Touhou UPick 2 - [Game Over]

[Sakura Hana]

Also bork's slot has managed to stay in the null for day and a half, so i'm hoping Nacho can fix that.

[Varsoon]

There's a difference of agency.
Notsci didn't start talking about being neighbors/mason'd with pie until AFTER pie died and some people were suspecting him/he wanted to make a case.
At that point, I took his 1612 to be a masons crumb/claim.
Since then he's been hard-balling his case and saying it's legit by using Pie's dead-town status to give authority to his claims.
I just don't buy it. :/

[Varsoon]

What sorts of questions could you think of for Victor and Magua to get them invested and posting and transparent about their alignments?
Right now the only reason I see to suspect them is lack of activity from both slots in general, along with empty sorts of votes.
That's not really alignment-indicative, imo.
It's just shitty.

[Sakura Hana]

How did you take 1612 as a masons crumb/claim
He just stated he's hated and that pie was hated too and that both were neighbors

[Varsoon]

I thought he said that pie crumbed it.
D:

[Varsoon]

Like, that they were hated masons with a neighborhood and it should have been obvious from them strong-towning each other and a pie crumb.

[Sakura Hana]

He said pie crumbed being hated, not masons

[Sakura Hana]

Which means, you know... he needs 1 less vote to be lynched, which is a suicide ability if he's scum.

[Varsoon]

Oh. I'm kinda crumb-retarded.
So you think Scum would have an ability more like GiF's?

[Sakura Hana]

GiF's ability is what making me doubt his.
Now think about notscience being hated scum what reason did he have to state he was hated first thing D2 as opposed to... you know doing the townie thing and stating it first thing D2 which means he'll have to die before LyLo before scum takes advantage of it?

[Varsoon]

Because the 'townie' thing to do would be to claim hated early.
:l

[Varsoon]

And, I figure that scum does 'townie' things so they don't get pinned as scum.
So it's null as either alignment.
That's why claims are dumb.

[Pim]

Because the 'townie' thing to do would be to claim hated early.
:l

Just like Feirei claiming that votes stick to her after a player voted her?
NS is town and I can see his motivations clearly.

With that said, I'm done reading the game. Victor and 'GiF' are my top suspicions.
Will post the reasons later today.

[zMuffinMan]

nachoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

and magua

[zMuffinMan]

notscience isn't using meta-reliant play to convince me he's town, he's just been fricken playing to his town meta

basically mirrors what i'm thinking

the whole "well he could be playing like he's town as scum!" argument from varsoon is pretty awful

[Nachomamma8]

Also bork's slot has managed to stay in the null for day and a half, so i'm hoping Nacho can fix that.

The only thing I will fix is a lack of scum bodies in the thread.
I AM KAGURA

[Sakura Hana]

the whole "well he could be playing like he's town as scum!" argument from varsoon is pretty awful

Yeah, if it wasn't for the fact that i know he's town due to my inspect i'd have already killed him by now. It's like he's trying to look for reasons to lynch notscience regardless of what notscience is actually doing.

[Magua]

I already used a spellcard that allowed me to confirm my flavor as Cirno, the Ice Witch.

I'm trying to find a font small enough to describe how much I

care

know about this flavor, but I'm failing.

His 1v1 against GiF feels scum-sided

Is there really a 1v1, like "one of the two must be confirmed scum because of role/mechanics," or is this

notscience being an inscrutable lurker

GiF being an arrogant provocateur

something else?

Except notscience is playing to his town meta, vezok is just having a playstyle clash.

Elaborate on what notscience's town meta is. From this page and the previous, the town-thing seemed to be claiming hated, which is meh. What else?

[Sakura Hana]

Elaborate on what notscience's town meta is. From this page and the previous, the town-thing seemed to be claiming hated, which is meh. What else?

notscience is much more scared as scum than as town, he rarely provokes people and actually tries to find scum, while as town he finds town and PoE's scum, another thing is that being active is something that notscience hasnt EVER done as scum from what I've seen, he always ends up lurking unless real life stuff then he lurks as either, specially past D1. And he likes engaging with people on 1v1s when he firmly believes them to be scum, from what I see in notscience posts he's firmly believing that GiF is scum and wants to 1v1 him, which GiF rejects because he knows that this is notscience's town meta (or because he knows notscience is town), and instead decides to call it down by making himself unvotable... which for it to work he needs to be voting notscience anyway.
notscience getting paranoid about people is understandable considering he managed to get 2 scum in his townbloc last game I was with him, if I had thought he was scum i wouldn't have attempted to reach out to him, his current push for GiF feels more like a "Let's sheep pie's read on GiF because he's good at reading GiF" than "Let's 1v1 GiF because it makes me look town".
If he was scum why would he even care about pie's read on GiF? he could just have ignored that completely, of course, we have no way of knowing that it actually happened, but pie's posts D1 do seem to hint to that sort of suspicion. He's also questioned my inspect on Varsoon by saying Varsoon's a godfather which is something he does when he truly believes someone is scum and just got thwarted by a cop investigation, as he did in a newbie game where we were both part of as he had a scumread on me and the cop claims innocent on me then he starts calling me Godfather and making snarky comments like "I didn't know there were godfathers in newbie games".
As scum... he can't keep the act past Day 1, never seen him do, and will believe he's town until the day he proves me he's capable of keeping the act past Day 1.

[Sakura Hana]

Gah that came like rollover text, i'll space it in paragraphs better this time.

Elaborate on what notscience's town meta is. From this page and the previous, the town-thing seemed to be claiming hated, which is meh. What else?

notscience is much more scared as scum than as town, he rarely provokes people and actually tries to find scum, while as town he finds town and PoE's scum, another thing is that being active is something that notscience hasnt EVER done as scum from what I've seen, he always ends up lurking unless real life stuff then he lurks as either, specially past D1. And he likes engaging with people on 1v1s when he firmly believes them to be scum, from what I see in notscience posts he's firmly believing that GiF is scum and wants to 1v1 him, which GiF rejects because he knows that this is notscience's town meta (or because he knows notscience is town), and instead decides to call it down by making himself unvotable... which for it to work he needs to be voting notscience anyway.

notscience getting paranoid about people is understandable considering he managed to get 2 scum in his townbloc last game I was with him, if I had thought he was scum i wouldn't have attempted to reach out to him, his current push for GiF feels more like a "Let's sheep pie's read on GiF because he's good at reading GiF" than "Let's 1v1 GiF because it makes me look town".

If he was scum why would he even care about pie's read on GiF? he could just have ignored that completely, of course, we have no way of knowing that it actually happened, but pie's posts D1 do seem to hint to that sort of suspicion. He's also questioned my inspect on Varsoon by saying Varsoon's a godfather which is something he does when he truly believes someone is scum and just got thwarted by a cop investigation, as he did in a newbie game where we were both part of as he had a scumread on me and the cop claims innocent on me then he starts calling me Godfather and making snarky comments like "I didn't know there were godfathers in newbie games".

As scum... he can't keep the act past Day 1, never seen him do, and will believe he's town until the day he proves me he's capable of keeping the act past Day 1.

[VictorDeAngelo]

So are we just a GiF replacement away from being back to a full roster?

[Varsoon]

@Muffin: T_T You're such a meanie. I don't think my points are awful. Why are you so quick to dismiss my thinking?

@Pim: Don't forget to post those reasons.
Feirei and I claimed vote freezing at the very start of D1. iirc, Notsci didn't claim hated until D2, after Pie's death, to link him to the dead-town Pie.
Why does no one else worry about that? Like, literally all of Notsci's town posturing relies on a dead-town Pie?

@Magua: NS tried to force out a 1v1, then GiF made himself unlynchable, apparently. Also, it feels like everyone but me thinks NS is town, so I guess we've shift gears. :l

@Sakura: I guess I see what your'e saying, but I just can't rely on meta in that way. It's too exploitable.

[Sakura Hana]

@Sakura: I guess I see what your'e saying, but I just can't rely on meta in that way. It's too exploitable.

The thing that's wrong with your argument is that "If he can do that as town he can certainly do that as scum" if such a thing was true then there wouldnt ever be a way to townread someone other than cop innos and ICs, I could pretty easily go ahead and say "You may be playing to your town meta to fool me" but i've got an inno on you, which means I know you're town. Until notscience proves to me that he's capable of emulating his town meta, then his town meta is still solid, until then take a bit of occam's razor and think the simplest solution of notscience playing to his town meta isn't because he's emulating his town meta as scum, but simply, because he's town.

[Varsoon]

But I'm arguing that his play here, independent of other games, is scummy.
Catching scum is, yeah, a bit of a shot in the dark. Going randomly, you've only got a 1/3 or 1/4 chance of hitting scum most the time. You inform yourself by what's been posted in the thread and speculating on it.
I think, from what's in this thread alone, meta completely aside, that Notsci is scum.
That's why I'm voting him.

[Sakura Hana]

But I'm arguing that his play here, independent of other games, is scummy.

So if i find your play in every game scummy despite knowing is your town meta should I lynch you on every game then?