Organic Chemistry [GAME OVER]

[PeregrineV]

Sorry I'm behind, guys. Will catch up tonight/

[Wickedestjr]

Catching up... page 12 comments

Actually...I didn't. That's the same reason I haven't voted you. (Well, aside from the votes already on you.) I had that game specifically in mind when thinking of you, because frankly, it's the only game I remembered.

So instead you have me as your second strongest suspect. I'm not sure what you would expect my town game to look like if you don't think this is it - of the three games (all of which I was town), you town read me in one of them and it was only because I was clearly not partners with your top suspect.
1. Do you think I am more suspicious than I was in the Horrifying Hero game?
and also
2. How is my play different here? Or do you agree that I'm playing the same way?

1. You are right, they aren't definitive scumtells, yet they do add up to a picture of you being scum.
2. I never claim that my reasoning is unique, neither did I claim that I read "just enough" for that, but srsly, the way you put it it makes perfect sense to me (?)
3. Uhm, what? I was just trying to make clear what I said in case you had misread (which I assumed, else it would be an intentional misrep), that doesn't fall under defensive in my book, I keep explaining it because GG attacked me for it and I didn't understand why.

1. Two null tells don't add up to a scum picture, 0 + 0 = 0
2.

I

am the one claiming your reasoning is unique. And you can't argue with that - your only reasons were 'over defensiveness' and 'over explanation' both of which are things that nobody else had/has accused me of in this game. I still think this is an attempt to avoid opportunism accusations.
3. You answered your question in your own post. GG was attacking you. You tried to clarify what you had said because he was attacking you. I see a self-defense motive there. And not one very different from mine.

Well, you saying this gives one motivation, that's what WIFOM does. You are using the argument "I wouldn't do this as scum", which just doesn't work.

I used the "I wouldn't do this as scum" argument, yes, but I also used the "I wouldn't do this as town" argument (in parentheses). There wasn't motivation for me, as either alignment, to commit the two actions in question.

[MTD]

no no. perhaps i should have been more explicit.

you're

saying

all your reads are gut. but you still aren't analyzing anything.

Wat?

What are you trying to say?

you think i am scumreading you because i think you are playing from gut. the point was not that i think you are playing from gut; i see that you are saying you are playing from gut (i.e. i don't believe you actually are) because even if you were reading people from gut you'd be analyzing the wagons and the direction other people are going in (like we are, like others are) but you aren't. the fact that this is an inherent quality of your town game means it should be present at least partially, especially if you say that this is something new you are trying, but its completely absent, so really the only answer is that you are lying.

Uhm, no?
Like, in my posts, what do you find?
I scumread wicked, partially for gut reasons.
I asked you for a case.
I questioned mastin's reads, I questioned vezok's unvote.
I talked about mastin-meta.
I townread ZZZX and SS.
I questioned Titus' townreading mastin.
The rest is followup to these I think.

So really, I see quite some "analyzing directions others are going in".
Not that much "analyzing wagons" since I usually do that with wagons that I don't like the speed of, which wasn't the case here yet.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

empty questioning != analysis.

plus i agree with all of AP's reads which we arrived at independently so most of them are probably right

[MTD]

empty questioning != analysis.

plus i agree with all of AP's reads which we arrived at independently so most of them are probably right

-.-

I agree with some of them as well and guess what, I got to them independently as well o.o doesn't mean they are right though.

[MTD]

1. You are right, they aren't definitive scumtells, yet they do add up to a picture of you being scum.
2. I never claim that my reasoning is unique, neither did I claim that I read "just enough" for that, but srsly, the way you put it it makes perfect sense to me (?)
3. Uhm, what? I was just trying to make clear what I said in case you had misread (which I assumed, else it would be an intentional misrep), that doesn't fall under defensive in my book, I keep explaining it because GG attacked me for it and I didn't understand why.

1. Two null tells don't add up to a scum picture, 0 + 0 = 0
2.

I

am the one claiming your reasoning is unique. And you can't argue with that - your only reasons were 'over defensiveness' and 'over explanation' both of which are things that nobody else had/has accused me of in this game. I still think this is an attempt to avoid opportunism accusations.
3. You answered your question in your own post. GG was attacking you. You tried to clarify what you had said because he was attacking you. I see a self-defense motive there. And not one very different from mine.

1.God, please do read next time, I did not say they are null tells, i said they are not

definitive

scummtells. They are things that make me lean scum.
2. Ok, I had not much of an idea what the others' reasoning was at that point but w/e
3. Lol, still very different. I got attacked

for

trying to clarify something, then proceed to clarify because I assume the attacker didn't understand. You got attacked for multiple things.

All in all, yeah, you might be nulltown.
UNVOTE:

Well, you saying this gives one motivation, that's what WIFOM does. You are using the argument "I wouldn't do this as scum", which just doesn't work.

I used the "I wouldn't do this as scum" argument, yes, but I also used the "I wouldn't do this as town" argument (in parentheses). There wasn't motivation for me, as either alignment, to commit the two actions in question.

Right about the first one.
Second one, yes there would be scum motivation, obviously (how

would

you even suspct them before voting?).
But ok, thanks.

I like GG as town.

mastin not so much, her posting didn't get any better, just more...

VOTE: mastin

I also don't like vezok's hop onto my wagon.

[mastin2]

why didn't you answer the question? Was he scum or town there?

Not that hard to check, y'know. He already said he was town, there.

So instead you have me as your second strongest suspect.

No, I have you as vaguely suspicious but maybe not.

2. How is my play different here? Or do you agree that I'm playing the same way?

That'd require me to actually remember the game in detail, and to do serious analysis and to also assume your play wouldn't change over the years and also assume your scumplay would be markably different and as you can see by all of these qualifiers, that kind of judgement is kinda worthless to make.

You're a meh-read. You could be town. Could be scum. Your posting vaguely looks scum. Knowing your posting vaguely looked scum as town previously plus the wagon and reasons on you casts some doubt on it. Haven't really bothered to form a conclusion one way or the other.

mastin not so much, her posting didn't get any better, just more...
VOTE: mastin
I also don't like vezok's hop onto my wagon.

Any one of these three wouldn't be a problem. Any combo of two (or all three) creates problems. Vezok hopped onto MTD's wagon--fine to dislike, except Vezok's previous vote was on me, who MTD just voted rather than voting for Vezok. He votes the person Vezok is also scumreading strongly.

My posting doesn't get any better--not true, but fine. It also hasn't gotten worse, just more of it as MTD said. That'd be fine if MTD had a marked scumread of me, OR if MTD left the comment at just that. But MTD's previous thoughts on me were, "This isn't like either of Mastin's games I've played with her, but it's especially not like her scumgame", last I checked. Meaning that if my posting was weird-but-maybe-town and hadn't changed, MTD's position also wouldn't have changed.

[mastin2]

Oh, heck with it.

I know there's a wagon there already, but I feel like voting there anyway.

VOTE: MTD.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I just logged over to call Mastin town. Then she goes and votes MTD. Now I can't call her town without people saying Im only doing it because shes voting my favorite pick for scum.

Mastin, gun to your head, read on Mollie? Im waffling on Majiffy, but still leaning town.

[mastin2]

Mastin, gun to your head, read on Mollie?

Please note that I say this with the understanding that it's not just a gun to my head, but that the hammer has been cocked and the trigger is micrometers away from launching the bullet into my head, AND that my will to live is at its all-time highest and I never more than ever want to live and that declaration is what my life depends upon.

...Got it?
Town.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

That post made me smile.

Spoiler: Do not read this spoiler if you are mollie

Mollie is my secret null-scum read. Snork also thought she was scummy. I dont really have any interest in pursuing it Today so I dont have any intent of talking to Mollie about my read on her Today. I just thought her "lol mastin since when did you lose your ability to read AP" looked potentially from scum. and I havent seen anything that looks super town from her yet. Looks kind of like Xenosaga to me a little but its far too early to tell.

Mollie if you are town and clicked this spoile then
1) shame on you
2) I have zero interest in discussing my read on you Today.

[MTD]

Any one of these three wouldn't be a problem. Any combo of two (or all three) creates problems. Vezok hopped onto MTD's wagon--fine to dislike, except Vezok's previous vote was on me, who MTD just voted rather than voting for Vezok. He votes the person Vezok is also scumreading strongly.

My posting doesn't get any better--not true, but fine. It also hasn't gotten worse, just more of it as MTD said. That'd be fine if MTD had a marked scumread of me, OR if MTD left the comment at just that. But MTD's previous thoughts on me were, "This isn't like either of Mastin's games I've played with her, but it's especially not like her scumgame", last I checked. Meaning that if my posting was weird-but-maybe-town and hadn't changed, MTD's position also wouldn't have changed.

I don't see why I would vote for any of vezok or you rather than the other one when I think one of you is probably scum but not both (?)

Nah, your half-assing in specific was "not explainable from meta", I didn't specifically talk about your towngame because the scumgame was closer to this (in the towngame you were invested and constructive). So, no. Also my position would have changed, it has. You posting bad in the beginning and then calling your own reads bad and half-assed

might

be ok, then continuing to play like that isn't.

[Speedy Saki]

I like wicked for town

I like GG posts

The only thing I am seeing inconsistent is that GG campaigning for mtd but no voting him? Like what?!

[Guilty Gunsmith]

The only thing I am seeing inconsistent is that GG campaigning for mtd but no voting him? Like what?!

UNVOTE: ; VOTE: MTD

[Speedy Saki]

Oh I'm sorry you did that kinda late

^o^

[Speedy Saki]

Like you were pushing a lot before you voted but that's forgivable since you haven't caught up yet

[Antihero]

Jacobsen-Katsuki Epoxidation

Vote Count 1.4

Bipolarchemist - 1 (PeregrineV)
Guilty Gunsmith - 1 (Titus)
mastin2 - 2 (Perpetual Nonsense, MTD)
MTD - 5 (Wickedestjr, Speedy Saki, Guilty Gunsmith, vezokpiraka, mastin2)
Titus - 1 (pirate mollie)
Wickedestjr - 3 (Doduo, Lying Cat, Majiffy)

Not Voting: beastcharizard, Bipolarchemist, zabriel, ZZZX

9 to lynch. Deadline: (expired on 2014-06-09 12:00:54)

[Majiffy]

Spoiler: MTD shit

snip

You're confbiasing.

Though I agree, I disagree that this means MTD suspicion is invalid altogether.

Agreed.

Closest they have to shit-posting is their lack of stronger presence in-thread.

As I said. Not feeling the townz.
I normally feel the townz.

I have no idea what game you're reading but it's clearly not this one.

I've been incredibly transparent, Mastin.

Then why do I know absolutely nothing about most of your reads?

Because you haven't been reading my posts, despite insisting that you are.

I know not a single valid reason for one of your town reads. Not one.

Show the invalid ones, then. I've explained every read that people have asked me to explain.

I already have, and you still have failed to offer a valid reason for the Doduo townread.

[Majiffy]

Oh, heck with it.

I know there's a wagon there already, but I feel like voting there anyway.

VOTE: MTD.

Thanks for confirming my scumread on you.

VOTE: Mastin

No way TownMastin gives up a push on ScumMajiffy she's sure about to push a meh scumread on MTD.

I just logged over to call Mastin town. Then she goes and votes MTD. Now I can't call her town without people saying Im only doing it because shes voting my favorite pick for scum.

Stahp.

Read above.

[Wickedestjr]

Ok, I had not much of an idea what the others' reasoning was at that point but w/e

You not fully understanding the others' reasoning strengthens my point against you. And your vote now looks even more opportunistic.

Second one, yes there would be scum motivation, obviously (how would you even suspct them before voting?).

The question was actually: "Why would I vote Lying Cat if I didn't suspect them?" There's no scum motive that I can see - I honestly have no idea why scum would vote somebody that they don't suspect. But Vezok said that he doesn't believe Lying Cat was my top suspect even though I voted him and expressed suspicion of nobody else. Vezok's thought process doesn't make sense to me.

[Wickedestjr]

So instead you have me as your second strongest suspect.

No, I have you as vaguely suspicious but maybe not.

I don't believe you. In post 242 you posted a list of the players that had contributed. Vezok, your strongest town read iirc was at the top of the list. Doduo and ZZZX, who you labeled as definite town reads, were second and third on the list. Scrolling down, Majiffy, your vote at that point, was at the very bottom of the list. Guilty Gunsmith, another slot that you had voted, was third from the bottom. It really looked like you ordered it from most townish at top down to most scummy at bottom. My name was second from the bottom. You literally had me below a player that you had voted, which implies that I was in vote-worthy territory in your mind as well as your second strongest suspect. Either you changed your mind or you're being dishonest, but iirc you didn't mention any reason for changing your mind.

Unvote. Vote: mastin2

2. How is my play different here? Or do you agree that I'm playing the same way?

That'd require me to actually remember the game in detail, and to do serious analysis and to also assume your play wouldn't change over the years and also assume your scumplay would be markably different and as you can see by all of these qualifiers, that kind of judgement is kinda worthless to make.

I'm not gonna force you to analyze and can respect if you don't have the time, but I disagree with your conclusion here. I'm arguing that my play hasn't changed so you shouldn't have to worry about play changing 'over the years'. Also, I've played five or six games since then only one of which I was scum in, ftr.

[Metal Sonic]

Wicked is good

He modded perpetual mylo

[Speedy Saki]

Why is Mastin being a bigger town read than mtd?

@Wicked

[Speedy Saki]

* scum read

Sorry

[Antihero]

Wicked is good

He modded perpetual mylo

Hey you.

Get back in your hydra, Mr. Piss-a-bed.