Newbie 1505 (Game Over)

[AxleGreaser]

This is my first game of online mafia, but I have played a lot un real life. I'm not sure how different the strategy is, but it seems to me that no lynch is our best option. Odds are almost 80% that we would lynch town with no information, and actually the mafia do have information because they know who each other are.
After all that I have to say

vote: no lynch

please correct me if I'm wrong about all of this.

yep, Im not the IC or an SE and i am brand new here but I am rather sure the c\vats majority of them will tell you that no lynch is bad option D1.
eeek! youre wrong. does that make you scum? (thats rhetorical)(the answer is nope)
(however you still might be, its just being wrong is something anyone can do, I am pretty good at being wrong)

Please explain in more detail what analysis you have actually done of this using the knowledge you have from other sites and games you played.

[AxleGreaser]

This is my first game of online mafia, but I have played a lot un real life. I'm not sure how different the strategy is, but it seems to me that no lynch is our best option. Odds are almost 80% that we would lynch town with no information, and actually the mafia do have information because they know who each other are.
After all that I have to say

vote: no lynch

please correct me if I'm wrong about all of this.

yep, Im not the IC or an SE and i am brand new here but I am rather sure the c\vats majority of them will tell you that no lynch is bad option D1.
eeek! youre wrong. does that make you scum? (thats rhetorical)(the answer is nope)
(however you still might be, its just being wrong is something anyone can do, I am pretty good at being wrong)

Please explain in more detail what analysis you have actually done of this using the knowledge you have from other sites and games you played.

actually please also first read this post http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5888276
one of those rows or columns is randomly chosen for this games setup.

We need to use a strategy that is going to work, no matter which row or column we are playing with.

[3dicerolling]

I've got somewhere in the range of 20-25 games under my belt. Most of them are offsite.

[3dicerolling]

This is my first game of online mafia, but I have played a lot un real life. I'm not sure how different the strategy is, but it seems to me that no lynch is our best option. Odds are almost 80% that we would lynch town with no information, and actually the mafia do have information because they know who each other are.
After all that I have to say

vote: no lynch

please correct me if I'm wrong about all of this.

Let me elaborate why no-lynching isn't as good of an option as it appears.

1. No-lynching will not give us as much information. Sure, the Night kill will give us some, but if the night kill goes to someone who is universally town that usually puts the town back at square one. With the lynch, the scummiest person in this game dies, which gives the town a whole lot more information.

2. As I said in point one, we lynch the scummiest person out there. Our lynching ability as town is the only way we have of killing the mafia, so it's best we use it.

3. Avoiding MLYO. Basically, you prefer LYLO over MYLO because you have less people to choose from.

I'm not the best explainer, so if I need to run something down again let me know.

[reissebach]

I agree that we should use the whole 2 weeks to get to know each other better, but it still seems like we probably wont lynch scum. As to LYLO vs. MYLO, that argument only works in column B without the doctor, jailkeeper, or bullet proof.

However, in the spirit of trying to get as much info as possible, ill change my vote to

vote: kyndy

because nobody has voted for her and I don't want to join any wagon.

[reissebach]

As to my analysis from previous games I have played, all of them have been in real life, so we have always had more information to start with, such as facial cues, and people having much less time to think through what they say rather than the calculated responses people can create online.

[AxleGreaser]

I agree that we should use the whole 2 weeks to get to know each other better, but it still seems like we probably wont lynch scum. As to LYLO vs. MYLO, that argument only works in column B without the doctor, jailkeeper, or bullet proof.

However, in the spirit of trying to get as much info as possible, ill change my vote to

vote: kyndy

because nobody has voted for her and I don't want to join any wagon.

Just so long as your getting to know people also involves, then working out which ones of them are acting on scummy motivations.
As you don't want to join any wagon (I presume yet) you need to work towards the goal of having whatever information you will need to be able to join a wagon with the intent to get that particular person lynched.
I am doing that right now with you... do I want to lynch you? I don't know yet. I need to know if I do X do you do Y or Z.

These may help as may the various how to play forum mafia guides
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3018250 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p3018714 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3018942

lastly
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3027550 especially "using the threat of lynch as a tool, to ensure ...."
sooner or later people will stop being so nice during today.

[AxleGreaser]

As to my analysis from previous games I have played, all of them have been in real life, so we have always had more information to start with, such as facial cues, and people having much less time to think through what they say rather than the calculated responses people can create online.

Cool
but note you didn't have more information to start with you had to see the facial cues by playing and probing for them yes?
So now that you are playing forum mafia there are differences, obviously no faces, but you now also have lots of time to carefully consider what is said.
you also have accurate records of everything they said not just your memory...

what I am not liking so much is the lack of proactive attempt by you to transfer as much of your skills and knowledge from RL mafia to hunt scum here.

That ^^^^ is me seeing a tell on you here no faces involved. (I probably even stretched what i am seeing to make a point)
It may be wrong (odds are close to 75:25 it is wrong) but its start

[kyndy101]

I played a few games of Mafia in real life (but they were crappy versions compared to the challenge of these games) But this is my second online Mafia game.

I agree that we should use the whole 2 weeks to get to know each other better, but it still seems like we probably wont lynch scum. As to LYLO vs. MYLO, that argument only works in column B without the doctor, jailkeeper, or bullet proof.

However, in the spirit of trying to get as much info as possible, ill change my vote to

vote: kyndy

because nobody has voted for her and I don't want to join any wagon.

Alright, let us 'dance' as everyone else is saying.
So, you are voting me because you are afraid of joining a wagon. This is understandable because in my first game here, wagons were my very weak point because I was too shy to add anything to them and everyone saw that as a scumtell (even though my first game I was a Vanilla Townie, and Town won that game YAY! ) So, I understand your hesitation with wagoning. However, what if those wagons are the right ones? I guess the only way to tell is if the scum squirms under the pressure.
Anyways...
So, ask me any questions, and I'll respond. I'm still not too good at asking the right questions yet.

[reissebach]

Don't worry. The only reason I voted for you is because I don't want anybody lynched yet.
@axle thanks for the links, they were really helpful, ive also been reading some old games. I think I understand the random voting a little better now.

[mallowgeno]

Spoiler: Bulbazaks post

Hello everyone! My name is Bulbazak, and I'll be your friendly neighborhood IC for this game. I am here to help all you new players learn how to play and grow accustomed to our fair site. My play is dictated by the article that our mod mentioned, so feel free to ask me about anything related to how to play the game or mafia theory. This game also marks the 200th Newbie game since my first on the site, so I'm hoping that it will be a good introduction to many of you on how to play the game. I also advise that all those that do not have avatars please get them. They help us to tell your posts apart.

This beginning segment of the game is known as RVS (Random Voting Stage), or for those who don't like to vote willy-nilly, RQS (Random Question Stage). The idea is to use these random elements to produce content in the hopes of actually finding something somewhat scummy or suspicious and jump starting the game. Generally, by the time a wagon has gained 3 or more players, RVS is essentially over, as there should be plenty of info to go over.

Before we'd begin, I'd like to know how much mafia experience everyone has. This will help me gain a better idea of how I can help you. I, for example, have been playing Mafia for over a year and a half, and I have over 35 games worth of experience.

Now without further ado...

Vote 3dicerolling

Because OMGUS.

rats...
I kind of hoped you were going to vote for an SE because one is bound to be scum then I was going to vote the other that way 100% one of us is voting for scum as (amongst other things) I thought that was a funny RVS vote the first time I saw it.
However.

vote: mallowgeno

because

I have played a lot of mafia on a different site that had a live chat room, quick games.

I am used to quicker games too. (6 previous 48hr/day games)

RVS. (I dont do random voting ... I do reasoned voting)
I treat RVS as choosing a dance partner.

So

@mallowgeno

lets dance. (I live in +10tz but could probably meet for a quick introductory tango sometime if you like)

are you scum bro?

(also @anyone feel free to cut in, I am male but can sometimes multitask)

---

---

---

In other news.

Spoiler: Before Wed begin

@response to bulbs IC question, which I believe is also useful stuff for others to read about me, in order to better determine my alignment.
In my experience,
Another good reason to get to know people (even though it looks like not scum hunting) as people is it helps put any accusation you say in context. I for instance am likely going to say way more words, maybe post more often, than people on this site seem to like.
I find It makes it harder for scum to misrepresent people by accidentally on purpose taking words etc out of context if all the context is there and its not in short hand.

I had intended to post a bunch of stuff that would answer the question about my experience and what kind of stuff (level of play, gambit/ruse/intrigue trap) to expect before the game started on a wiki page unfortunately the game caught me by surprise. Some of it is now possibly inappropriate. Ill go through it later and post some in spoiler.

My experience is in my a view a little complex. I played only 6 games (over two years or so) of any kind of mafia anywhere, but that totally misrepresents the amount of time (many years that I thought about the game first, I read or heard about scientific paper on asymmetric information games a long time ago and then thought about it rather a lot while playing rather too many games of various kinds.). So in terms of "game theory" (in any mathematical sense) I am probably more than good to go on my own merits. In terms of real world practice and what is standard cultural form on this site feel free to educate me. or as you say "and grow accustomed to our fair site." and so far I find some stuff fairly confusing. Time will tell it usually does. Also I am probably interested in a theoretical sense about your IC role... as I have other experience in similar positions and long(generational) deep and abiding interest in education and learning both of myself and others, and I find the concept of playing and in some sense teaching intriguing complex and ..., I know I can do that when playing cards, doing it in mafia seems trickier. Any meta discussion/questions I have in that regard however I think probably ought remain outside of game after game.

Finally: me and reading games I didnt play in, yes i do ... a lot. (I have spent more time analysing games I didnt play in than ones I did. I like to watch.)
if you are catching anysense .. is that an oblique reference to...
yep.
I also read(pretty fast for feels) a number of games on this site, including those of people I was likely to be playing the game with or other site notables.

Other content.

I specifically have not only to chosen to vote for mallowgeno
I specifically have chosen not to vote for Bulbazak.
Indeed I chose that before opening the thread.
Id claim whether or not I chose it before reading role PM but that would be WIFOMy or something at least entirely unsbstantiable until I have done it few times.

vote: mallowgeno

PS. No I am not mastin.

Yes I'm scum bro. Mafia scum!

Wbu? Are you scum sis?

[AxleGreaser]

Spoiler: Bulbazaks post

Hello everyone! My name is Bulbazak, and I'll be your friendly neighborhood IC for this game. I am here to help all you new players learn how to play and grow accustomed to our fair site. My play is dictated by the article that our mod mentioned, so feel free to ask me about anything related to how to play the game or mafia theory. This game also marks the 200th Newbie game since my first on the site, so I'm hoping that it will be a good introduction to many of you on how to play the game. I also advise that all those that do not have avatars please get them. They help us to tell your posts apart.

This beginning segment of the game is known as RVS (Random Voting Stage), or for those who don't like to vote willy-nilly, RQS (Random Question Stage). The idea is to use these random elements to produce content in the hopes of actually finding something somewhat scummy or suspicious and jump starting the game. Generally, by the time a wagon has gained 3 or more players, RVS is essentially over, as there should be plenty of info to go over.

Before we'd begin, I'd like to know how much mafia experience everyone has. This will help me gain a better idea of how I can help you. I, for example, have been playing Mafia for over a year and a half, and I have over 35 games worth of experience.

Now without further ado...

Vote 3dicerolling

Because OMGUS.

rats...
I kind of hoped you were going to vote for an SE because one is bound to be scum then I was going to vote the other that way 100% one of us is voting for scum as (amongst other things) I thought that was a funny RVS vote the first time I saw it.
However.

vote: mallowgeno

because

I have played a lot of mafia on a different site that had a live chat room, quick games.

I am used to quicker games too. (6 previous 48hr/day games)

RVS. (I dont do random voting ... I do reasoned voting)
I treat RVS as choosing a dance partner.

So

@mallowgeno

lets dance. (I live in +10tz but could probably meet for a quick introductory tango sometime if you like)

are you scum bro?

(also @anyone feel free to cut in, I am male but can sometimes multitask)

---

---

---

In other news.

Spoiler: Before Wed begin

@response to bulbs IC question, which I believe is also useful stuff for others to read about me, in order to better determine my alignment.
In my experience,
Another good reason to get to know people (even though it looks like not scum hunting) as people is it helps put any accusation you say in context. I for instance am likely going to say way more words, maybe post more often, than people on this site seem to like.
I find It makes it harder for scum to misrepresent people by accidentally on purpose taking words etc out of context if all the context is there and its not in short hand.

I had intended to post a bunch of stuff that would answer the question about my experience and what kind of stuff (level of play, gambit/ruse/intrigue trap) to expect before the game started on a wiki page unfortunately the game caught me by surprise. Some of it is now possibly inappropriate. Ill go through it later and post some in spoiler.

My experience is in my a view a little complex. I played only 6 games (over two years or so) of any kind of mafia anywhere, but that totally misrepresents the amount of time (many years that I thought about the game first, I read or heard about scientific paper on asymmetric information games a long time ago and then thought about it rather a lot while playing rather too many games of various kinds.). So in terms of "game theory" (in any mathematical sense) I am probably more than good to go on my own merits. In terms of real world practice and what is standard cultural form on this site feel free to educate me. or as you say "and grow accustomed to our fair site." and so far I find some stuff fairly confusing. Time will tell it usually does. Also I am probably interested in a theoretical sense about your IC role... as I have other experience in similar positions and long(generational) deep and abiding interest in education and learning both of myself and others, and I find the concept of playing and in some sense teaching intriguing complex and ..., I know I can do that when playing cards, doing it in mafia seems trickier. Any meta discussion/questions I have in that regard however I think probably ought remain outside of game after game.

Finally: me and reading games I didnt play in, yes i do ... a lot. (I have spent more time analysing games I didnt play in than ones I did. I like to watch.)
if you are catching anysense .. is that an oblique reference to...
yep.
I also read(pretty fast for feels) a number of games on this site, including those of people I was likely to be playing the game with or other site notables.

Other content.

I specifically have not only to chosen to vote for mallowgeno
I specifically have chosen not to vote for Bulbazak.
Indeed I chose that before opening the thread.
Id claim whether or not I chose it before reading role PM but that would be WIFOMy or something at least entirely unsbstantiable until I have done it few times.

vote: mallowgeno

PS. No I am not mastin.

Yes I'm scum bro. Mafia scum!

Wbu? Are you scum sis?

<thinks to self oh noes what I got myself into>

nah me only scum o de erf...

hey watchu taklkin abou, me no girly girly not even a girly guy, me a guy... <spreads arms>
watchu think this beard was fungus?

<looks down plucks, a bit of fungus from beard and pretends to throw it away, bit not so surreptitiously nibbles it>

[AxleGreaser]

vote: mallowgeno

are you scum bro?

Yes I'm scum bro. Mafia scum!

Wbu? Are you scum sis?

<thinks to self oh noes what I got myself into>

nah me only scum o de erf...

hey watchu taklkin abou, me no girly girly not even a girly guy, me a guy... <spreads arms>
watchu think this beard was fungus?

<looks down plucks, a bit of fungus from beard and pretends to throw it away, bit not so surreptitiously nibbles it>

Hmm this thinkin Im your sis,
are you a bit slo is your ead full straw or sumthin?

Also u do know we lynch mafia scum in these parts doncha.

Spoiler: signature change

Signature changed or set...to display or ...hmm test tes is this signature now on.
Was "I've seen myself in a still, calm pool and I've heard a donkey bray" (actually not sure which line it was but as I dont think it ever displayed anywhere. meh
Now Is: Axle(No theory to absurd to be considered)greaser >:This space unitentionally left blank:< which is some reflection upon my game mind state hence its now in the thread proper.

[reissebach]

As helpful as the advice was, I'm starting to find axlegreaser's interactions and arguments a little over the top.

unvote

VOTE: axlegreaser

[AxleGreaser]

As helpful as the advice was, I'm starting to find axlegreaser's interactions and arguments a little over the top.

unvote

VOTE: axlegreaser

any ones in particular?

[reissebach]

No, its just normally the mafia is a lurker, or they try to lead the town or talk way too much.

[AxleGreaser]

No, its just normally the mafia is a lurker, or they try to lead the town or talk way too much.

Who else leads town and how do you tell the difference?
When scum lead town what do they get out of trying post/say that much stuff without tripping up?

have you seen anything except that I have the most posts to think that I am a scummy town leader as opposed to a towny one.

[reissebach]

I cant tell, but its about 50-50 that people are one or the other, and 50-50 is better than 2 in 9

[AxleGreaser]

I cant tell, but its about 50-50 that people are one or the other, and 50-50 is better than 2 in 9

that (50-50 town leaders (or even spammy-posters) are scum) is not my experience in games I played in or read.

Spoiler: math pedantry

(note: its normally considered 2 in 8 if you already know you are town and you lynch someone other than yourself)(sorry I am a bit of a math pedant)

I was suggesting to you that there are reasons scum would take the risk of trying to lead town,(direct flow of thread) and that in order to see if you really think I am scum, you would need to examine if I had scummy motives in how I was going about leading town.

(well I am also not really sure I am leading town, that will depend on whether there is anyone following.)

[OkaPoka]

All I see is that reisseback is probably the towniest town there can ever be.

It seems that Axle is talking a lot, and trying to teach us all although he isn't IC.

But on the other hand doogal hasn't done much, probably waiting to take advantage therefore.

Doogal scum

Vote Doogal 121

[kyndy101]

No, its just normally the mafia is a lurker, or they try to lead the town or talk way too much.

Who else leads town and how do you tell the difference?
When scum lead town what do they get out of trying post/say that much stuff without tripping up?

have you seen anything except that I have the most posts to think that I am a scummy town leader as opposed to a towny one.

Axle, you tell the difference between a town leader and a scummy leader because a town leader doesn't even have to feel the need to persuade people- maybe a few nudges or thoughts here and there, bleh bleh bleh. A scummy leader will post literally after at least every two posts and will fight all accusations, force the town to vote a certain person by pressuring them or mass-posting how much that person looks like scum.
Scum who lead town want a mislynch, so they would risk sticking their necks out to persuade the town.


I dunno, those are my thoughts on the subject.

And I'm not too sure about your last question, because at this point in the game, it could be either/or.

[OkaPoka]

Towns always scumread. They defend themselves as much as they can.

Scum always pushes for a lynch, hoping that one of the townies would be mislynched.

Scum don't risk a bold move, because they may be lynched. They play safely.

[OkaPoka]

Therefore Doogal scum since he hasn't been very active...

[reissebach]

Actually, I don't think hes listed at all... can we get a prod?

[reissebach]

Posted*