NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[Natirasha]

Yeah I don't really feel like reading the thread.

chamber who do I vote?

[chamber]

VitR

Nat, you should come over to Seol.

[Natirasha]

VOTE: Seol

Alright let's start here then.

[undo]

As for CTD-CES, often times in games without daytalk it is beneficial for a scum to remark on their partner's posts and let them know in a discreet way if they are in support or against the direction that they are going in.

I found the association tell in CES' opinion on chamber and as such I believe the two could be scum partners. Again, I could totally be wrong on this, but this is what I believe.

Really? Excusing your hardly logical reasoning with belief?

Just to make it clear, in your view, CES saying "I agree with CTD that chamber's alignment is fairly obvious at this point" right after CTD's posts (and even though CTD didn't make it clear he thought chamber was obvscum) is a

discreet way

of showing agreement to a scum partner.

Honestly, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt about that RV-wagon theory, but you just keep on coming out with some outlandish reasonings I frankly wouldn't expect from an oldie.

I'm going to VOTE: MafiaSSK after all.

VOTE: VitaminR, because:
- Yosarian's Post 108.

After MafiaSSK, you're the second person taking this post as sacred. I'm starting to feel stupid for still not understanding how Yosarian's argument against VitR wouldn't as easily be used to dismiss him as a townie.

In other news, I'm going to Paris tomorrow and I shan't be back until Seol has been lynched (or next Saturday, one of the two). My hotel'll have wifi access, so it shouldn't be too bad V/LAwise.

Bon voyage ! Entretemps, tu peux répondre à ma question, s'il te plaît ?

I believe in the LML wagon.

Why?

[Patrick]

Votecount

LoudmouthLee (3) -- DrippingGoofball, VitaminR, Albert B. Rampage
Tigris (1) -- MrBuddyLee
MafiaSSK (6) -- Tigris, petroleumjelly, Seol, Porochaz, CrashTextDummie, undo
Seol (7) -- Sotty7, Shanba, Cogito Ergo Sum, chamber, Save the Dragons, Glork, Natirasha
VitaminR (2) -- Yosarian2, Green Crayons
Save the Dragons (1) -- LoudmouthLee
Cogito Ergo Sum (1) -- MafiaSSK

Not voting: Untrod Tripod
22 alive, 12 to lynch.

[Glork]

UT, are you town?

If you had to have your vote on someone other than yourself AT ALL TIMES, where would it be right now?

[Glork]

Honestly, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt about that RV-wagon theory, but you just keep on coming out with some outlandish reasonings I frankly wouldn't expect from an oldie.

A thousand points* to whomever can point out the giant red flag in this sentence.

*Just like in

Whose Line Is It Anyway?

, the points don't matter.

[Sotty7]

- Although I recognize Sotty reacted in a similar way as Vitamin (Post 58), her particular word usage is more than a difference in degree: it looks like Sotty is saying that she finds the reasons for voting MafiaSSK were bad, whereas Vitamin is saying that he finds the voters voting MafiaSSK were bad/scummy.

I pretty much feel like myself and VitR reacted in the same way. Another reason why I find the suspicion on him kinda weak as no one has really followed up with me on how I dismissed the MafiaSSK wagon.

My whole point was that the wagons were particularly weak and that LML is not the type of player to just go with the crowd.

This is actually the most important point of all on LML in my opinion. He slipped his suspicion in there and it just so happened to match both of the current trending wagons at the time. It just didn't feel right at all. Not very natural.

I'm really not understanding the continuing pushing of the mafiaSSK wagon. I feel like he has addressed pretty much everything that has been put before him. I don't agree with all his assertions but the guy feels genuine and seems to be attempting to figure out the game.

[Green Crayons]

Although I don't think MafiaSSK is scum, I don't endorse his Post 193, mainly because I don't think Vitamin was lying. My comment about Vitamin having self awareness is that I understood the overlap in his description of his scum play and his play this game as arising from a "nobody would believe that scum would describe their scumplay in a way that describes their play in this very game!" mentality.

-----

@undo:

VOTE: VitaminR, because:
- Yosarian's Post 108.

After MafiaSSK,

you're the second person taking this post as sacred.

I'm starting to feel stupid for still not understanding how Yosarian's argument against VitR wouldn't as easily be used to dismiss him as a townie.

Well that's a hyperbolic mischaracterization of my reaction to Yosarian's post if I've ever seen one. I've explained why I thought his original post was solid, and why I didn't care much for Vitamin's response. (Post 117 and Post 179, respectively.) You can disagree with my stated rationale for my Vitamin vote (as I'm sure you've noticed other players have), but here you've taken the extra step by treating those rationales as nonexistent.

-----

@Sotty:

You're quoting something I wrote that directly addresses how you dismissed the MafiaSSK wagon. I'm not sure what more you want, when you're responding to a statement that is exactly what you're asking for.

[Glork]

That's bad, but particularly so in that the theme of 156 is "this is why pushing RVS wagons is good: look at all the info we can get from it" - but that info is nonsense. It feels like artificial suspicion, like he's decided he needs to attack the people who were late on the wagon and then, given that, constructed reasons to suspect them.

What suspicion that comes out of RVS

isn't

artificial, at least to a degree? How can you assertively and honestly say that having a spread of RVS votes is less artificial/arbitrary or any more legitimate/protown? I personally am fine with a large wagon on one person because it does ultimately generate relevant game information.

If the premise of your case against MafiaSSK is that his desire for more centralized votes in RVS is wrong (beneficial for scum and/or less informative), and that because of this game, being wrong is an indicator of being scum, I'm going to need to see you prove that MafiaSSK's stance is actually wrong or harmful.

[Glork]

Incidentally, I am SUPER DUPER AMUSED that people are crying foul at MafiaSSK's "big wagons good" theory, when

at the time he referred to my wagon as "almighty" he jumped AWAY from it, thereby creating a greater spread of votes.

Like, this wagon is legit based on nothing SSK did to actually hurt the game, and just on his theory crafting.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Incidentally, I am SUPER DUPER AMUSED that people are crying foul at MafiaSSK's "big wagons good" theory, when

at the time he referred to my wagon as "almighty" he jumped AWAY from it, thereby creating a greater spread of votes.

Like, this wagon is legit based on nothing SSK did to actually hurt the game, and just on his theory crafting.

It's the beginning of the game, voting based on "theory crafting" is superior to randomly. We will gain more insight into the game with long bandwagons, determined very arbitrarily for the most part, and the quality of which will shape the outcome of the rest of the game.

[Untrod Tripod]

UT, are you town?

If you had to have your vote on someone other than yourself AT ALL TIMES, where would it be right now?

Yes

either LML or VitR

[Albert B. Rampage]

LML, good choice, lock and load

[Tigris]

@Tigris:

Back in Post 47, why did you feel the need to state that your style could be unorthodox as a response to CTD's query about what you wanted to learn from your not-main-bandwagon vote on MafiaSSK? It seems to be a strange non sequitur in light of what CTD was asking.

Partly playful, partly informative as to my style. Since it's unlikely anyone here remembers how I play (and it very well might have changed in a number of ways), thought giving some information might be helpful to the town.

Still not seeing much in the way that would get me to vote for Seol right now. Debating on voting for someone other than mafiassk; however, haven't seen enough for a switch.

Happy birthday sotty =)

Should have more time Wednesday-next Sunday, next few days likely will be 1-2 posts a day.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I feel like this is Mafiascum: Heroes vs. Villains

[Glork]

Incidentally, I am SUPER DUPER AMUSED that people are crying foul at MafiaSSK's "big wagons good" theory, when

at the time he referred to my wagon as "almighty" he jumped AWAY from it, thereby creating a greater spread of votes.

Like, this wagon is legit based on nothing SSK did to actually hurt the game, and just on his theory crafting.

It's the beginning of the game, voting based on "theory crafting" is superior to randomly. We will gain more insight into the game with long bandwagons, determined very arbitrarily for the most part, and the quality of which will shape the outcome of the rest of the game.

The problem is, we are well past the beginning of the game. There's literally a giant pile of bad arguments and confirmation bias driving that wagon and I don't like it,

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't like the Seol bandwagon.

4.)

VitaminR, who do you think the "weak" players are in this game? And yes, I ask this question with the knowledge that you are unlikely to be making friends with your answer.

VitaminR, please answer the question.

[Glork]

I don't like the Seol bandwagon.

4.)

VitaminR, who do you think the "weak" players are in this game? And yes, I ask this question with the knowledge that you are unlikely to be making friends with your answer.

VitaminR, please answer the question.

X

[Green Crayons]

Is that a Family Feud reference I see?

Awesome.

[undo]

I'm really not understanding the continuing pushing of the mafiaSSK wagon. I feel like he has addressed pretty much everything that has been put before him. I don't agree with all his assertions but the guy feels genuine and seems to be attempting to figure out the game.

Addressing what is put in front of you doesn't automatically make you innocent.

Well that's a hyperbolic mischaracterization of my reaction to Yosarian's post if I've ever seen one.

Of course it is -- it was a tongue-in-cheek remark, I thought that was clear. Still don't get how that is a strong argument against VitR though.

I believe in the LML wagon.

Why?

Albert B. Rampage, please answer the question.

[Albert B. Rampage]

His votes don't inspire trust.

[Save The Dragons]

Yeah I don't really feel like reading the thread.

But then you'll miss out on all the

annoying, banal, and totally not

funny stuff I said...

Honestly, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt about that RV-wagon theory, but you just keep on coming out with some outlandish reasonings I frankly wouldn't expect from an oldie.

A thousand points* to whomever can point out the giant red flag in this sentence.

Since I'm not a mind reader

yet mwa ha ha

here would be my guess:

Burdened by Proficiency

The fun part is that Seol plays the "he's either stupid or scum" card too:

Because it favours scum. Either you're wrong or you're scum (with an inclusive or), and in a game full of experienced players, I give less credence to being wrong.

One of the broad generalizations I remember from my time here is that on day 1 people often lynched a pro-town player because people were arguing against the theory of what they said. Intent > content.

I'm going to go one step further from a previous statement and say there is very little that MafiaSSK has posted that I agree with.

Swimming past the bullshit

that is just a gross metaphor. Let me try again.

Putting aside all the fanfare, I suspect that MafiaSSK's actions are efforts to find scum.

But it's just so weird! MafiaSSK basically says we should all vote for Glork to gain information and then votes for Tigris for starting a different bandwagon, thus starting a different bandwagon.

If MafiaSSK turns out to be scum, it also kind of ruins my theory that scum decided to parrot PJ (or is PJ) and jump on the wagon.

I don't like the Seol bandwagon.

I'd be more than happy to join the LML wagon if you could explain why he's a better choice than Seol.

I also really want to know who the villains are (for my own curiosity, not for anything game related). I think there's a ton of villains that I've met over my time that are absent from this game.

[CrashTextDummie]

Prod dodge. Content tomorrow.

[Untrod Tripod]

I'd be more than happy to join the LML wagon if you could explain why he's a better choice than Seol.

Because gut. Follow your heart STD

vote LML