NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[Patrick]

Votecount

LoudmouthLee (2) -- DrippingGoofball, VitaminR
Tigris (6) -- LoudmouthLee, chamber, Glork, MafiaSSK, MrBuddyLee, Untrod Tripod
Glork (1) -- CrashTextDummie
Save the Dragons (1) -- Albert B. Rampage
MafiaSSK (6) -- Tigris, Save the Dragons, petroleumjelly, Seol, Porochaz, Green Crayons
DrippingGoofball (1) -- undo
Seol (3) -- Sotty7, Shanba, Cogito Ergo Sum
chamber (1) -- farside22

Not voting: Yosarian2
22 alive, 12 to lynch.

[chamber]

As in: the response was in the abstract rather than talking about what the vote was concretely supposed to do in this game? Meh.

Mostly? Responding in abstracts rather than specifics is a classic tell. (abstracts are unchanging and can be your actual town thoughts, after all)

Unvote Vote seol

[Green Crayons]

When did Shanba sign up for this?

spookily

like a ghost

Point of order: "spookily" is a how, not a when.

I demand explanation.

[Green Crayons]

As in: the response was in the abstract rather than talking about what the vote was concretely supposed to do in this game? Meh.

Mostly? Responding in abstracts rather than specifics is a classic tell. (abstracts are unchanging and can be your actual town thoughts, after all)

Let me get this straight: you're faulting Tigris for failing to respond to the question "What kind of information do you think your alternative vote will produce?" for her Page 2 vote with specific information she was hoping to get out of the vote?

[chamber]

No.

[Green Crayons]

So then what are you faulting Tigris for?

[chamber]

Discussing things with you seems like it would just annoy me, so I'm not going to, hence my first response being dismissive.

[Green Crayons]

I look forward to a long and illustrious game of you ignoring my questions!

[Shanba]

When did Shanba sign up for this?

spookily

like a ghost

Point of order: "spookily" is a how, not a when.

I demand explanation.

That's what makes it so spooky

[VitaminR]

Am I not allowed to think two people seem scummy? If so, then I've been playing this game wrong for years.

@VitaminR, Do you believe in the finger of suspicion - Can you be voting for someone and find somebody else equally scummy?

Of course you can find two people scummy. It's more about the fact that they seem like weak wagons to me and it seems convenient that those are your two suspects. It's a little bit too 'going with the crowd' for me and I don't remember you as that kind of player.

Mostly? Responding in abstracts rather than specifics is a classic tell. (abstracts are unchanging and can be your actual town thoughts, after all)

Unvote Vote seol

Yeah, I thought that was what you meant. I don't know, I can see it as a nervous townie response also.

@CES

: What changed between #57 and #74 for you to follow through in switching your vote?

[MafiaSSK]

When did Shanba sign up for this?

Any chance there could be an actual opinion coming from you, ABR?

FoS:ABR

[Save The Dragons]

this game is harder than I remembered.

I like this one the best now.

Unvote, Vote Seol

[Albert B. Rampage]

When did Shanba sign up for this?

Any chance there could be an actual opinion coming from you, ABR?

FoS:ABR

No, I'm overcome by nostalgia.

VitaminR

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, vote LoudMouthLee

[Albert B. Rampage]

Serious vote.

[Glork]

VitR, what are your thoughts on petroleumjelly?

[Tigris]

1.)

Not happy asking these questions, as these are the kind of questions I grind newbies with just to get a better sense of how they play. But given that I have not played with Tigris, I'll give myself a pass. Tigris:

->

a.)

Why do (did) you consider your style to be unorthodox?

->

b.)

Why does the fact that the Glork wagon was "fairly large" make voting the third voter more legitimate? If the wagon had stopped at three votes would you still have voted MafiaSSK?

->

c.)

In the last game you played here (Newbie #1441), you explicitly avoided voting a player who was third on a wagon:

Generally speaking, I wouldn't think that mafia would be aggressive enough to place a third vote on someone the first page (thus bringing attention to themselves)...

That player turned out to be Town. Mind distinguishing that game from this one?

a.

I tend(ed) to take more chances (sometimes they worked, sometimes not so much), for example, back then there was a saying of 'Lynch all liars', but there were a couple games where I was town and lied in order to accomplish something (typically in order to get night targeted when a hider/BP/etc). I also tend(ed) to get caught up in small things that sometimes were just meaningless. And I ramble, apologies in advance.

b.

As LML said, it is an old 'tell', so it was partly tongue in cheek. Honestly, I probably wouldn't have voted for MafiaSSK if it'd stopped at 3 votes, because then my vote won't have given a small unexpected element for people to react to since there would have been no bandwagon that I was choosing not to join.

c.

3 votes in a 9 person newbie is proportionally larger/more dangerous than 3 in a game with 22, so that's one difference as 3 votes there draws a lot of attention. And by the time I posted again in that game, the wagon had swung to nominull for being the third vote and he'd given valid reasons for his quick third vote. Hence why I was defending him in that game instead of potentially adding a fourth vote that could have easily lead to an 'oops hammer'.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

@CES: What changed between #57 and #74 for you to follow through in switching your vote?

Just boring obvious stuff.

Tigris seems nice and easy to read.

[Yosarian2]

Hi everyone. Sorry, did not realize the game was starting so soon.

And I'm going away for the weekend; will be gone for about 3 days, from Friday to Sunday. Should be back on Monday, though.

[Yosarian2]

Unvote, Vote: LoudmouthLee

I'm not a fan of any of the MafiaSSK votes on this page. Feels like a bunch of strong players going for an easy target. I especially don't like LML's #62, which nicely sets up a potential switch to the MafiaSSK wagon while maintaining a push on Tigris. Seems like something scum might do to make sure that two wagons keep momentum.

Her words weren't actually meaningfully responding to the context of the question.

As in: the response was in the abstract rather than talking about what the vote was concretely supposed to do in this game? Meh.

Vote:VitaminR

[Green Crayons]

Sure. If you have enough confidence that your new bandwagon/vote will probably land on scum, then go ahead and start a new bandwagon. That's cool.

That's what's happened to me and this is a perfectly natural and townie wagon to happen.

Does the bolded mean you disagree with the following observations about your wagon?

I'm also not feeling the MafiaSSK votes. Seems like a poor excuse to vote him even for this early in the game. I understand what he is trying to say about bandwagons being one of the best ways to garner information, but they aren't the only way.

I'm not a fan of any of the MafiaSSK votes on this page. Feels like a bunch of strong players going for an easy target.

Not necessarily. Take VitaminR, for example, just because it would be a bunch of strong players all teaming up against me, doesn't make it any less natural or townie. But even with Sotty, my statement can still hold true, for scuminess is sort of subjective and just because Sotty doesn't think of the reason as good enough to be natural, doesn't mean that it isn't.

It's interesting that you see their explanations coming from a "this is a bad reason to vote MafiaSSK, but that bad reason is not suspicious" frame of mind. And by interesting, I mean I perceived their explanations being less benign and I hadn't thought of them in the way you pointed out. Not in a pejorative sense.

[undo]

Serious vote.

And would you like to elaborate on your motives?

[Yosarian2]

Discussing things with you seems like it would just annoy me, so I'm not going to, hence my first response being dismissive.

I look forward to a long and illustrious game of you ignoring my questions!

10 bucks says chamber is town. Green crayon is also looking vaguely pro-town here.

[Save The Dragons]

unvote, Vote: undo

If you're going to pick up on any one thing in this discussion, that seems like a weird one.

[VitaminR]

<3 ABR

VitR, what are your thoughts on petroleumjelly?

Like I said above, I was not charmed by the MafiaSSK vote (I was mostly referring to pj and Seol). Seemed like an easy, mostly theory-based vote. Why do you ask?

Just boring obvious stuff.

Such as?

Vote:VitaminR

Hi Yos!