NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[Save The Dragons]

I'm not going to lie, I'm really eager/scared to see who makes VitaminR's list of "weak" players.

In any case I'm not feeling VitaminR. Honestly I wish I were because then I could be all like

HE'S LEADING US ALONG!

[chamber]

I wont construct a list for him, but there are a couple obvious standouts for me, and there is also an obvious divide between those that were actively recruited because they were respected in their day, and those that were simply still around (which isn't to say that actively playing for 6-10 years isn't it's own selection pressure, but then most of that class wasn't active the whole time~).

[Save The Dragons]

tbh I'm more curious about the list because I want to know what PJ hopes to accomplish with it.

I need to find something to do while I'm waiting for specific people to respond.

[CrashTextDummie]

I agree with PJ's thoughts on MafiaSSK. It's a similar tell to the one I caught UT with in the last Oldy, though it's not as strong here. I also think Yos has decent points against VitR, though I'll withhold judgement on him until I see a response. In addition to those, the one person who stood out to me was chamber:

Yeaaah. I'm going to be less confident this game just because people have old styles, but that screams scum to me.

This to me is the scummiest post of the game so far. It's incredibly severe in its wording for page 2 ("screams scum") and at the same time cushioned by the "reduced confidence". He's preemptively giving himself an out on the grounds that people are hard to read. VitR challenged him on this and he defended his position on two occasions, and yet he dropped her completely to join the Seol bandwagon for reasons unknown (Tigris was at 6, Seol at 3).

vote: chamber

In other news, I found Tigris' response to my question to be reasonable and she looks decently town to me. Same goes for PJ and Yos and, to a lesser degree, StD.

Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure ABR is pulling reads out of his ass:

People I'm willing to lynch:

Petrolumjelly
Glork
LoudMouthLee

People I think are town:

DGB
VitaminR
farside22

DGB and farside town reads look particularly far-fetched.

[CrashTextDummie]

Actually, I'm sure I'll get an answer form chamber without the vote and MafiaSSK needs more pressure.

I wish I could find that smiley, but I agree with Yos2. This just makes sense.

And I think it makes more sense than Tigrisscum at the moment so..

Even after admitting that he should have kept it on the "joke" level, he

still

tries to legitimize his Tigris vote.

unvote, vote: MafiaSSK

[chamber]

I still have tigris as a scum suspect, but I have no experience with tigris, and it easily could be a matter of style clouding my reasoning, as I myself pointed out and as you acknowledged. It -could- have been me laying the ground work to back off the wagon if it didn't come together, but it did come together and I backed off anyway. I actually know and respect Seol's play, and its because of that respect that I'm more comfortable voting for him when I see him do something that stands out.

[chamber]

It's incredibly severe in its wording for page 2 ("screams scum")

This is also odd. What does it being page 2 have to do with anything?

[chamber]

Like, individual points giving me different gut scummieness reads are going to give me the same feelings independent of when they are said (Not to be confused with independent of context~).

It would be odd to claim that I had an extremely strong scum read on her that early, but I think that's the opposite of what I actually said.

[chamber]

VitR challenged him on this and he defended his position on two occasions,

How is the frequency with which I stand by my statements a viable metric for the strength of my read? The only thing that measures is how often I'm questioned on them.

[Glork]

It's incredibly severe in its wording for page 2 ("screams scum")

This is also odd. What does it being page 2 have to do with anything?

How often does something posted on Page 2 give that strong of scum feeling to you?

There's obviously rhetoric at play here.

But if we're being honest about things, I'd venture that a majority of players here are prone to (over)use of rhetoric.

[CrashTextDummie]

This is also odd. What does it being page 2 have to do with anything?

I don't think I've ever seen anything that screamed scum to me by page two of a game. It's a very strongly worded suspicion for that stage of the game, IMO.

How is the frequency with which I stand by my statements a viable metric for the strength of my read?

If it weren't for those VitR, interactions, I might have put that post off as hyperbolic.

What about Seol's play stood out to you?

[Shanba]

It's incredibly severe in its wording for page 2 ("screams scum")

This is also odd. What does it being page 2 have to do with anything?

How often does something posted on Page 2 give that strong of scum feeling to you?

There's obviously rhetoric at play here.

But if we're being honest about things, I'd venture that a majority of players here are prone to (over)use of rhetoric.

I have NEVER overused rhetoric IN MY LIFE.

Why do you think Tigris is scum, glrok?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I agree with CTD that chamber's alignment is fairly obvious at this point.

I think we need some more Seolvotes.

[Save The Dragons]

I think we need some more Seolvotes.

Do it. It's good for the soul.

[MafiaSSK]

Actually, I'm sure I'll get an answer form chamber without the vote and MafiaSSK needs more pressure.

I wish I could find that smiley, but I agree with Yos2. This just makes sense.

And I think it makes more sense than Tigrisscum at the moment so..

Even after admitting that he should have kept it on the "joke" level, he

still

tries to legitimize his Tigris vote.

unvote, vote: MafiaSSK

All my votes are legitimate in some sense. For the little information that was available at the time, my vote was as legitimate as can be.

[Green Crayons]

UNVOTE: MafiaSSK

I don't want my vote there anymore.

[Glork]

To be frank, Shanba, I'm not superterriblyconvinced that Tigris is scum, but I'm actually having trouble right now seeing somewhere else is rather have my vote. There are a lot of very strong players/personalities here, and I'm content to ask questions and gather information for the time being. There are a couple of people who strike me as being likely protown. I'd considered putting a vote on ABR or maybe Seol, but I kind of want to see more meat and bones from Tigris before deciding what to do with my vote.

[Tigris]

I don't recall you being quite this amusing Dragons, but then again has been a few years. I do find it slightly interesting that you are looking at the later players on mafia's bandwagon, but not a similar examination of the other two bandwagons that reached 6. I'm positive that you'll reply in detail whether I ask for it or not...

Personally, I don't really see anything odd about chamber's post, I've seen the phrase 'scream scum' bandied around fairly often. And after getting an initial feeling for his style, the rest seems to fall into place fairly easily.

I am curious to see glork's response to shanba, as I have my own ideas of why he voted for me. Curious to see if my perceptions and reality correspond or not. (

P-Edit:

My perception was that it was a way to build attention on someone other than yourself since you had the largest vote count at the time. Not an alignment indicator, so much as a style indicator. Reason for continuation seems logical.)

Not certain that I've seen anything that would lead me to vote for Seol at the moment. It seems like the votes are from those more familiar with him; however, I haven't seen anything that would make me suspicious of him.

Tigris seems nice and easy to read.

Thank you, if there's ever a question of what I mean, feel free to ask and I'll answer to the best of my ability.

[Untrod Tripod]

I wont construct a list for him, but there are a couple obvious standouts for me, and there is also an obvious divide between those that were actively recruited because they were respected in their day, and those that were simply still around (which isn't to say that actively playing for 6-10 years isn't it's own selection pressure, but then most of that class wasn't active the whole time~).

hey! rude!

not gonna deny it, but still, rude!

words words words I forgot how much FUN it is to play in mafia games where people actually talk through their reasonings, although I'm going to have to pull that playstyle back out of the bag, I've kind of shifted to fit in with the new people.

I like VitaminR and LML for scum. I'm not really feeling Tigris as scum anymore (that was mostly shameless bandwagoning though) and I REALLY am not feeling SSK for scum atm

unvote

for now though

[Sotty7]

So my initial thought, reading your post, was that your behavior here would make the most sense if you're a scum who already knows SSK's and tigras's alignment.

I was with you and your reasoning until you used it to rule VitR as scum. I would think picking on the "bigger" players makes him more likely to be town than scum at this point in the game going with the blending in a big game theory. Unless you want to drop meta on me that this is something he would try as a scum gambit of sorts, I'm just not feeling it.

STD's post #113 is great. I really liked the analysis surrounding the hops on Tigris and at this point I would support a LML wagon outside my current Seol vote, mostly based on some "bad mojo" he's been exuding, the defensiveness over his push of the top wagons and now the fact his vote is elsewhere.

DGB and farside town reads look particularly far-fetched.

What makes you say that? (I think he is right)

[Sotty7]

I like VitaminR and LML for scum.

Is your VitRScum reasoning along the same lines as Yos posted, or something different?

[Untrod Tripod]

it looked like scum picking "townreads"

also "strong players going for an easy lynch" doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you actually think about it. seemed like grasping at straws rhetoric to me to beef up a "these people look like town" assertion that really didn't have much behind it other than VR knowing their alignment already.

[Untrod Tripod]

which I guess is similar, but I just want to make it clear

like I said in the earlier post, I'm trying to get back into my older, wordier playstyle. the kids today like "^scum" type posts more than long explanations. you know how it is.

[Sotty7]

Well I took his post more as "this is a place to start" thing rather than "these people are all prob scum" one. It was also my initial reaction when people started jumping on SSK as he is such an easy player to wagon as scum or as town and I just felt the reasoning for these votes were pretty weak.

[Untrod Tripod]

okay? I'm still saying that the whole concept of strong players going for an easy lynch is pretty nonsensical and seems like scummy rhetoric.