Open 556: Fire and Ice (Over)

[Not_Mafia]

I feel like this is necessary

@ Mod why is the no spoiler tags rule in place? They're useful for preventing having to scroll past walls and I don't see why they would be banned

[The_Ascended]

I don't like the way you keep defending tricks. You guys seem to have some unwritten communication going on that's setting off alarm bells. Either you're mafia together or one of you is "tricking" the other and you know my opinion on which of you it is

This slot basically picked up on the same things I did, soyeah. Insanely town, there.

Zeph could be scum, though.

Or they're undermining us and they're actually in the same scum team. Just a theory though

This feels like it was thrown in as an afterthought of, "Oh, hey, should probably post something that sounds like it wasn't made from the opinion of a scum player," if that makes sense.

I honestly don't see N_M as mafia because of the early interaction atm. Fin has not done anything I think is scummy. Tman would be the scummiest of the three that have been talked most about but I think scum is still hiding atm. Ima try to look for scum in the people who have not been at the forefront bc that's where I think they are atm

Also very town, since my thinking is right along these same veins. Not_Mafia is a fairly strong townread, and Finglove a decent one, too. And tman isn't exactly a strong read either way; while gun to my head, it's still a scumread, it's far more ambivalent-null.

I'd also like to point out without quote spamming that I basically see Not_Mafia and BoroPhil (with a Baezu assist) pwning Moonlight/Trickster (with a 4heads assist) in the debate they were having. A debate that over the course of the pages, I'm finding myself going, "Yep. Not_Mafia/BoroPhil/Baezu town, and also raising fair point; Moonlight/Trickster not so town, making not so great. (Oh, and 4heads probably town, but still not posting great.)"

[BoroPhil]

I was really baffled for a moment there about who had replaced Slainte.

[Moonlight]

This is exciting. I hope she keeps scumreading me, I want to see what she is going to do about it. Finally something refreshing and new.

[Tr1ckster]

Hm.

This may be unfair of me, but this is where I'm at.

Had mastin been any other player, I would townread them as misguided/confused town or VI. But mastin is a highly respected as an excellent mafia player, so I read her as scum right now.

[The_Ascended]

Yup. Everyone jump on my wagon. I'm the easy lynch. You won't look scummy at all for pushing the easy lynch.

Again. Insanely town mindset, here. I'll probably be asked to explain after I get caught up, though that'll have to wait. (Running a bit short on time at the moment.)

When Mastin catches up on this we're going to get the wallingest wall ever to wall

Thus, the usage of spoiler tags I wanted, and why I'm not quoting everything I agree with and everything I disagree with and why.

Still not liking idk's posting, which ironically is making me like tman's posting. And then I get things like this that make me re-evaluate that stance.

Gun to my head, I'd say idk-scum and tman-newbtown, though both being scum (opposite) isn't impossible and both being town also isn't impossible.

Sure, let's fucking lynch anyone we don't like instead of lynching who we believe is more likely to flip scum.

Does make me wonder about the possibility of a Moonlight-Zeph team, though.

I actually liked Zeph's reaction here, though.

I deeply understand 4heads's reaction here, and it increases my townread there quite strongly, even though I'm not sure I really agree with the conclusion that Zeph not doing anything = Zephscum. Could be, sure. Actually is, not so sure.

I'm still townreading Tricks, though his defense of Zeph got me curious and thinking that

if

he is scum, Zeph is a probable buddy.

Well, this is ironic.
I will say this, though, that of my initial scumreads between the two of Moonlight/Trickster, if one of them is wrong, it's almost certainly the Moonlight one. Not sure he's town, though, but aside from the irony bit, I actually really like that post.

Will tackle and continue my readthrough from Baezu's readslist.

[Moonlight]

Well, you think I'm excellent too and I disagree, so. =P

I've never played with her and I don't trust hearsay, I want to experience her play first-hand.

PEdit; Damn, the scumread's fading.

[Tr1ckster]

Well, you think I'm excellent too and I disagree, so. =P

I've never played with her and I don't trust hearsay, I want to experience her play first-hand.

PEdit; Damn, the scumread's fading.

Touche.

I think there's a lot to be said for hearsay. It can say a lot about the source.. and the source can say a lot about it.

That said, I've read her "Mastin Academy" or most of it, anyways...

And her play right now makes me think scum.

You enjoy her having a scum read on you? *raises eyebrow* We think very differently, my friend. Very differently indeed.

[Moonlight]

The worst thing that can happen is that I get lynched, and I get to tell the rest of you who is scum on my wagon.

I'd love the opportunity.

[Tr1ckster]

The worst thing that can happen is that I get lynched, and I get to tell the rest of you who is scum on my wagon.

I'd love the opportunity.

Eh. But living to the end of the game is so much more fun. Also, who am I going to bounce my reads off of?

[The_Ascended]

I think you're hyper focusing too much and seem too agreeable with a lot of things.

I strongly disagree with this assessment of BoroPhil; his posting has seemed to have struck the perfect balance of focus and is anything but agreeable. Agreeable posting = basically everything Moonlight/Trickster have been doing, with a dash of 4heads. While BoroPhil's got allies supporting him, he's not agreeing with them, so much as they're augmenting each other.

Moon- I didn't really like your reads list bc it didn't give too much new info but your posting feels town.

I also picked up the opposite impression; Moonlight's posting feels like scum, but the reads list seemed to be coming from town.

Does anyone know if this is his playstyle?

I do, and yes it's town.

Hasn't posted much content.

One reason that he could be scum, but overall, the content I DO see looks town.

Tman- posts are scummy but he just seems like classic mislynch material. Such easy picking for scum. I've been in his position before so I am very familiar with what's going on. Town

Basically what I'm feeling right now.

Interesting reads, Baezu. That's good. I think I agree with a good bit of that.

Wanna vote for one of them?

Case n point.

I don't feel like any of the four (aside from possibly Zeph) are realistically going to flip scum.

That 180 turn from Baezu and Trick is supporting her now. Scum team?

No, scum buddying town. You might be on a scumteam, though, for this.

Kinda want to vote Trickster, but again, catching up, will need to talk to Pasch, and whatnot.

[Tr1ckster]

Kinda want to vote Trickster, but again, catching up, will need to talk to Pasch, and whatnot.

LOL I see what you mean, Moon. That was the most exciting thing I've read all day...

Hm. I wonder if everyone will read us as scum because of the way we play together?

[The_Ascended]

Now go back and reexamine your reads. Then find out who you disagree with. Don't yell at the person you disagree with, ask them questions about the places you disagree. Calmly, civilly, talk through the differences.
THen, when things have been more resolved, you can vote again.

So from what I can gather, a fair number of the townreads are from Trickster posting things like this, correct? Things that sound pro-town, well-informed, reasonable, good ideas, and which further a town wincon, right?

...The problem with them is that these things are essentially things that you can recite from a Book of Mafia. (Especially if you read up on Mastin MD. ) As in, he's basically saying things that he can say as either alignment, that while looking good...don't actually do any good. His delivery of them doesn't have any passion behind them; it sounds like exactly what I said: a cold, dispassionate pre-prepared (well, probably not, but close enough) speech, given to address the crowd in order to gain their favor, that costs him nothing and gives him a gain.

Like, it seriously feels as if he's just quoting from random MD threads of mine, thinking that saying my advice inside the game thread will look pro-town. (And it does...look pro-town. Doesn't actually mean it IS pro-town; pro-town usage is to

incorporate

the advice, give specific directions, to basically have passion behind the words. And he has none.)

That's basically been my main problem with him, I suppose.

idk looks worse for 312, by the way.

and by calling me a loose cannon I think you betray the fact you know I am town.

^Exact thought I had.

Moonlight, take your head out of Tricky's arse, step back, and actually try and look objectively at what he is posting?

Leaving all of the other stuff aside from the start, he has now misrepped me and now is voting for me with reasons he can't substantiate and his only responses are 'rest my case' and 'oh it would be a waste of time'. how covenient!

A fairly accurate summary of basically one of the main things that I've thought about Trickster all day. His posting does a good job of looking town to make you like him. It really, really doesn't look like town.

Semi off topic; I'd love nothing more for postgame lulz than for Trickster and Moonlight to be on opposite scumteams who are both trying to captalise on their dynamic to get townread

Indeed. (Though if I'm honest with myself, Moonlight is probably town.)

Ah good. I figured Mastin'd try to set you straight anyways...

Set Moonlight straight on what?
The townread of you?

...

VOTE: Tr1ckster.
Like, I need to leave (and will continue reading from that post when I return), but...I'm not sure I can read that statement in any other way.
/almost made it, but alas. Not quite caught up.

[BoroPhil]

I'm glad someone else has picked up on the 'agreeable' thing.

Bez never explained it, although we did have an extremely useful definiton of the word agreeable from idk at 312

[BoroPhil]

...The problem with them is that these things are essentially things that you can recite from a Book of Mafia. (Especially if you read up on Mastin MD. ) As in, he's basically saying things that he can say as either alignment, that while looking good...don't actually do any good. His delivery of them doesn't have any passion behind them; it sounds like exactly what I said: a cold, dispassionate pre-prepared (well, probably not, but close enough) speech, given to address the crowd in order to gain their favor, that costs him nothing and gives him a gain.

Like, it seriously feels as if he's just quoting from random MD threads of mine, thinking that saying my advice inside the game thread will look pro-town. (And it does...look pro-town. Doesn't actually mean it IS pro-town; pro-town usage is to incorporate the advice, give specific directions, to basically have passion behind the words. And he has none.)

This is ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON.

very well said.

[Tr1ckster]

Mastin I understand your confusion.

I don't have feelings, so I always sound cold and dispassionate.

The vote's interesting... as is the misrep of my 359. Although it might be a joke misrep, so I don't know.

I'm flattered you think I'm pro-town. You make me think of another player on a site I came from. He knew how to make you look scummy for voting for the scummiest player, and you seem to be trying to make me look like scum for being the towniest player (which I'm not.) He was scum that game, by the way.

I don't like the Boro Mastin buddying going on. Especially right after the emphasis on the NOT BUDDYING coming from Boro.

[BoroPhil]

haha, Tricky lecturing other people on misrepping. superb.

[BoroPhil]

and it's not really buddying is it? we've barely interacted (unlike you and Moon). we just seem to be arriving at similar conclusions and are noticing similar things. and it's not just us, is it? I think not is on the same wavelength. possibly some others.

[Moonlight]

@Tricks:

I'm still waiting for someone to debunk my theory that you can't be scum due to what I said in 369. Any takers?

Anyway, why would I expect to make it to endgame when you combine my tendency to get shot with having 4 scum alive? We'd have to lynch really well and/or they'd have to kill each other in the night for the game to be short, I'm never in it for the long run.

I don't give a shit what their read on us is, just how they reach it. I'm confident I'll be able to tell who is genuinely thinking we're scum and who's faking it.

The pieces are slooowly falling into place. The things I'm confident about though are that you are Town and Zeph is scum. Baezu and Ascended are probably also Town and Pasch in particular thinks a lot like me, so even if I die you can bounce reads off of him. My townread on 4H is weaker, but still there. I still don't know what to make of NM and Boro.

Finglove, midget, Jasmine, tman and idk have said too little and I wish they'd be more active.

[BoroPhil]

honestly Moonlight, that 369 means absolutely nothing.

he could easily claim doc later if he wanted to

[Moonlight]

No one would believe a doc claim from him when he has called himself a VT without realizing it.

What I forgot about though is that you (and now Mastin too) townslipped by thinking that Tricks "knows" you're Town. (Because the scum don't know who the Townies are in this setup.)

[BoroPhil]

but he hasn't really has he? he's just created a nifty little catchphrase. he hasn't said 'I am a VT'

Unless he wants to clarify? Usually I'd discourage claiming as it would reduce the doc pool for scum to aim at, but I'm very confident either faction won't be aiming for him.

Equally my 'townslip' could have easily been fabricated by myself.

[Moonlight]

I have to say that for all my townreading of Tricks, his reaction to Mastin made me worry. What happened to the Tricks that challenged Nacho to lynch him? Why didn't he do that with Mastin?

[Moonlight]

... If Tricks is scum, he was looking to get off his buddy's wagon.

I'll be damned. D:

[Moonlight]

I did a quick ISO on Tricks, looking for mentions of Zeph. This sticks out so badly...

Then vote for tman.

We'll deal with Zeph in the morning.

You're upset because he voted for you for illegitimate reasons, I think you need to unvote him, take a break from the game, discuss with the other for heads, and get back into it.

Trust me. If you do this, people will take your vote more seriously. Like a vote that's been thought through and makes sense. Right now it looks like an OMGUS vote. And I'm not dealing with OMGUS votes.

So if you're town and you're legitimately scumhunting and you want to be taken seriously, unvote him for now and you can vote for him later after you've spoken with the other heads and you can come back with real reasons other than the one that he voted for you. Ok?

The bold part requires knowledge that Zeph will still be alive.

I'm beginning to seriously see a Zeph/Tricks team. Fuck.