Touhou UPick 2 - [Game Over]

[Magua]

Magua replaces Axxle.

Hai guiz.



Why should I vote notscience, vezok?

Why are GiF's votes on Varsoon and Victor in cyan-on-black?

[Magua]

"can" freeze or "must" freeze? (ie did you choose to freeze GiF's vote on you?)

Why are you voting notscience?

[Magua]

Ok, someone *else* tell me why vezok is voting notscience.

[Magua]

Well, that seems pretty ironclad.

Why are you not voting scum, SXTL?

[Magua]

I already used a spellcard that allowed me to confirm my flavor as Cirno, the Ice Witch.

I'm trying to find a font small enough to describe how much I

care

know about this flavor, but I'm failing.

His 1v1 against GiF feels scum-sided

Is there really a 1v1, like "one of the two must be confirmed scum because of role/mechanics," or is this

notscience being an inscrutable lurker

GiF being an arrogant provocateur

something else?

Except notscience is playing to his town meta, vezok is just having a playstyle clash.

Elaborate on what notscience's town meta is. From this page and the previous, the town-thing seemed to be claiming hated, which is meh. What else?

[Magua]

because i like my sanity the way it is and don't want to spend the rest of my days driven mad, curled up in a ball in the corner repeating to myself, "how could anyone possibly think that? it just doesn't make any sense!"

I've missed you

telling me what a terrible mod I am

.

I wonder why people are still voting for GiF.

If it was good enough for Axxle, it's good enough for me. In response to your 2098, why are you worried about vote rearrangers and shit with people's votes on GiF, but not on anyone else?

I'm still in the hold off until the replacements contribute mode. I want to see what they say before putting anything down.

I'm here! Nacho's here! You've got some sort of mallet that's going to kill you, so allow me to humbly suggest that the time for doing shit is nigh.

Where "doing something" isn't "do something completely inscrutable whilst giggling to yourself about how inscrutable it is." Jus' sayin'.

So you're voting notscience. Sakura's pretty certain notscience is town, blah blah meta blah. You disagree. But you're never addressing Sakura's points. Varsoon addresses the point, they have a good ol' back and forth about meta, but you come in after Sakura's 2068 and all you say is, "Hey, shouldn't notscience be prodded?"

Which is meh.

So thoughts, plz.

---

Pondering things through, Sakura and Varsoon are the only people that I actually like as town right now. Victor's the only one I like as scum.

Which unfortunately leaves this huge swathe of people whom I have no opinion on -- GiF, notscience, SXTL, Pim, zMM, Kagami, Nacho, and vezok.

That needs to be fucking rectified, especially with SXTL, Nacho, and Pim not voting. SXTL doesn't seem to think much of the notscience-wagon (2030), but isn't actually saying notscience-town, and isn't saying anything about GiF or anyone else. Nacho is new so gets a 12 hour extension, because I'm a just and merciful god. Pim thinks Victor is scum (yay!), and that GiF is scum, but isn't actually voting for either of them because...dunno.

I want to be much less sadface than I am now.

UNVOTE: GuyInFreezer
VOTE: Pim

[Magua]

Innocence proves nothing.

Well, I

guess

I can accept that as a reason for him to be town.

[Magua]

Pondering things through, Sakura and Varsoon are the only people that I actually like as town right now.

Btw i have a cop inno on Varsoon so this fits.

I can't tell if you're trolling or serious at this point, so I'm just going to tell you that I'm assuming you're serious until further notice.

[Magua]

Lily generally seemed decently town, so Magua gets to skate a little bit by extension.

Who

is

was Lily?

---

No, mala hates scum roles, i dont think she'd have replaced into notscience's slot if she read it was a scum slot.

I defaulted to this thinking about Mala as well, but it lasted in my head only until I ran into this post:

Man you are lucky ns is sick and replaced out because he'd be screaming his head off at you because he hates when people accuse him of scum when he's not and your reads have been so bad. You'll be sitting in the dead QT shaking your head when you see afterall that we are town and you hardpushed a town since you replaced in.

I can't defend myself from my pred's actions, so how about you actually give something that I have done scummy. You are attacking a slot who's owner is not here to defend themselves against anymore.

God this is so superAmishedtellterribad. It literally is saying "Welp I know that my predecessor was pretty scummy but that was them and this is me and I'm going to pre-emptively dismiss all of that." It's all very =/. I'm incapable of having a townread on notscience as a player, but I was really hoping that I'd be able to get an easy townread on Mala and I don't have it.

But Pim is still scummier, because Pim's posts are delays: "will get to this," "soon", etc, followed up with no follow through. Pim just feels like scum who is trying to drag but not actually wanting to post content to avoid tying to anyone. The only argument against Pim-scum that I've seen is "loldoublevoter" which, as someone who has had a scum doublevoter in a role madness game, I find less than compelling.

So.

I'm encouraged by Victor not voting Pim, that makes me super happy, and am discouraged by Malakittens voting Pim, so they balance out. I find Malakitten's discredting of notscience super-goddamn-scummy, way more than I ever found notscience himself. But both Pim and Victor are much scummier.

Sakura remains town, Varsoon remains town, vezok remains town (thank-fucking-god).

Scumwise, S->W it's Victor, Pim, Mala.

[Magua]

Why do you only show up to answer factual questions / do mechanics tests?

[Magua]

Hey Magua,
You should do something fun. Like, examine yesterday's VC where I voted.

I saw it. Yer a

wizard

doublevoter, Harry! Hence my bit about mechanical tests.

It was a srs question. Like, of all the things to reply to, "who's Lily" just seems so...pointless.

they were examples of the point. the point being that most of the questions he was asking had no goal in mind; there was no direction to them, no trying to figure out this person's alignment through the answer to the question, no trying to advance the game in any way through the answers to the questions, just questions for the sake of questions. it was faux scum hunting

No it's not. I do that all the time, and I've seen GiF do it.

But tbqh, dicking around about GiF when he's not voteable isn't anywhere near as useful as actually getting off your ass and doing something useful like saying who you'd actually want to lynch. Y'know. That thing you're not doing. PEdit: Hooray, you did something!

No, it's not an superAmishedtellterribad, but please do point out to how it is.

God this is so superAmishedtellterribad. It literally is saying "Welp I know that my predecessor was pretty scummy but that was them and this is me and I'm going to pre-emptively dismiss all of that."

I took the initiative of requoting the part of it that you quoted but apparently didn't read/process.

As for reading notscience: I was null-to-scum on the slot before your replace in. I have found your replace in to be scummier than before notscience replaced out. The "incapable of having a townread on him" was

70%

60%

50% a joke because I don't like lurkers in general, and I have seen notscience lurk in games a metric fuckton. I'm aware that I've seen him do it as town, which is where the joke part comes in.

If I could vig anyone right now

who wasn't Victor

, I'd vig Pim. If not Victor or Pim, you (Mala).

[Magua]

dicking around about GiF when he's not voteable isn't anywhere near as useful as actually getting off your ass and doing something useful like saying who you'd actually want to lynch

what the fuck are you on about? i was talking about RB, not GIF

See, I was confused by the fact that you were voting GiF and not voting Pim.

Now that you've corrected this

huge gaping

minor flaw, I don't really care so weeeeeee.

[Magua]

Not a fan of the Pim wagon.
Where is Pim, even?
Feels like kicking a dude while he's not here to put his dukes up.

Wow, just wow.

I wrote a whole reply and everything, but am now replacing it with...wow.

I read Magua thinking me and Mala were scumbuddies and laughed.

Why? Mala's only comments about you have been "FUCKING HELL VICTOR STOP" and "welp Victor's dead man walking so".

Yeah, you thought notscience's slot was scum and continued this to Mala, but then when Mala is "hey plz unvote kthx" you're like "Okeydokey" and then...nothing.

So explain to me the hilarity.

[Magua]

Sakura, why the fuck did you let VIctor-scum bait you into using up a doublevote? Really, what's the plan there? You're flipping out from Victor's vote for absolutely no reason.

Jesus.

[Magua]

I am the one who shoot sakura. I was 75 % sure she'll flip scum or at the very least clear some confusion.
My vig also roleblocks the target, but I'm not sure if that interfered with sakura's ability.

There.
Are.
No.
Words.

Seriously, holy fucking shit.

Holy.
Fucking.
Shit.

[Magua]

Victor remains scum, needs to die. I am not voting anyone besides Victor today. I'm really tempted to vote him right now but

YOLO

lylo.

I don't even know anymore about

this cruel jest called life

everyone else. Taking out vezok

even though he's a scum innocent child

and Varsoon, I want it to be Victor and GiF and Nacho but my heart tells me that wanting doesn't make it so. And I'm kinda too depressed at this point to care. Maybe caring-time will come around tomorrow.

Maybe.

[Magua]

VOTE: VictorDeAngelo

I was going to wait on that vote, but tbqh, I just can't be arsed. Vezok killing Sakura while townreading Victor is just such a lolsplosion that I feel the obligatory head-exploding-gif-reaction doesn't actually do it justice. Which is super-sad, because outside of vote shenanigans I actually need Vezok's vote to actually lynch scum, and prescient news flash: two weeks are going to drag by at a snail's pace and then the Day is going to end in a no lynch.

At least this way I can "I told you so" afterwards.

---

Like fferyllt's questions, starry-eyed-edly awaiting actual thoughts as to the answers. Mechanics questions are pointless. This setup has a roleblocking-vigilante-innocent-child. Best check the part of your brain that tries to figure shit out at the door, because it's not going to help here.

---

I really, really, really, really wanted Pim to be scum. Pim was going out of his way to make a post to avoid being prodded while at the same time not saying anything

at all

of value. I read it entirely as stalling and foot-dragging. I've been on

more than my fair share of

mislynches in the past, but this one I utterly do not apologize for. Pim was scum and needed to die.

It's not my fault that FakeGod screwed up the flip and posted it in the wrong color.

[Magua]

vote magua

If this guy isn't scum then the game ia trolling us.

This is Benmage in A Storm of Swords all over again. Governing scum and leading lynches on town in lylo.

[Magua]

Like, literally, you went and killed the towniest-because-they're-town-not-because-of-mod-confirmation player, and roleblocked them from killing the most-obvious-scum-player-who-was-only-not-lynched-yesterday-because-they-were-going-to-get-vigged.

[Magua]

Can't say I'm fond of any of this.

Can't say I'm fond of the confirmed towns here either.

To use his own logic against him, though, I don't think there'd be two neighborhoods that were completely town, and I have a lot more confidence that Victor is town over him.

WELL HEY GUESS WHAT NOTSCIENCE WAS TOWN SO WHO DOES THAT LEAVE?

[Magua]

Also for those not seeing it: Magua voted for the only person who he can't unvote. And then he complains of a deadline no lynch. Can you not see how scum he is?

Yeah, I'm pre-emptively complaining, because I know how this is going to go.

Some people remember that Victor is scum. These people vote him, but it's not enough for a lynch. The conftown-wonder-twins dither and against all evidence feel that Victor is town. So then you end up with the Town players divided, some voting Victor and some not. Time drags on. Epochs pass. Eventually the day ends in a no lynch because WE CAN'T FUCKING LYNCH SCUM WITHOUT THE GODDAMN CONFTOWN.

So, yeah. Kick in the pants. Victor or me. Either Victor finally gets dead-ed like he should've last night, or the game is lost anyways. Victor is the most goddamn-edly scummy scumfuck and I'm just goddamn mind-boggled at vezok and Varsoon both reading him as town and I don't want two more weeks of "Well....I dunno..."

i do not really like his choice of vig shot, but i do not see much point in crying over spilled milk

do you have suspects other than victor?

Although I'm crying on the inside over the Sakura-vig shot, I'm mostly just trying to hammer home to vezok how terrible his reads have been and to ask him to stop being so terrible please and thank you.

I suspect everyone who's not Vezok and Varsoon. Next-most suspicion would've been GiF but I want to see what ffery comes up, because I understand her questions but want to see her answers. But the gap between the two in terms of suspicion is (strong->weak) Victor------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------>ffery

[Magua]

meh,

boo!

[Magua]

The whole point of the picture is to make you sad.

(I thought you were playing a card without saying what it did. Which made me sad. So I had to make you sad. Mission accomplished!)

---

Also,

I

we

this slot

myself, Axxle, nor Hanasawa

I haven't targetted GiF N1 or N2.

[Magua]

So yukari has no abilities worth reporting?

Um. What?

What answers are you wanting to see? Are there questions outstanding for me?

I'm waiting to see what results you make from the answers you've been given.

[Magua]

Welp, I'm surprised.

[Magua]

Another is that magua didn't realize that voting such would lead to the point I made about it being essentially a 1v1.

No, I knew voting Victor was sticky. I voted him wanting to make it a 1v1. Spoiler alert: No one cared.

Victor is scum. Anyone who thinks Victor is scum should vote Victor. Anyone who thinks Victor and I are both scum and this is a bus should vote Victor. Anyone who thinks Victor is town and I am scum....well, I don't really have much to say to you because I'm too busy going loooooooooooooooooooool, but, something. Words. Anyone who thinks Victor and I are both town needs to reconcile what they think the setup is -- vote locked town-on-town action in 4v3v1 should be instawin for the groupscum.

I'm going camping this weekend, so will be back on the 18th.

I look forward to another 20 pages, plzandthankyou.

[Magua]

I'm back. I've skimmed the thread but haven't read it.

vezok voted me, which isn't a surprise. Vincent hasn't. Were Vincent town, this should be confirming me as scum to him, but instead he's hemming and hawing because he doesn't want to put a vote down.

Varsoon thinks that all four neighbors in this game are town and shuts his mind down there.

Going to have breakfast now, will then reread.

[Magua]

I guess we have confirmation that Magua knew what he was doing. And this is not what town do at Lylo without any sort of info or reason.

Yep. Saying at the start of the Day the only person I had any confidence as scum was you and then voting you is certainly not town behavior.

Still feeling sad over saying that two weeks ago and then fast-forwarding to 4 days to deadline and welp nothing's changed (PEdit: well, now Kagami's voted, so hooray).

what are your other reads?

only thing i've really seen you talk about is victor. you mentioned ffery as a weak scum read i think and you seem to be town reading varsoon? do you have other reads?

The only reason I've talked about Victor is because

I'm keeping my lynch options open

Victor is such obviously scum that needs to die. He was obv-scum yesterday, he was obv-scum when he "thought" he was going to get killed, and he's still obvscum and THE CONFTOWN ARE LIKE BLAH BLAH BLAH AND EVERYONE ELSE SAYS OH VICTOR IS SCUM BUT LETS DICK AROUND NOT VOTING FOR HIM. The first is aggravating, the second is sadface.

Talking about anyone else besides Victor, until Victor is lynched, is kinda pointless because winning the game is dependent on scum crosskills, and so I'm really just going for the consolation prize of actually lynching scum at some point.

magua should full claim regardless

Spoiler: Claim

So one of the things I look at in LYLO/MYLO, especially as a replacement is the attitudes players bring to the last game day, especially when there are confirmed town, because behaviors kind of flip around. Scum can smell the win in the air. Just one more mislynch. Town suddenly have to care a ton about being mislynched and fight/wriggle/avoid being mislynched in much the way scum do earlier in the game.

Note what Victor has not done, yesterday or today.

[Magua]

<_<
>_>

You realize that I'm already voting someone who stic...you know what, it's just not worth it.

[Magua]

Go back to townreading Victor, Varsoon.

[Magua]

If he kept other people from voting Victor, he absolutely scumclaimed.

If he froze my vote and Kagami's vote on Victor, then he wasted a card for no reason.

[Magua]

Oh shit. I didn't even think about the other votes.

If the vote count is:

VictorDeAngelo [2] - Magua Kagami
Kagami [2] - Varsoon VictorDeAngelo
Magua [1] - vezokpiraka

Not Voting [3] - zMuffinMan fferyllt Nachomamma8

And vezok's vote is frozen, we're fucked. There's no way zMuffin + ffery + Nacho are all town, so today's going to end in a no lynch.

WHAT THE FUCK VARSOON

[Magua]

So fucking annoyed that vezok stopped the kill in Victor, there are no words.

[Magua]

Because of my vaunted ability to count.

[Magua]

Oh. Ok. Ok. Ok. vezok's vote isn't frozen.

Ok.

Everything is ok.

Going to have a bit of a lie down now.

[Magua]

I received the message when FakeGod posted his vote count. Up until then I assumed that you had frozen votes because lolfrozenvotes"PerfectFreeze"lol.

[Magua]

*checks watch*

No, guys, you've still got plenty of time. Be sure not to strain yourself taking stances or actually commenting on Victor's complete lack of being quicklynched until there's only 8 or so hours left in the Day.

[Magua]

No, the sum total of my analysis is that if Victor is town, it is impossible to lynch groupscum today (with my vote on him, that's only 3 other Town vote + SK vote).

Victor continues to ignore this, 'cause he's scum, from yesterday continuing through today. Me voting Victor was quite literally a 1v1, and all the bullshit about "Well what about Kagami" is so much noise to the signal.

In regards to being able to stop people with a frozen vote from playing spellcards, well, how to phrase this? Woop de shit. Victor's used a spellcard that, unless he's lying and Varsoon's not correcting him, turned off their Neighborhood for N3. What's the scum motivation in that? Or town motivation? There isn't one for either alignment to ever use that power, ever, and yet the power exists and Victor used it. I'm imagining that there are quite a few spellcards that have weird effects (eg Kagami's Boo). That doesn't make them Town, regardless of what Varsoon wants to think. The whole "This would be negative utility if Victor was scum" line of thinking is bad.

That's my analysis.

[Magua]

Jesus H. Christ, Muffin, you last posted six days ago and you only come back with a prod dodge? VOTE: z...

I'd forgotten how sad vezok voting Kagami had made me.

[Magua]

Spoiler:

[Magua]

vezok, I'm far from sure kagami is scum. I think nacho's line of thought about her ability made sense.

I am going to vote magua today most likely.

At least someone acknowledges that either Victor or I have to be scum.

you're not really doing much in the way of pushing your lynch other than repeating "victor is scum" over and over (and some point about how you should be confscum from his pov which is actually incorrect but whatever)

It's very hard for me to put energy into it because both vezok and varsoon are townreading Victor for ~reasons~, I don't think groupscum will bus at this point, and so I need every single town in order to have a chance and it's basically just not going to happen. It's super demotivational.

And you're all "not confscum" but he is. It's 4:3:1 and I'm town. My vote is locked. So if Victor was non-groupscum, it is impossible for groupscum to be lynched today without bussing, and the scum have no upside to bussing when groupscum need a non-groupscum lynch and the SK to miss them. So, literally the situation is "Victor is groupscum" or "Game is over for town."

So, yeah.

[Magua]

Countdown to deadline: 2 days, 0 hours, 3 minutes

[Magua]

yeah... see, it's the last two words that i don't really believe

Well, doing some basic math here, there's me, and vezok, and Varsoon, and...welp, don't think Kagami's groupscum-but-could-still-be-the-SK-but-that's-ok-some-of-my-best-friends-are-SKs, so, let's see, carry the three, place the decimal...and, yeah, the chance of me caring what you believe are pretty goddamn low.

Because, again, it doesn't fucking matter if vezok and Varsoon don't do it, so even if you're the final Townie it don't make a goddamn bit of difference without the other two.

Ffery asking about my freakout over Varsoon's card now, rather, than, oh, I dunno, when it happened, is super meh.

zMuffinMan doing the math now, rather, than, oh, I dunno, when I or Kagami voted Vincent is super low.

But, it's not all dreary melancholy! I'm going camping, so am not going to be back until Sunday! So you don't have to deal with my doom-and-gloom repeatedly while you dither away into either a no lynch or a mislynch! Silver lining in every cloud, etc.

[Magua]

Oh god I'm so terrible as scum.

[Magua]

Oh, and zMM, I never even opened the other Quicktopics. (Upon seeing my role, I originally thought I got to trollpost in them, but no, FakeGod clarified it was just reading, so then I asked about the unique visitor count, and he was like, "Um, about that" and zMM and Varsoon are screaming in the scum QT to not open them, so.)

Trollposting QT Spy would be awesome, tho.

[Magua]

Also, I think it's a quantifiable town disadvantage to be in an incredibly uncommon setup (Mafia has two kills) that looks like a very common setup (eg Mafia + SK).

[Magua]

Perhaps if it was public knowledge from the beginning that there were only two factions in this game, it would have solve this problem?

Yeah, I think it would've. As-is, if I felt I was in danger the final Day, I could've just claimed SK without fear of counterclaim.

---

I don't think the godfather was that big of a deal (I mean, it was nice how things went in this game, don't get me wrong, but...) Not only was godfather a possibility that was repeatedly mentioned D2, but Kagami's miller claim should've already primed that there were roles that could interact with results. Were this my setup, I would've added in a note along the lines of, "You're a cop. You're sane. But there may be other abilities that interfere with your results." or similar, but especially with this being role madness, I do feel that that is just the meta expectation, really.

Now, it being a swingy role (godfather either does nothing if you're never investigated or it does SO MUCH if you are) is a different matter, but holy hell, this game was *filled* with swingy roles regardless, so singling that one out is just meh.