Micro 318: AP's Stolen Setup (GAME OVER)

toolenduso · Post Post #400 (ISO) » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:21 pm

In post 398, toolenduso wrote:
This game's setup:

5x VT
1x Town IC
1x Town 1s BP

1x Mafia Rolecop

1x Mafia ??? (probably goon)

That should be:

1x Mafia 1s Rolecop

MTD · Post Post #401 (ISO) » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:36 pm

In post 399, toolenduso wrote:@TV and Jingle, I would like you to respond specifically to this point I made in my first post of the day:

In post 385, toolenduso wrote:
In post 381, MTD wrote:Srsly, either you just scumclaimed when there is still a day to go or Guyett faked a guilty as town, I can't get either of the two into my head.

Let's look at this from the point of view of MTD being town:

-Tool scumclaiming is a possibility, but MTD doesn't know why I would do it
-Guyett faked a guilty as town...
which means that scum has to be in {tool, TV, Jingle}.

The bolded would be
impossible if MTD were town
. From townMTD's point of view, I could be scum, but how could Jingle or TV be scum if neither of them hammered MTD when he was at L-1?

Now
that
is a scumslip.

Oh let me answer to this as well.

Yes, I didn't really think about that point then, but it doesn't change anything.

Now how is that a scumslip?

This doesn't make any sense with me as scum either.

MTD · Post Post #402 (ISO) » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:39 pm

In post 400, toolenduso wrote:
In post 398, toolenduso wrote:
This game's setup:

5x VT
1x Town IC
1x Town 1s BP

1x Mafia Rolecop

1x Mafia ??? (probably goon)
That should be:

1x Mafia 1s Rolecop

So let me get this straight:
You are currently comparing an IC & 1-shot BP to Cop & Doc and Doc & Bodyguard?
Seriously?

toolenduso · Post Post #403 (ISO) » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:44 pm

In post 401, MTD wrote:Now how is that a scumslip?

Because it shows that you tried and failed to look at the game from a townie's point of view.

In post 402, MTD wrote:So let me get this straight:
You are currently comparing an IC & 1-shot BP to Cop & Doc and Doc & Bodyguard?
Seriously?

Yeah I'm not going to trust you to be objective about setup spec, and TV and Jingle shouldn't either. Let's let them come to their own conclusions, OK scum?

Turkish Van · Post Post #404 (ISO) » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:01 pm

Not in a hurry to vote, but Mala and I agree that we won't drag this out more than another 72 hours.

tool, how would you expect town-MTD to react to your ploy?

Dual Firestarter/Guyett-MTD ISO readthrough:

In post 190, MTD wrote:Ok, I will not say much about Firestarter, as I feel everything has been said for now, now we wait for content.
I am somewhat compelled to vote Lucky, but I am still not sure, as just going for that hammer is, well idk, but that's WIFOM, so maybe Lucky, why did you quickhammer and not wait for Fire to answer? It's not like we had no time...

I don't see this from a buddy. Scum buddy saddled with a potential mislynch is likely getting themselves on record as being against that lurkaderp behavior.

In post 234, MTD wrote:Also, obviously I agree Firestarter needs to get in here. Yesterday evening has passed last time I checked. On the other hand I don't quite see that as a reason to vote him right now, as it doesn't seem like it's necessarily a scum tactic and we really shouldn't policy lynch at this point.

Less clear here, but sentiment was still against Firestarter. A Firestarter scum lynch at that junction gets MTD strung up the next day.

MTD makes a point of greeting Guyett, Guyett puts town-Lucky at L-1, but then basically sets up for an MTD bus almost immediately thereafter? He knows they're one day from XyLo with a Lucky lynch; why risk 3p LyLo as a lurker slot?

Then we hit yesterday, at which point I'd assume everything's basically scripted anyways.

As far as this:

In post 399, toolenduso wrote:@TV and Jingle, I would like you to respond specifically to this point I made in my first post of the day:

In post 385, toolenduso wrote:
In post 381, MTD wrote:Srsly, either you just scumclaimed when there is still a day to go or Guyett faked a guilty as town, I can't get either of the two into my head.

Let's look at this from the point of view of MTD being town:

-Tool scumclaiming is a possibility, but MTD doesn't know why I would do it
-Guyett faked a guilty as town...
which means that scum has to be in {tool, TV, Jingle}.

The bolded would be
impossible if MTD were town
. From townMTD's point of view, I could be scum, but how could Jingle or TV be scum if neither of them hammered MTD when he was at L-1?

Now
that
is a scumslip.

MTD says he can't wrap his head around either possibility. You claiming scum before the game's over or Guyett being town having faked a guilty on known-town-MTD implying that we or Jingle failed to hammer town-MTD. He's not saying one of those must be true; he's saying he can't believe either is true. I don't think this is a slip.

Turkish Van · Post Post #405 (ISO) » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:01 pm

...crap, ^ is --PA

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #406 (ISO) » Thu May 01, 2014 1:37 am

We all need mirrors to remind ourselves who we are. I'm no different.

Day 1 Official Votecount 01

toolenduso (2):

Jingle, MTD

MTD (1):

toolenduso

Not Voting:

Turkish Van

With 4 alive, it's 3 to lynch or 2 to no lynch.

Deadline

: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 at 19:00 EST, or in (expired on 2014-05-13 19:00:00).

Mod Notes and V/LAs:

None.

toolenduso · Post Post #407 (ISO) » Thu May 01, 2014 5:39 am

In post 404, Turkish Van wrote:tool, how would you expect town-MTD to react to your ploy?

I've never pulled a ploy like this before and I haven't seen anybody pull a ploy like this before so I don't want to speculate as to how town would react vs. scum. What I can say is that I wouldn't expect a townie to scumslip.

In post 404, Turkish Van wrote:
In post 190, MTD wrote:Ok, I will not say much about Firestarter, as I feel everything has been said for now, now we wait for content.
I am somewhat compelled to vote Lucky, but I am still not sure, as just going for that hammer is, well idk, but that's WIFOM, so maybe Lucky, why did you quickhammer and not wait for Fire to answer? It's not like we had no time...
I don't see this from a buddy. Scum buddy saddled with a potential mislynch is likely getting themselves on record as being against that lurkaderp behavior.

You don't see a buddy declining to comment about the pressure on their partner, moving toward a mislynch and then asking why the mislynch candidate didn't want to hear from their partner?

Because I do. That totally looks like something scum would do.

In post 404, Turkish Van wrote:
In post 234, MTD wrote:Also, obviously I agree Firestarter needs to get in here. Yesterday evening has passed last time I checked. On the other hand I don't quite see that as a reason to vote him right now, as it doesn't seem like it's necessarily a scum tactic and we really shouldn't policy lynch at this point.
Less clear here, but sentiment was still against Firestarter. A Firestarter scum lynch at that junction gets MTD strung up the next day.

Am I forgetting something here? Why would a Firestarter scum lynch have meant MTD getting lynched the next day?

And what I hear you saying is that you would expect scum to put themselves on record against their lurking partner. Here, as far as I can tell, is an example of MTD doing exactly that, and it still doesn't point to them being partners for you?

In post 404, Turkish Van wrote:MTD makes a point of greeting Guyett, Guyett puts town-Lucky at L-1, but then basically sets up for an MTD bus almost immediately thereafter? He knows they're one day from XyLo with a Lucky lynch; why risk 3p LyLo as a lurker slot?

I don't know what xylo means.

MTD greeting Guyett means nothing.

Look at how fast Guyett started reacting to things in the thread when he came in. I think he basically saw that he was scum and decided to play in an aggressive, risky manner. To me it makes sense that Guyett would come in and quickly notice:

1. An opportunity to score an easy mislynch
2. That his partner looked bad
3. That the game was in an advanced enough state to put scum in an autowin (or near autowin) situation

In post 404, Turkish Van wrote:
In post 399, toolenduso wrote:@TV and Jingle, I would like you to respond specifically to this point I made in my first post of the day:

In post 385, toolenduso wrote:
In post 381, MTD wrote:Srsly, either you just scumclaimed when there is still a day to go or Guyett faked a guilty as town, I can't get either of the two into my head.

Let's look at this from the point of view of MTD being town:

-Tool scumclaiming is a possibility, but MTD doesn't know why I would do it
-Guyett faked a guilty as town...
which means that scum has to be in {tool, TV, Jingle}.

The bolded would be
impossible if MTD were town
. From townMTD's point of view, I could be scum, but how could Jingle or TV be scum if neither of them hammered MTD when he was at L-1?

Now
that
is a scumslip.
MTD says he can't wrap his head around either possibility. You claiming scum before the game's over or Guyett being town having faked a guilty on known-town-MTD implying that we or Jingle failed to hammer town-MTD. He's not saying one of those must be true; he's saying he can't believe either is true. I don't think this is a slip.

What he says is that one of those two must be true, despite not being able to wrap his head around them. Regardless of the qualifying statement, the function of the sentence is still to say that one of those possibilities must be true. He said it because at that point he had realized what I was up to and was trying to post like a townie would post and discredit me. So he tried to see things from a townie point of view and failed to.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #408 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 7:22 am

Jingle is being prodded.

The activity in this game is abysmal.

MTD · Post Post #409 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 9:47 am

well I got nothing more to say
( /prod-dodge)

toolenduso · Post Post #410 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 11:17 am

I don't either atm. I've stated my case.

Jingle · Post Post #411 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 11:24 am

Sorry, I hate getting prodded, but I've not got a lot of information to put out.

Tool, for reference, here's a bunch of reactions after I claimed scum: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=39333

The point tool is trying to make is that MTD's second response to tool doesn't make sense, when tool fishing for reactions doesn't make sense. By his own admission, tool should have known the remaining scum. It is illogical to claim scum (which he did) in order to get a scumslip when his lynch loses him the game. He's caught, and lost, and he's doing an admirable job defending an undefendable position. Please hammer, TV. I don't see any argument convincing me at this point and you can blame the loss on me if I'm wrong.

toolenduso · Post Post #412 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 11:34 am

In post 411, Jingle wrote:By his own admission, tool should have known the remaining scum. It is illogical to claim scum (which he did) in order to get a scumslip when his lynch loses him the game.

I already explained why I gambited, but I'll explain it again as a response to what you're saying here.

At the point when I fakeclaimed scum, it was obvious that I was going to be lynched the next day. I felt like it would be futile to try to talk you and TV into seeing the truth without some more convincing evidence. So I pulled my gambit in the hopes of getting that evidence.

It was either me being lynched because MTD had towncred based on Guyett's flip, or me being lynched because my gambit failed. I decided to go with the one that gave town a chance to win.

toolenduso · Post Post #413 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 11:34 am

To put it a bit more succinctly: I knew who the remaining scum was, but I needed something to show you and TV who the remaining scum was.

Turkish Van · Post Post #414 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 1:47 pm

In post 411, Jingle wrote: The point tool is trying to make is that MTD's second response to tool doesn't make sense, when tool fishing for reactions doesn't make sense. By his own admission, tool should have known the remaining scum. It is illogical to claim scum (which he did) in order to get a scumslip when his lynch loses him the game. He's caught, and lost, and he's doing an admirable job defending an undefendable position. Please hammer, TV. I don't see any argument convincing me at this point and you can blame the loss on me if I'm wrong.

Not interested in blaming anyone if we pick wrong.

We'll vote tomorrow when Mala has time to read.

My opinions haven't changed. And tool hasn't really addressed set-up issues either.

--PA

Malakittens · Post Post #415 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 3:17 am

-;; I want pa to wake up. I think I made a decision.

Jingle? Explain to me why you chose to vote Lucky and didn't change your vote that day.

Tool? Explain to me why you hammered luky over Guyett.
Also answer our questions.

Turkish Van · Post Post #416 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 8:28 am

In post 415, Malakittens wrote:-;; I want pa to wake up. I think I made a decision.

Jingle? Explain to me why you chose to vote Lucky and didn't change your vote that day.

Tool? Explain to me why you hammered luky over Guyett.
Also answer our questions.

Quoting for you.

And Jingle's one of the bonafide good guys. We'll talk on Skype when I get home again in a few hours.

--PA

Jingle · Post Post #417 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 2:25 pm

Lucky was mostly a policy lynch on my part, because I was burned in Mini 1439 and did not want to see it happen again.

toolenduso · Post Post #418 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 3:36 pm

In post 415, Malakittens wrote:Tool? Explain to me why you hammered luky over Guyett.

Lucky looked awful to me at the time and looked to me like a much better lynch. Post #229 sums up my feelings about Lucky at the time pretty well. A lot of the push against Guyett seemed to be leftover frustration with Firestarter promising to post without doing so, which seemed to me like weak reasoning and an easy reason for scum to hop onto a mislynch.

In post 415, Malakittens wrote:Also answer our questions.

Is there a question of yours I didn't answer?

toolenduso · Post Post #419 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 4:15 pm

In post 414, Turkish Van wrote:And tool hasn't really addressed set-up issues either.

That was what the latter half of this post was for.

Turkish Van · Post Post #420 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 4:58 pm

In post 419, toolenduso wrote:
In post 414, Turkish Van wrote:And tool hasn't really addressed set-up issues either.
That was what the latter half of this post was for.

Yeah...not all town PR duos are created equal, nor does that address the countdown/time limit issue.

Talking to Mala right now.

--PA

Malakittens · Post Post #421 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 5:03 pm

VOTE: Tool

Turkish Van · Post Post #422 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 5:03 pm

So as per the above, Mala and I have talked, and we agree on tool as scum.

MTD, if it's you and Guyett, well-played. (but don't answer that; ETL likes to do her own reveals as per the game rules...!)

VOTE: toolenduso

Until post-game...

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #423 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 9:46 pm

Day 1 Official Votecount FINAL

toolenduso (3):

Jingle, MTD, Turkish Van

MTD (1):

toolenduso

Not Voting:

With 4 alive, it's 3 to lynch or 2 to no lynch.

Deadline

: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 at 19:00 EST, or in (expired on 2014-05-13 19:00:00).

Mod Notes and V/LAs:

None.

toolenduso was lynched on Day 1. He was

The Waiter, Mafia 1-shot Strongman

.

I'm not a killer. I'm just someone who wanted to make things right. Can't I just let myself forget what you've told me? Can't I just let myself forget what you've made me do. You think I just want another puzzle to solve? Another John G. to look for? You're John G. So you can be my John G... Will I lie to myself to be happy? In your case Teddy... yes I will.

TOOLENDUSO

You are the Waiter (cuz the movie only has like 8 characters),

Mafia 1-shot Strongman

.

The waiter worked at Chy Grill. After Leonard Shelby had met with Natalie in the diner, she left and Leonard went to the bathroom. The waiter found an envelope on their table, so gave it to Leonard as he left. Leonard then asked for directions to the Discount Inn, and the waiter explained that it was very simple. However Leonard insisted that he had to write the instructions down (due to his anterograde amnesia).

Ability:

On any one night on which you make the kill, you may use your ability to penetrate any protection on the target.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #424 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 9:48 pm

I have to believe in a world outside my own mind. I have to believe that my actions still have meaning, even if I can't remember them. I have to believe that when my eyes are closed, the world's still there. Do I believe the world's still there? Is it still out there?... Yeah. We all need mirrors to remind ourselves who we are. I'm no different.

MTD was Leonard Shelby,

Town 2-shot Jailkeeper

, and survives!
Jingle was Teddy,

Vanilla Townie

, and survives!
Turkish Van was Mrs. Jankis,

Vanilla Townie

, and survives!

CONGRATULATIONS TOWN!

Now is the time for you to share your thoughts and ideas of how the game went, what you liked, what you didn't like, and any advice or praise you might have for your teammates and opponents. I'm also appreciative of any criticism regarding the modding, flavor, design, etc that you feel I could improve on as a mod.

<3

The Flavor:

The flavor was based on the movie Memento, which, if you haven't seen it yet, you should. I love this movie - it's awesome. The movie was designed as a puzzle of sorts, starting with the end of the story and going backwards scene by scene. Each scene began with the beginning of the previous scene. The days going in reverse was simply a tribute to this design and had no bearing on the mechanics of the game at all. If you'd decided to no lynch/no kill, it would have gone to Day 0, and so on, though I didn't think it would go past that (and I was right

).

As far as the roles and flavor names, roles were randomized first, and then the flavor names were randomized. The fact that the jailkeeper was Leonard Shelby, Sammy Jankis was the IC, and Catherine Shelby died first was all an astronomically awesome coincidence.

Also... I didn't re-watch the movie until AFTER the game had started, or I would have made the Waiter (toolenduso) Jimmy Grantz instead.

The Game:

I want to thank all of you for participating and making this an enjoyable experience. I had a lot of fun modding this game and watching people figure things out. You should post more though. If the mod goes more than 2 days without posting because the page already has a VC on it, there's a problem. That's all! Love you!

Mafia QT:

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/CSyqC3efRZUg

Dead thread:

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/NaJenxNKnDwSh

Mod QT:

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/hY52HjENUqd

Spoiler: All Role PMs