and then

immediately

proceeds to undermine it by using/claiming to use a random number generator, which

coincidentally

lands on the most anti-town possible vote to cast. I attempted to locate a single word in the dictionary which could adequately describe it, and the best I could find was "harseshit."
#72: Oh sure. Reaction test. I totally buy that. Especially when you immediately jump on lynchbait.
#287: Huzzah! A fellow gin drinker! Too bad I have to kill you.
#346: Synchs with my read; if N_M flips town and I'm still alive, I'll be re-reading N_M's ISO and very likely sheeping him posthumously. "synch" does not automatically equate to "townread" in my books, though, because I prefer scum and have been out of synch with other townies' reads more often than not. (This becomes much more noticeable in a hydra, since I know my hydra partners' alignments from the outset)

Spoiler: Thor

I can't read Thor worth shit. The best thing I can say about him is the comment I wrote in my analysis of BBT. I'm going to try a new tack this game and try to push my ace-paranoia to the side in early game, though. This means that unless I see a major blinking red flag with a middle finger on it, and the middle finger is on fire, you won't be able to interest me in a Thor lynch until lylo. With luck, maybe there won't be a lylo and I won't have to worry about it. For now I'm more interested in being

read by

Thor than I am in reading him.
To that end:

Spoiler: Tr1ckster

#30: "This is interesting" -- Why would you ever fail to elaborate on

why

it's interesting?
#37: Not liking the repetition here...
#59: I like this reaction to Thor's push for an early lynch.
#87: More repetition of "interesting" and *takes notes*. This is alarming.
#103: *takes notes* again -- Why oh why are we seeing the same filler over and over again?
116: More repetition of "interesting." Christ on a pogo stick, Mr. Spock.
#258:

"I don't want to go into D2 with a scum lynch and little to no reads elsewhere."

-- Whyever not? In what universe is a scum flip not more useful than a pile of reads, most of which are statistically likely to be wrong? I'd

love

to go into D2 with a scum lynch right out of RVS.
#263:
Conclusion: Scum. Transparently scum. WHY THE FUCK DO I HAVE SO MANY DAMNED SCUMREADS? I'm a townhunter!

Spoiler: tynn

Liking the catch of Tr1cks's cogdis in #113, I missed it entirely.
Use of language shows closeness to the positions she's taking. This is a fairly sparse ISO, so all I really have to go on is the McClish method, which has relatively few hits (There tends to be a lot of points in a McClish analysis of even a short statement, which is why running it on an entire game is an all-day job). The most significant point I've seen is that she uses the word "conversation" rather than "discussion;" the latter tends to be used to refer to a more adversarial atmosphere, whereas "conversation" indicates a more pleasant and friendly outlook on the words being exchanged. This is not in keeping with someone who is feeling hunted.
"Just say" in #166: this usually indicates information is being omitted
Use of "these" instead of "those" indicates a feeling of closeness. Likewise with "this" instead of "that." Tynn is using "these" and "this" exclusively, which is a hallmark of honest speech.

Endpoint: I can't afford a utility lynch without a scumflip first, which makes Hemp safe from my vote. Top scumreads are, in order of strength {Tr1ckster, Not_Mafia, Madonna}

Absolutely not willing to vote {BBT, Thor, tynn}

VOTE: Tr1ckster

[Thor665]

"Something off" reads:
- Madonna. Her attitude to me throughout the game has been... incomprehensible as far as I'm concerned, I've not been impressed with her cases, and her reluctance to push wagons or jump on them is weird too. As far as I can see there's two explanations for the above:
1) I don't understand Madonna or her reasons for doing things at all
2) Madonna is scum and making it up as she goes along, hence why so much about her play defies my understanding
I've so far been unable to eliminate either of these possibilities.
(If you'd prefer a different pronoun, I'm ok with that.)

Have you considered the language barrier or not? Because it looks pretty clear to me that English is not the first language there.

[Thor665]

VOTE: Tr1ckster

Wait - what happened to the slip?

[Belisarius]

That was before I read the game.

[Thor665]

How did that change the value of believing it was a town slip or in believing he wasn't a player who would fake such a slip?

[Tr1ckster]

@Beli

I think you missed the post where I said "Just because I question something/someone doesn't mean I think they're scum."

I had three scumreads.

I actually still have three scumreads. No more than you, actually.

Also, that quote? Yeah, I don't want to go into D2 with a scum lynch and no reads elsewhere because then we're at the same place as we were D1 except instead of trying to find two scumbuddies communicating, we're trying to find an SK who can behave exactly like town without worrying about making sure he distances his scumbuddy. I think you also missed the part where I said I'm not where I said my vote would be on my scummiest read at the end of the day, until then I would use it to generate reads.

From what I saw, those were your two points against me.

Anyways, like I said before, I'm fine with a Madonna, BBT, or NM lynch. Everyone else is town or null for me. By PoE everyone else is town.

[Zaicon]

Vote Count 1.10

BlueBloodedToffee (2):

Thor665, Aquanim

Madonna (2):

Not_Mafia, Tr1ckster

Tr1ckster (2):

tynn, Belisarius

Not_Mafia (1):

Knell

No Vote (2):

BlueBloodedToffee, Madonna

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Thursday, May 1, at 9:00 AM CDT, which is in (expired on 2014-05-01 09:00:00).

Knell replaces HempHHH.

[Knell]

Hey everyone.
Hello Belisarius. Good to see you.

I was following the game up to page 6 but stopped, reading.

[Knell]

Re: Trick's first question.
1. You'll find out when I catch up.
2. IRL, group gatherings. Different houses. I have a completed game here, so I suppose here as well.
3. I can give my attention. I'm important because I have a vote and I'm playing with you. Game has developed, it really depends on what my reread gives me. A mix of shorter and longer posts.
4. This would take a while to explain. I probably won't receive any prods.

[Knell]

VOTE: Tynn

[Knell]

Thor, why are you reading tynn as town?

[Knell]

Belisarius, why are you reading Tynn as town? Without using your method? Initial reading of her first game here points straight to her being scum. She's not the type that hunts for contradictions. She seems self-conscious about contributing, but doesn't seem to have much to say.

I'd like people's perspectives on this because she seems like Mafia to me, but I see no votes on her. Is my perspective skewed?

[Thor665]

Thor, why are you reading tynn as town?

Basically she hasn't said much, but everything she has said has been arguing *against* the logic of people being scum. I find that to be poor play, but it also strikes me as a town mindset - she's not looking for excuses to vote people and is challenging people's conclusions in a search for the truth.

Why, what's your take on her that makes her scummy?.

[Aquanim]

@Belisarius

:

In your Madonna read:

I am not, conversely, liking his push on Tr1ckster. Tricks is pretty transparent, and if he is scum, it'll become apparent soon enough, whereas if he's town, well, his towngame's getting better. Tricks is a damned low priority lynch for me.

into

VOTE: Tr1ckster

um... what?

Assuming you just didn't think about Madonna again after your Tr1ckster read, does your new read on Tr1ckster change your read on Madonna?

[Knell]

Well, her reads are not developing for one. In fact, I don't think she has reads. She just seems to be following a simple contradiction model. her reads in her other game has town when she started are more fluid and stream of thought, like she reported in the first game. Her pushing for activity is common for her though. I suppose she wishes to be consistent in this regardless of alignment. She has also stated she has been rereading the game alot, but nothing in the thread really indicates she has been reading or coming to new conclusions from rereading.

You have a point about her arguing the logic and not voting people. Her words weren't following her actions which bothered me some. But maybe it is just poor play?

[Knell]

Usually she always seems to have a moment where she puts things together. Or tries to game solve. But I don't see that here. Just criticism and ad hominems. Her vote hasn't moved from her RVS vote.


Ah, just looked at her other games and she rarely does anything with her vote actually. Hmm.

[Knell]

My initial read on her was aimless mafia. But a lot of this is getting explained away.

[Thor665]

Did you develop any other reads?

[Tr1ckster]

@Aqua

Beli just didn't read the thread. The two points he made against me I had already addressed. Which is why I'm not thinking he's scum. He's looking for valid things, he just didn't pay too much attention trying to catch up.

[Aquanim]

@Aqua

Beli just didn't read the thread. The two points he made against me I had already addressed. Which is why I'm not thinking he's scum. He's looking for valid things, he just didn't pay too much attention trying to catch up.

I'd still like him to revisit his Madonna read.

[Thor665]

@Aqua

Beli just didn't read the thread. The two points he made against me I had already addressed. Which is why I'm not thinking he's scum. He's looking for valid things, he just didn't pay too much attention trying to catch up.

Why do you think he's scum when the only evidence you appear to have is that he didn't read the thread/skimmed it - is that a town tell now, or am I missing something?

[Knell]

Sorry who here is not willing to vote BBT and thinks he's town?

Sides, Beli. Since I read his catch up post.

[Knell]

Did you develop any other reads?

Page 13, but I'm mentally exhausted from doing so. I have words running around in my head and half-formed ideas, but I don't have reads. I have initial impressions. but I don't have strong reasons. Tynn stood out to me, so I checked her out.