Verbally abusing your fellow mafia player is not okay

[LlamaFluff]

How much people can get away with depends on the mod. Some mods allow it, some lock down hard on it. Telling the mod a player is breaking the "be courteous/respectful/etc" rule may be enough to possibly have them shut it down. I have had varying luck with those complaints to mods.

I actually found there is far less of it in game I have ran because I had a "Excessive all caps posting is grounds for immediate replacement" rule, which when advertised as a rule causes most of those players to just skip joining because the "anger" descends to that quickly.

[LlamaFluff]

I disagree with one of your positions. This game relies heavily on emotional reactions, and impacting your fellow players in an emotionally stimulating way in order to understand their alignment is proper if you know how to do it.

The problem is that quite a few players see "emotionally stimulating" others as being an asshole because you can just say "well I was playing the game" as an excuse for being an asshole. I don't care if it gives you a slightly better chance at being able to read another player correctly. If what you are doing is making quite a few players not enjoy the game, you are screwing up and any mod who has respect for the integrity for the game should be force replacing you.

I don't mind it and I don't think many others do.

Just stop if someone asks you/is actually offended.

You sure about this?

Most people who don't act like that would prefer everyone else to actually be civil too. Quite frankly the game is not as fun as it was five years ago because there are people who seem to just try and act like a dick for the sake of acting like a dick. While I greatly prefer the old meta for posting style and game speed, what I really miss is that back then people were respectful of each other. That is dead and gone today.

Anything beyond what Vi is talking about, more of the "Shut up, you are bad and don't know what you are doing" type of attacks just gets old so fast and is needlessly abrasive. You don't need to be the bigger asshole to win an argument.

[LlamaFluff]

"You don't need to be the bigger asshole to win an argument."

Sadly, quite often you do though.

No. You don't.

This type of thinking is the exact reason that we have these issues today. If you are good and have a solid case, that wins you the game.

[LlamaFluff]

Seriously, no one reads cases.

People listen to tone though.

Again. No.

People who shouldn't be playing the game maybe don't bother to read cases, which have their own tone. If you aren't going to pay attention to any cases why are you even playing the game? Seriously why even play?

I would probably policy lynch anyone who is not reading cases because they are at best just going to be a liability to town.

[LlamaFluff]

Like I'm not saying a few people don't read them.

3/4 of people don't read them.

So the system is broken and we shouldn't try to fix it?

There are ways to make player pay attention to cases. Sometimes it takes some direct engagement and other tricks, but there are ways to actually make players pay attention to cases. Saying "lets stop making cases and see who can swear the most creatively" just is wrong.

Basically, people have been moaning about "these newfangled (Insert word here)" for thousands of years

These newfangled assholes?

Nah. Im not about to just say "oh well" about basic decency and respect going out the window. There is a distinct difference between a meta shift that makes the game more difficult to play for certain players and a meta shift that makes the game flat out unenjoyable for players. A basic level of mutual respect needs to exist. While you may have no problem with your friend calling you a retarded fuckwad, most people do not want to be talked to that way.

The problem with being an asshole is that everyone has a different definition of what it is. What one person thinks is just fine and has no issues with being said others may find offensive. While there is such a thing as being too sensitive, there is also such a thing as being over the line. That is what I want to try and shut down, as does most of the site.

[LlamaFluff]

@chamber: I'm not saying you should be an utter dick all the time. Just, sometimes being a little aggressive works, and don't do it if it genuinely offends anyone.

That's the issue though. Quite a few do it even though it genuinely is offending others either due to ignorance of what they are doing or that they don't care about others enjoyment of the game.

[LlamaFluff]

Yes, you are. Fuck is an emphasis word. Calling someone scum is a bland and common accusation. Scumfuck catches the eye. It's effective.

That depends on who is in the game entirely.

If I see a player who is pushing a case doing this, my immediate thought is: This player has a weak case and think the only way they can push it is swearing. Their case is probably bad and they are trying to mask it behind other things.

I fully agree with Vi that the use of "scumfuck" serves no purpose except trying to be offensive for no purpose but your own amusement. If it was going on in a game I was running more than in a couple posts I would probably step in and stop it. Again this is something that you need to realize that some people don't mind, but some people don't want in their game because they see it as unnecessarily uncivil.

Its not all sunshine and rainbows, but at the same time there needs to be a level of respect. I think of it more like a debate. The entire point is to make people think that you are right, but its something you can do without being abrasive.

[LlamaFluff]

Maybe I see it as different settings.

I see MS as basically playing a game with people in your office. Not all high up bosses or anything, but mostly people who are within five years of you either way. Making some "really you did that?" type comments are fine, as well as some mild joking/swearing over certain moves is acceptable. Going off on someone with a profanity laced tirade because things aren't going your way isn't

I think we all just have different levels. People who have a high tolerance for abuse and like to be abusive just need to be respectful of players who would prefer not to be involved in that type of a game. Especially when you have people like me that already try to go out of their way to avoid playing in games with certain people, showing a little bit of push back just seems the right thing to do.

Again going back to the whole "Things used to be better" part... its interesting that those who are arguing for more restraint and respect are older players. Those who don't are newer.

[LlamaFluff]

I'm curious where you draw this age line, because on the last page I see 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2011 all basically arguing against the "swearing is omgzsuperbad!" position.

Look at those arguing for. Most are 2008 or earlier.

[LlamaFluff]

So what you're really saying is there's a vocal minority from pre-2008 that get butthurt over cusswords and the fact that those post-2008 have been exposed to / desensitized to so-called "abusive behavior", you feel the need to falsely insinuate that things were better pre-2008?

Because that's what's going on, just so you know.

Not insinuating anything. I am outright saying I have enjoyed playing games less and less over time due to players having less respect for each other and mods being less willing to act when players complain about it. Side note if a mod isn't going to do anything, they actually need to say something. I have seen a mod continually "just warn" a player when I brought things up.

What I am asking is for when players in games say to tone it down, for people to actually do it. If you want a respectful game, you should actually be able to find one, even if it takes some selective choices of who you play with. I already have a decent sized list of players who I would immediately replace out of a game if they joined and outright refuse to play with.