Touhou UPick 2 - [Game Over]

[VictorDeAngelo]

The why will take some time. But fortunately for you I have some time this afternoon.

Any reason you never followed up on the GiF/Pim question?

I'll answer it anyway, I'm assuming this game isn't bastardly and giving multiple votes to scum or letting them become suddenly unlynchable is bad design.

[zMuffinMan]

you can answer the other question as well if you want, but given they fall under the category of people who are being replaced or have recently been replaced, and you said you were in a state of holding off til replacements contribute more, i asked about the ones that were still in the game (at least prior to fakegod saying ns is being replaced)

[zMuffinMan]

I'm assuming this game isn't bastardly and giving multiple votes to scum or letting them become suddenly unlynchable is bad design

neither of these are outside the scope of what i'd expect from a scum role this game

fakegod gave scum some measures to win easily in lylo last game, i expect something similar in this game (probably more in this game since it seems a bit more power heavy than the last one)

whether or not it's bad design is questionable. it's role madness - it's going to be majorly swingy regardless.

(plus i've lost to functionally unlynchable scum before - it's not fun)

[VictorDeAngelo]

Why notscience (I guess this is now the poor sap who replaces into the notscience slot) is scum - part 1


His opening post contained no vote, no real content and instead vaguely said, why is no one questioning these guys. He then proceeds not to question us. He then does the same thing in 45. Given I'm town and Varsoon has investigated town it's seems clear he's simply looking to stir up trouble without getting his hands dirty.

He also questions the Kagami cop claim here and after the first few pages never follows it up again.

129 - Naked vote on Gaiden. He had discussed a load procedual stuff in his earlier post and not mentioned anything about Gaiden's play at this point (and this vote is far too late to be brushed off as rvs)

I don't buy into you-town because I'm not going to let 295 happen again

I don't buy into GIF town because Aronis could vote multiple people in frozen (as scum)

I don't buy into muffin town becausae I have no scum baseline to compare him to

I don't buy into Kagami town because I don't like the miller claim

I don't buy into bork town for the same reason I don't buy into muffin town

I don't buy into feirei town because he hasn't really done much other than lock down a vote

pedit- I miiiiiiiiiiiight be able to buy into pie-town

Notscience essentially not willing to accept any town reads early on. I don't mind that aspect but the fact he is desperately trying to find any reason to dismiss the townreads at this point in the game reads scummy.

198 - Says players with funky votes are scum when five players have been revealed to have funky votes already in the game.

200 - translation "Hey guys anyone want to go after RB early? I'd vote him if you guys do. Who's with me?"

213 - This jump on the early GiF was also very opportunistic. When you iso him you can see how hard he is trying to keep a low profile early on actually (I hadn't picked on that in my initial read through). He does not want to tread on toes at this point.

234, 241, 281 etc will show how much fluff he's produced. Don't the high postcount fool you, he seems quite low in terms of actual content.

Finally 317 (number 35 in his ISO) he produces a meaningful post. Well he takes the inititive and votes RB. I guess when ns is concerned we need a low bar. No doubt someone will step in here and start waffling about his so called town meta for umpteenth time.

I personally take 315's "I do this as town too" as a scumslip. I know some people disagree with that already.

Two quick asides since they came up:

Because Nacho and mollie and majiffy aren't in this game

Well we got one of them. Two to go.

Also glad to see you can't read the thread I've already said that Feirei likely has Cirno

pedit

^ trufax

I have no clue what a Cirno is but I don't have it. If that helps anyone then cool.

Anyhow back to the actual case.

Finally we get to the useful content portion (enjoy it - it doesn't last long). A selection

Feirei feels different tis game compared to last game. I have to determine if his presence here compared to last game is because he's town and isn;t distracted by RL or because he wants to actually assume the ruse of pro-townity as scum this game.

I guess I'm biased here since I know frei was town, next:

Gaiden came out with his character in his first post of the last game and didn't this time but I'm not sure if it's alignment indicative. I don't like his claim this game though- he claimed 1shot rolecop even with Sakura's cop claim. At the same time, I liked his latest post, but it's kinda meh regardless.

Can anyone spot his reasons for his Gaiden suspicion here cause I can't.

Varsoon in 295 made a big deal about how not RVSing made him town, but he didn't here. I need more games to look through, to see if holding his vote is alignment indicative. He also (successfully) manipulated people (me) into not using their hide. I don't know, I don't particularly like his reaction to Sakura's "cop" on him either.

I don't understand his questioning vezok's thought process either.

The highlighted is because ns has been questioning Vez's thought process for most the game yet he calls ns out for it here.

I don't really know what to do regarding muffin, i'll come back to him later

Missed this before. I'll see if he does come back to him.

I don't feel the same GIF here as I did in 295, I got the sense he was actually trying to solve things and discpute them there whereas here it's just kinda going through the motions. Like when I posted a shitposty RVS bullshit on page like 4 he yelled at me for it but most of my ISO here has kinda been meh and he hasn't really yelled at me until I said I didn't have a strong townread yet.

I was reading through borks posting, and I don't get where GIF got his "obvtown" read on bork from (granted, if GIF is scum that might explain it). I liked his stances re:me but even then part of me wonders if the scum-tactic coming into this game is to try and get an early wagon off on me before I get non-lynchable but that's my tinfoil theory so I'm not putting much stake in it (plus scumhunting is bad)

Again the more you look through his iso the more you realise that ns has spent a lot of time questioning townreads and very little time questioning actual players. Unless it's role related of course.

Kagami's a wading pool of null too.

If this was a comprehensive reads list, a comment like this would be OK. But this post wasn't so why add this. Keep this in mind for after ns flips scum (and in the event he doesn't disregard) for the Kagami case.

I still think notscience is scum and I want him to post more.

Bull's reaction to mine is bullshit

One of the weird voting styles is scum though.

I think any vig should kill vezok

Who agrees

I'm about 20% cooler anyways

So all the replacements will look at this and go, oh so this happened before Vez was confirmed IC. No! This is notscience calling for the IC to be vigged. And he's actual serious as 529 shows. And 657.

I need to get out in the sun. I will resume this later.

PEDIT:

you can answer the other question as well if you want, but given they fall under the category of people who are being replaced or have recently been replaced, and you said you were in a state of holding off til replacements contribute more, i asked about the ones that were still in the game (at least prior to fakegod saying ns is being replaced)

I was mostly avoiding producing a ton of content while people simultaneously replacing in and catching. But given but short time and the fact that we seem to be constantly replacing the playerbase right now, I don't mind as much.

I'm assuming this game isn't bastardly and giving multiple votes to scum or letting them become suddenly unlynchable is bad design

neither of these are outside the scope of what i'd expect from a scum role this game

fakegod gave scum some measures to win easily in lylo last game, i expect something similar in this game (probably more in this game since it seems a bit more power heavy than the last one)

whether or not it's bad design is questionable. it's role madness - it's going to be majorly swingy regardless.

(plus i've lost to functionally unlynchable scum before - it's not fun)

I don't about Fakegod's setups before but I do people the benefit of the doubt of assuming the setup is doing stupid things. If it does, well no harm in losing to bad design and you simply ignore that mods games in the future. If there are swingy measure for the scum at lylo then maybe it's good thing I'm dying tonight, lol.

[FakeGod]

Malakittens replaces notscience.

[Sakura Hana]

Malakittens replaces notscience.

See even mala agrees with me that notscience is town.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Maybe Malakittens wants to play scum.

[Sakura Hana]

No, mala hates scum roles, i dont think she'd have replaced into notscience's slot if she read it was a scum slot.

[VictorDeAngelo]

You know what, I'm just going ignore Sakura from this point on.

[Malakittens]

Will be catching up once home and out of class. Standby~

[Sakura Hana]

You know what, I'm just going ignore Sakura from this point on.

Yeah ignore me, because that's obviously a very pro-town thing to do... oh right you aren't town, oh well you're going to be dead tonight anyway.

[VictorDeAngelo]

You know what Sakura is actually right about one thing, ignoring her isn't really pro town. I should probably take a look at her before I die as well. But notscience/Kagami first.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Why notscience (I guess this is now the poor sap who replaces into the notscience slot) is scum - part 2

One of {Feirei/Varsoon}

Seems pretty convenient that of the whole playerlist, the two he says scum is BETWEEN just so happens to also be a neighborhood. Almost as if he found out beforehand that was a neighborhood.

This accusation against GiF is weird. How would GiF have known that Feirei/Varsoon were a neighbourhood as either alignment.

Speaking of our neighbourhood 669 is notscience trying to stir up trouble again. Because if two people are in a neighbourhood together one must scum. Wouldn't it be ironic if ns was in a neighbourhood himself and his neighbourhood buddy is killed and flips town.

Then a ton more posts about people not looking town. Cause the whole game is scum.

Given how badly notscience wants to wagon GiF I half wonder if he might be third party with a role that needs to kill GiF (i.e. some sort of hitman variant). He seems keen for GiF to die but never really thrown weight or effort behind a case and he seems really keen not to step on toes until he tries emulating his town meta later on.

Yeah he does it again in 1197 - Could that be why he's buddying everyone not scumreading him.

1389 - I also loled at him trying to use Varsoon to warn me off him.

Page 56-58 are good to read just for notscience asking for a metaread off people and not getting the right responses. I get the feeling of silver rage off him, in the sense that he seems to desperately playing to his meta (just look at how much his meta comes up in this game - it's unnatural) and not getting the instant towncred he wants.

1449 - The hop on the tne wagon because Sakura asked me to not cause I have scumread which I need accountable for later post. Classic scumplay really.

1581 - The 1v1 post. I really want to know from Mala if there is any info behind this because I was never convinced. A 1v1 without info at this junction certainly isn't townie.

@Mala

- Do you have any reason to want GiF lynched today?

I'll see what that gets me.

Anyway round 2 of sealed event start so I'll get back to this later.

[Sakura Hana]

How would GiF have known that Feirei/Varsoon were a neighbourhood as either alignment.

you/feirei - I actually expected a neighbor claim eventually and that's the reason I think one of you is scum. I'm leaning on you more because I don't remember anything special you did bit hey. It's all gonna be cleared tomorrow.

Apparently this post happened before the one you quoted.

[zMuffinMan]

586 also happened before both of those!

[VictorDeAngelo]

471 < 587 right, or is did my Maths course lie to me?

[Sakura Hana]

Considering you don't seem to know anything about touhou then let me instruct you.
GiF as well as many others here know a lot about touhou flavor
GiF knew pre-game everyone's flavor character, and obviously knew Varsoon was Cirno and you were Letty.
Anyone that knows those 2 character will immediately think both are in a neighborhood as a guess.
And it also just so happens:

We've got a neighborhood together, actually. We've got abilities we're both immune to.

That this post happened before the one you quoted.
So you clearly haven't actually read anything in the thread and you're just tunnel visioning on notscience because you're scum aiming for a mislynch.

P-Edit: The post you quoted is 663.

[Malakittens]

Alright,

I'm up to the following:

GiF states he has flavor for everyone. Which is interesting as fuck.
Kagami is a miller.
Varsoon and Fei once voted the person's vote is locked there. (Looks like GiF's vote might be stuck on Fei)

@Sak:

How is claiming miller off the bat pro-town? It's actually a role that is also decently fake claimed by scum AND town alone as gambits.

@Bok:

Hoping you are still here, but can you elaborate on 127 ? Does this mean GiF could be likely town or scum?

Hm, I got a slight townread on Sak, Bork.
Muffin slightly leaning town.
GiF and Kag not so much.
^Page 8.

So GiF's vote freezes on V, but Kagami's does not.

@RB:

How do we know GiF's thing was even a protection spell? We don't and won't know until Day 2. Don't jump to conclusions.

I don't like Gaiden.
Bork still town, Sakura likely town and maybe muffin too.
I want Hana death mainly by the lack of posting.
Fei and V, feel likely one is scum.
Rb meebe town?
^ Page 21

Vezo, your scum reads are so wrong.

KILL GIF, CONFIRMED VIG SHOT, PLS.

*sigh* this whole talking about race/roles etc is making this shit so horribly hard to read. I don't know if this is just me knowing A GOOD MAJORITY OF LACK OF FLAVOR. LIKE I KNOW ZERO OF ANIME, ZERO.

@Sak: Lily = Hana?

RB is town, stopit.

I agree w/ Fei's 1016

I Lol'd at Muffin's comment. (GiF game~)

Bork, Sakura, Muffin, RB town.
Fei maybe scum.
Gif scum.

I'm concerned w/ Kag maybe being a godfather and just claiming miller for it to be proven.

Kag forgot about the whole vote freezing shenanigans.

Gaaaaaaaah, that thing about V makes me lean town. Comment about Victor and the 'hood.

Victor should have death too~

~Day 2

Yaaaaaaay, V is town, good.

FUCKING HELL VICTOR STOP.

And my mind kinda went blank w/ all the role shit coming out. Which completely makes me unsure of everything.

Basically:

Victor is dead the following Day.
GiF is death immune..?
Varsoon & Vezo are mod confirmed town.
So many mod confirmed town and rolecops running around.

Now, I'm gone for foodz and stuff.

[zMuffinMan]

oh right, you're saying it's weird for notscience to ask why GIF grouped your slot and varsoon together before the claim <- i think the inference here is obvious (he thinks one of you is scum with GIF) even if it is based on faulty logic

[zMuffinMan]

eh, i've skimmed through the PBPA and all it did was remind me why i hate PBPAs

[VictorDeAngelo]

Considering you don't seem to know anything about touhou then let me instruct you.

As I've said before I wouldn't know what a Touhou was if I met one on the street.

GiF as well as many others here know a lot about touhou flavor
GiF knew pre-game everyone's flavor character, and obviously knew Varsoon was Cirno and you were Letty.
Anyone that knows those 2 character will immediately think both are in a neighborhood as a guess.
And it also just so happens:

We've got a neighborhood together, actually. We've got abilities we're both immune to.

That this post happened before the one you quoted.

Ok, so I hadn't realised this game was so susceptible to flavour gaming. Even so this really means that notsciences accusation is still invalid. GiF knowing about the neighbourhood was not alignment indicitive therefore the attack was forced.

So you clearly haven't actually read anything in the thread and you're just tunnel visioning on notscience because you're scum aiming for a mislynch.

Yeah I haven't read the thread and all those comments in my ISO about the thread were guesswork. I am that awesome.

P-Edit: The post you quoted is 663.

Yes but the part notscience quoted was 471.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Victor should have death too~

You got your wish, one more dead townie for the pile coming up.

FUCKING HELL VICTOR STOP.

FUCKING HELL MALAKITTENS NO!!!!

Also I think you should reveal whether you have info on GiF before the day is out or whether notscience was lying about that as well.

[Malakittens]

Ftr I read every single post. What information on GiF the one that he's lying about Pie's role?

To be completely blunt. The chances of him being scum with access to roles and QTs isn't that highly unlikely. There's a good chance we have at least a godfather due to all the damn cops and role cops running around. We probably have a SK unless bitmap was a hider which lol would be interesting w/ so many people being able to become conf town.

[VictorDeAngelo]

The 1v1 that notscience proposed at the start of day suggested he had info. Did he?

[Sakura Hana]

The 1v1 is just notscience being notscience (Tho i've never ever seen notscience engage in a 1v1 as scum)