Open 556: Fire and Ice (Over)

[Baezu]

THIS IS

NOT

TOWN TR1CKSTER

I don't care what anyone says

VOTE: Tr1ckster

I'm parking my vote here for the rest of the day

[4 Heads of Insanity]

And Trickster that doesn't change the fact that you misrepped his case

Exactly! Finally, someone is seeing the light.

Also four heads is acting scummy as fuck and veiling it as a 4 person hydra

Thanks for the accusation without quotes, examples, or really anything but your butthurt whiney ass. Really helpful for town.

Really.

THIS IS

NOT

TOWN TR1CKSTER

I don't care what anyone says

VOTE: Tr1ckster

I'm parking my vote here for the rest of the day

VOTE: Baezu

"I don't care what anyone says because I don't like listening to logic, I'm going to uselessly park my vote here without reason or a case for the rest of the day."

Can someone else say anti-town?

[Baezu]

Moon if I was trickster and I have played games with you where we were buddies as townies and I rolled scum this game I would continue playing the same way with you so that you wouldn't suspect anything. Doesn't this seem super plausible and likely?

[Moonlight]

Yup, we are.

As for whether it changed, I think so. In the previous game he got aggressive with legit reasoning. Here he is making a mountain out of a molehill, the irony being that he seems to believe that about you while considering it a scumtell.

I believe Boro is smarter than actually believing that a vote can only mean a desire to lynch someone, and I'm toying with the idea that he saw you as a threat or mislynch fodder.

I don't know, but I don't see how it can be town motivated. Assuming he's scum, how do you read NM?

I don't know what to make of NM. He seems to understand my point of view now at least, but I'm perplexed as to why this wasn't obvious to him before.

Should we pretend that buddying only happens by scum or something? It won't make it true, people are social animals and believe it or not, when two people townread each other, it's only natural for them to try to work together. >_<

And Trickster that doesn't change the fact that you misrepped his case

Exactly! Finally, someone is seeing the light.

Also four heads is acting scummy as fuck and veiling it as a 4 person hydra

Explain how they're scummy. I've liked their posts a lot and I appreciate that they present their thoughts in that form.

PEdit: Well, looks like Baezu won't be someone anyone can work with then. =/

[Moonlight]

Moon if I was trickster and I have played games with you where we were buddies as townies and I rolled scum this game I would continue playing the same way with you so that you wouldn't suspect anything. Doesn't this seem super plausible and likely?

I said exactly that in 144.

Why the fuck is everyone treating me as if I'm naive? Holy shit.

[Tr1ckster]

THIS IS

NOT

TOWN TR1CKSTER

I don't care what anyone says

VOTE: Tr1ckster

I'm parking my vote here for the rest of the day

Have you even

seen

town!Trickster? And by town!Trickster, I mean vanilla town!Trickster.

[Baezu]

Yup. Everyone jump on my wagon. I'm the easy lynch. You won't look scummy at all for pushing the easy lynch.

[Not_Mafia]

When Mastin catches up on this we're going to get the wallingest wall ever to wall

[4 Heads of Insanity]

THIS IS

NOT

TOWN TR1CKSTER

I don't care what anyone says

VOTE: Tr1ckster

I'm parking my vote here for the rest of the day

Have you even

seen

town!Trickster? And by town!Trickster, I mean vanilla town!Trickster.

Role claim?

@Baezu, the easy wagon has been Tr1ckster so far. Your comment only makes you look scummier.

Townread on Moonlight, Scumread on NM

[Baezu]

Yes! I read your game that you referenced me to where you and moon were VTs. You started that game with an RQS as well. And say what you will, PEOPLE DONT CHANGE. At least not so quickly. I've lived on this planet for 36 years and there's one thing I've learned people just don't change that quickly.

[Not_Mafia]

@ 3 headed monstrosity, I thought Viomi was an alt of Chrimi and vice versa

[4 Heads of Insanity]

Yes! I read your game that you referenced me to where you and moon were VTs. You started that game with an RQS as well. And say what you will, PEOPLE DONT CHANGE. At least not so quickly. I've lived on this planet for 36 years and there's one thing I've learned people just don't change that quickly.

I've seen it happen many, many times.

@NM Indeed, the two of us do share a body. We are very different, however.

[Moonlight]

Yes! I read your game that you referenced me to where you and moon were VTs. You started that game with an RQS as well. And say what you will, PEOPLE DONT CHANGE. At least not so quickly. I've lived on this planet for 36 years and there's one thing I've learned people just don't change that quickly.

I'm living proof that you're wrong.

There are things that don't change, sure. Certain things do and they can make a world of difference.

That game you're referring to, I felt like a completely different player by the end of it when comparing myself to how I was when I started it. I was witnessing a change I couldn't even understand the reason behind, so don't tell me that people don't change in Mafia. >_>

[idk]

-Tman's not liking the Not_Mafia wagon but keeping his vote there is really annoying, and I do not like his most recent post, specifically his reasoning for keeping his vote on N_M. If you do not think someone is suspicious, then there is no need to keep your vote on them. There's no rule saying you have to have a vote on someone at all times. You simply could've unvoted and left it at that.

So with that, I'll

VOTE: Tman2nd

Is there a rule saying I have to unvote?

Haha, no there is not, but the fact that you

out right said

that you don't like the wagon, but

still

kept your vote on it is hella scummy.

you are misrepping. my reason didn't change.

my reason is: you were focussing on something rubbish as a reason to go after someone.

Moonlight asked why I was focussing on you and not him.

The next post explained it.

my reason remains: you were focussing on something rubbish as a reason to go after someone.

And that's bad during RVS because...?

sorry, was that an apology for accusing me of changing my reason?

what does your reply even mean here?

...

it's a question.

his reply is a question.

Boro, can you please explain why using "something rubbish" is a scumtell? Walk me through what's going through your head when you encounter something like that.

If, for example, I vote you now and my provided reasoning is that football/soccer avatars are only used by scum, does that mean I'm scum?

well yeah?

Are you fucking serious?

so hang on Moonlight, you are saying that you think I'm scum because of a football avatar?

Did he say he thought you were scum?

well he does appear to be voting for me?

Votes have more uses than just to lynch.

[Tr1ckster]

Yes! I read your game that you referenced me to where you and moon were VTs. You started that game with an RQS as well. And say what you will, PEOPLE DONT CHANGE. At least not so quickly. I've lived on this planet for 36 years and there's one thing I've learned people just don't change that quickly.

So you're voting me because I didn't start the game off with RQS? O_o

FTR (and I believe I already stated this..) I only start newbie games off with that specific RQS.

Besides, why would I make it so easy to scum read me? O_o

Yes! I read your game that you referenced me to where you and moon were VTs. You started that game with an RQS as well. And say what you will, PEOPLE DONT CHANGE. At least not so quickly. I've lived on this planet for 36 years and there's one thing I've learned people just don't change that quickly.

I'm living proof that you're wrong.

There are things that don't change, sure. Certain things do and they can make a world of difference.

That game you're referring to, I felt like a completely different player by the end of it when comparing myself to how I was when I started it. I was witnessing a change I couldn't even understand the reason behind, so don't tell me that people don't change in Mafia. >_>

Agreed. Moonlight and I have both grown a lot since the beginning of that first game. (and apparently randomidget has as well.)

[Tr1ckster]

Yes! I read your game that you referenced me to where you and moon were VTs. You started that game with an RQS as well. And say what you will, PEOPLE DONT CHANGE. At least not so quickly. I've lived on this planet for 36 years and there's one thing I've learned people just don't change that quickly.

Think about this for a moment.

If I started every game as town with RQS, why on earth would I choose not to start it with RQS as scum? Would that not make it incredibly easy to scumread me?

Also: The RQS in your game was a gambit. I had no intention of starting with RQS until I learned I was cop.

Finally. You can't base a meta read off of a single game. You can't base it off of two games. You can MAYBE base it off of ten games, but even then you have to read the game you're currently in according to the circumstances.

[Tr1ckster]

All that said, I think Baezu is probs town and just paranoid to pieces. What do you say, Moon?

[4 Heads of Insanity]

My wiki is the best. Just thought if any of you wanted to meta me:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=User:Chrimi

[tman2nd]

Just as a note, I finding it harder to find scumreads in this game so far.

This is pinging hard.

Why should it? This is a game where even scum want to scumhunt.

As I mentioned before, I townread trick, but I'd like Baezu to summarize his argument against Trick for me. Or anyone else who scumreads Trick.

I'm satisfied with 4 heads' response, but I still have some hesitation about them. I think at this point, I'd like to do an ISO on everyone.

[Moonlight]

@Tricks: I agree, and the fact that you townread her attack makes me more confident about my read on you.

I'll explain for those who have trouble understanding how I think.

In this setup, the one good thing for Town is that scum do

not

have that much information. Baezu is going to look bad if Tricks flips Town at any point, whereas if she was scum she wouldn't even know his alignment unless she was scum with him.

Which leads to the question: "Why are you after Boro (and to a degree NM), then? Wouldn't they look bad?". Yeah, but Boro's timing looks strange.

His 96 came after NM had reacted to the wagon. In 98, he says Tricks has been buddying me, while ignoring that he indirectly buddied NM himself with that vote. He also called misrep on something that looks like a misunderstanding and has been continually reminding us that the case on NM is rubbish.

I see a strange association there and I might be reading too much into it, but it's at least something worth pressing on in my opinion.

[Tr1ckster]

Just as a note, I finding it harder to find scumreads in this game so far.

This is pinging hard.

Why should it? This is a game where even scum want to scumhunt.

Why should it not? Yes, you want to scumhunt... but town will do a lot of that for you. You just have to analyze things at the end of the day with your partner. It's far easier for you.

As I mentioned before, I townread trick, but I'd like Baezu to summarize his argument against Trick for me. Or anyone else who scumreads Trick.

Her argument against me is that I didn't start the game off with RVS and I haven't revealed using a gambit yet.

I'm satisfied with 4 heads' response, but I still have some hesitation about them. I think at this point, I'd like to do an ISO on everyone.

Just do it and then tell us your results afterwards. Don't tell everyone how much you scumhunt, show us by actually scumhunting.

[Zephyrus]

I think Baezu is looking at the previous game she modded to much... I mean if Trick doesn't play the same way, it's because of the setup. Every game is a different game and setup. He doesn't do RQS, doesn't make him a scum.

[Zephyrus]

VOTE: 4 Heads of Insanity

I rather see the hydra lynch on d1, not because they're scummy, because I don't want to deal with hydras. Period.

[Moonlight]

Sure, let's fucking lynch anyone we don't like instead of lynching who we believe is more likely to flip scum.

First Boro sees "scumminess" in things he doesn't like, now Zeph. I'm starting to doubt my read on Boro as a result, because I didn't want to think of the possibility that a Townie would want to lynch someone just out of dislike, but I guess I have to consider it unless both Boro and Zeph are scum.

What do I even do in this situation... I'm totally against policy lynches but this is starting to get insane.

I'll sleep on it, but not before begging any Townie that reads this to carefully reconsider what separates Town and scum. Forget tells, forget what you think you know, break the game down to its very core and understand. I don't give a shit if you read this as me using AtE to earn towncred and whatnot, that's fine. Just don't throw the game, please.

[4 Heads of Insanity]

VOTE: 4 Heads of Insanity

I rather see the hydra lynch on d1, not because they're scummy, because I don't want to deal with hydras. Period.

So you'd rather lynch hydra over scum?

That's called being a

horrible fucking player who needs to replace out if you can't handle how the game works.

Go fuck yourself too, buddy.