Newbie 1488: Igloo-Town Tragedy (Game Over)

[Billi bilaði]

Vote private

Same reasons as stated by dtd

Getting a strong town read on dtd

, and a weak town on Jake.

UNVOTE: Jake
I don't think he is scum. I really don't know with Jake.
VOTE: dtd

The guy whose I distrust the most.

random: What changes for you with dawn between posts 307 and 470?

[Billi bilaði]

Well I'm sticking with confirmed scum. When private flips town I'll be looking at who started the counter wagon

So, is your believe that it was very nice of me to give you my mafia-buddy by being the second on the PrivateI wagon for his lynch?

[Billi bilaði]

...You don't even question my vote which is why you were originally on my radar, a townie imo would have. When I unvoted in post 150 it's pretty obvious my vote was a reaction test. had I been scum and you just put him to L-1 I would have just rolled with it for the town cred, I am all about getting town cred as scum....

Nobody questioned your vote on PrivateI, but you questioned me on putting him to L-1.
If he had been a townie, yes, then you might "have just rolled with it for the town cred," - but he was a mafioso.
If you are one too, then you obviously did not feel too comfortable lynching your partner too early.
So, for me, this quote above doesn't hold water.

[Jake from State Farm]

Well I'm sticking with confirmed scum. When private flips town I'll be looking at who started the counter wagon

So, is your believe that it was very nice of me to give you my mafia-buddy by being the second on the PrivateI wagon for his lynch?

Huh? I'm confused what you are asking here.

[Jake from State Farm]

...You don't even question my vote which is why you were originally on my radar, a townie imo would have. When I unvoted in post 150 it's pretty obvious my vote was a reaction test. had I been scum and you just put him to L-1 I would have just rolled with it for the town cred, I am all about getting town cred as scum....

Nobody questioned your vote on PrivateI, but you questioned me on putting him to L-1.
If he had been a townie, yes, then you might "have just rolled with it for the town cred," - but he was a mafioso.
If you are one too, then you obviously did not feel too comfortable lynching your partner too early.
So, for me, this quote above doesn't hold water.

I guess I can see your point, but I'm not afraid to bus my partner.

[Billi bilaði]

btw damn you for making me do extra work, this is the part that I vowed never to do anymore cause I would do all this shit and nobody would listen to me anyway and go with some guy who just said "gut"

Bb: It wondrous how you often play the self-pity card. I don't especially feel any need to be damned. If you don't feel like anyone ever listens to your reasoning, why do you like to play this game? It can't be for the yelling that you say you are holding off of in this game?

So looking at the VCs in my history the most common is 1 scum on and 1 scum off. I know I have seen all town mislynches before but since private was scum that's obviously ruled out and I am sure there have been 2 scum on wagons but most common is 1 on and 1 off.

Bb: So, if you are in the mafia, then you played it well by being on 2 wagons with PrivateI.

If we assume that scenario scum is dtd or jk and if we assume that 2 scum on that means our pool is either Billi, random, or DDD (ddd having the worst reason to vote on the wagon)

Bb: After re-reading the whole game, I can only see DDD as an alternative to you as a mafia member. He is too slick.

innocentvillager (5) - PrivateI, randomidget, Billi bilaði, Jake from State Farm, Debonair Danny DiPietro [Lynched]
Debonair Danny DiPietro (2) - dawn_to_dusk,

innocentvillager

PrivateI (1) - jklash12


Day 2 we did have 2 nice wagons form

Jake from State Farm (3) - Debonair Danny DiPietro, randomidget, Billi bilaði
Billi bilaði (3) - Jake from State Farm, jklash12, dawn_to_dusk, private

from my pov since I know i am town, that still leaves scum in the pool of 3 (DDD, random, Billi) and had billi not made the setup comment I would probably be on DDD or random (DDD for his lousy hammer and random for ignoring billi's opportunistic voting while calling me out for mine, which it wasn't.

Bb: I believe it was opportunistic, and you scolding people for believing so doesn't help your case in my book.

Private voting Billi could have been a bus which if Billi slipped, gives the green light to bus your partner for town cred

Bb: I put him at L-1, he put me at L-1. That would be a hell of a good mafia-team.

so private flipping scum still reads Billi as scum

Bb: I am supposed to believe your statements, but you are not supposed to believe mine.

I re-read day 1 over and over and over again and still haven't seen a single town quality out of billi yet everyone town read him but me. As scum i would be fucking stupid to go after the 1 person that nobody is going to get lynched. I made that mistake in the first scum game I ever played under this Jake account and guess how that ended? badly, I lost.

Bb: So, what other account did you use? You not really a newb? Can you name me a player that has never lost?

So if I look bad for going after the choice that isn't the popular choice, I really don't give a crap because all signs to me point to Billi being scum and in the end i have to trust my gut and if that means i get lynched so be it.

Bb: Nice that people hate it when they are voted on gut but don't give a crap about voting on gut.

I so wanted to believe you were a townie as is obvious in my starting analysis of day 3, but you ignore that completely and just blow up about the mafia-tells that you so like to give out. Not a single help in trying to find out who is setting you up with the Zeph kill.

The only remote possibility, besides you, I see after re-reading the whole game is DDD. Other options don't make sense to me based on voting patters, deaths and tells. But I can't move my vote to DDD based on the tells I get from you two guys.

So, am I still damned for "making you" actually play the game, or did I read this thoroughly enough?

[Billi bilaði]

I mean that he cant even be bothered to defend himself. If I was town I wouldn't do that.

Nobody has even provided a case to defend myself against. I defended myself against DDDs weak ass reason, you didn't really give me anything,

and billi apparently wanted me and only me to respond to his earlier post since

his everyone basically ignored it yet I was the only one called out for not responding to it.

This is such a tunnel. Man. Sheesh.

[Billi bilaði]

Well I'm sticking with confirmed scum. When private flips town I'll be looking at who started the counter wagon

So, is your believe that it was very nice of me to give you my mafia-buddy by being the second on the PrivateI wagon for his lynch?

Huh? I'm confused what you are asking here.

You believe me to be the second mafioso.
So you must believe that I was very nice to give speed to the wagon that lynched PrivateI - who would have been my partner if you were right about me.

[Jake from State Farm]

I'll respond to this when I get to a computer but I never claimed to be a n00b.

[dawn_to_dusk]

Vote private

Same reasons as stated by dtd

Getting a strong town read on dtd

, and a weak town on Jake.

UNVOTE: Jake
I don't think he is scum. I really don't know with Jake.
VOTE: dtd

The guy whose I distrust the most.

random: What changes for you with dawn between posts 307 and 470?

The main thing that seemed to have changed was the lynch and private's longer post. if he is going off a scum's scum tells, that may be a reason to lynch him.

if its a gut feeling, it gets you nowhere without evidence

[Randomnamechange]

Unvote dtd

I just realized that the point made was by Private, and Private was scum. :/ sorry about that.
I trust dtd after that. It's hard to explain, but I think he reacted in a townie way.

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm visiting my parents today so I'll not do any heavy reading/responding til tomorrow.

[Jake from State Farm]

I'll say this @billi, I'm not really following the "evidence" of the game like you are because I've done that before and been right, but I have also been wrong. The "evidence" suggests you probably aren't the scum buddy, but the "evidence" also suggests ( at least according to you) that it's me. But it's not me.

I just can't get my head off the setup comment. Maybe cause I literally saw scum get caught with a similar setup comment. That plus your d1 opportunistic voting and trying to direct the doc onto you really bug me.

If I ignore all that then idk who scum is. Maybe random but idk. I've got to really sit down and read tomorrow.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Sorry, been busy, will try to post something later today but it might not be till tomorrow.

[Billi bilaði]

I'll say this @billi, I'm not really following the "evidence" of the game like you are because I've done that before and been right, but I have also been wrong. The "evidence" suggests you probably aren't the scum buddy, but the "evidence" also suggests ( at least according to you) that it's me. But it's not me.

I just can't get my head off the setup comment. Maybe cause I literally saw scum get caught with a similar setup comment. That plus your d1 opportunistic voting and trying to direct the doc onto you really bug me.

If I ignore all that then idk who scum is. Maybe random but idk.

I've got to really sit down and read tomorrow.

Please do.
I really feel that I'm going through another innocentvillager argument with a townie.
And I can of course see, that were I in your shoes, then it would be the same dilemma from that standpoint.
All the rest are playing pretty solid games with hardly any mafia-tells, and voting patterns that call out "townie" in a big way.
My suspicion, f.ex., on DDD now, after the re-read yesterday, is that it's just so perfect mafia play, with a lynching of a partner and everything.
I really need very good arguments to put my vote outside the Jake / DDD box.

UNVOTE: Jake from State Farm

[jklash12]

Billi, you said it would take some convincing to place your vote outside of Jake or DDD, is there anything else I can do to convince you that random is scum?

[Billi bilaði]

Billi, you said it would take some convincing to place your vote outside of Jake or DDD, is there anything else I can do to convince you that random is scum?

If you were a cop with a guilty-result, then you would just say so as the game would be won. So, I don't think you can know that he is a mafioso; only have a strong suspicion.

So, with only suspicions:
Why did random put the 3rd vote on PrivateI on day 2?
- There was no need for a wagon on "the mafia-partner" at that time.
- - Did he then get stuck on a fellow-wagon?
Did PrivateI then revenge-vote his partner (random) after that wagon got rolling?
- and then move away from him to put suspicion on dawn_to_dusk instead?
Why does random relieve the L-1 pressure of Jake this day (day 3)?
- is it because he is getting heat on him?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Why would an experienced killer choose him over someone else? Enlighten me

Do I even really need to outline why killing the lurkingest player that only one player has a town read on instead of a common town read is a play that requires some skill that comes with experience? Shit is pretty self-evident.

~~

Billi, are you seriously at "DDD might be scum because he's that damn good"? Because as I said earlier to DTD/jklash that's so much nonsense, no one is so good that they don't slip somehow.

[Jake from State Farm]

ok so looking at each person compared to private

JK - I don't think he is his partner because of this post - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5777547. DD voted private and 2 people piled on DDD and jk could have also instead he agreed with DD. It would be easier for scum to push DD over Private, especially new scum and JK is a newer player to this site. None of his other interactions really don't give me an idea one way or another but that vote and subsequent pressure from jk leade me to believe he's town.

DTD - DTD voting DDD because DDD voted private really stands out to me, especially since his reason for voting DDD wasn't very good. but Private putting Billi to L-1 makes me doubt they are scum together. I am not sure scum would want to be right next to each other on a mislynch (assuming billi is scum and dtd/private are the team) Also private I think gets a free pass because when Bili and myself were at 3 votes, he moves his vote to Private. so I am confident that private is not scum with dtd


I will get to some more later, but dtd imo is not the person we lynch today, jk I feel good isn't a partner and considering nobody else is suspecting him either I feel good about that one.

it's down to DDD, Random, or Billi

p.edit - killing a lurking player doesn't take skill, it takes ignorance unless scum was PR hunting or misinterpreted zephyr's posts as a doc soft claim. the zeph kill could have come from anyone but nice try

[Billi bilaði]

...Billi, are you seriously at "DDD might be scum because he's that damn good"? Because as I said earlier to DTD/jklash that's so much nonsense, no one is so good that they don't slip somehow.

How about: DDD is currently playing so well, that he can be pulling the wool over my eyes, seeing that I believe he might be the strongest player in the game?
Your slip might be that you contribute as little as possible, imho.

[Billi bilaði]

...

[jk and dtd put on the town bench]

...
it's down to DDD, Random, or Billi
...

I fully agree with this.
Look forward to the DDD, random & Billi analysis.

If everybody can give a list of strong townies, then we can focus on selecting from the rest.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

How about: DDD is currently playing so well, that he can be pulling the wool over my eyes, seeing that I believe he might be the strongest player in the game?
Your slip might be that you contribute as little as possible, imho.

I mean if you want to ignore everything else in favor of "he slightly under contributes" knock yourself out but your either vastly overstating the town credentials of everyone else and/or letting paranoia get the better of you.

DTD or Jake are my options for the day and there are compelling reasons for both; the way Jake writes DTD off as town in his latest post is just for awful reasons.

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh please enlighten us all with your reasons for your town reads.

I'm curious to hear good reasons...

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Oh please enlighten us all with your reasons for your town reads.

I'm curious to hear good reasons...

I only have one town read which is on random which I have already articulated; I have a not scum read on Billi, and a "I'm willing to give a pass for a day because there are two players who actually look like scum to me" to jklash.

[Jake from State Farm]

You only explained that he's a town read cause the kill was from an experienced player. I don't see anywhere else where you give reasons. Link please?