Newbie 1505 (Game Over)

[OkaPoka]

bulba, your opinion on kyndy?

[kyndy101]

Alright then, go ahead and vote me.
I just see that your personality has changed completely from being conftown last game to question marks this game. Before you were confident (with good reason), but now you are edgy, cautious, and just... I don't know, you just... I just have a feeling that you are scum. I'm not saying anyone else should follow what I think, I just truly have a feeling that you are scum. :/

[Zaicon]

Vote Count 1.3

OkaPoka (3):

Bulbazak, mallowgeno, kyndy101

AxleGreaser (2):

reissebach, 3dicerolling

mallowgeno (1):

AxleGreaser

kyndy101 (1):

OkaPoka

No Vote (2):

Doogal121, mishai

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Friday, Jun 6, at 7:00 PM CDT, which is in (expired on 2014-06-06 19:00:00).

Cool, everyone's back. I'm going to set deadline approx. one week from today.

[AxleGreaser]

Hey guys, was having trouble connecting back after the site was up. will be catching up later, busy atm. Just letting you know I"m back!

taking this as promise of another post, that will be "catching up later"

unvote

(mallow)

[Bulbazak]

bulba, your opinion on kyndy?

Frustrated town.

[OkaPoka]

And you won't lie about stuff like this right?

[Bulbazak]

I'm not permitted to lie about game theory. Everything else is fair game, although that is how I'm reading Kyndy.

[OkaPoka]

Ehhhhhh, now I feel confused.

In a scum's perspective, what would be their first choice of action based on game theory, would they be okay with any vote as long it wasn't their team? (AKA no lying)

[reissebach]

@bulba,

This is the last time I am going to comment on this apparent discrepancy. I was not mad at axle for not properly answering the original question, however, 3dice was, and it was his question, so if 3dice believes axle was dodging the question, then that means that axle needs to explain further rather than avoiding the continued questioning

The point of post 166 was to try and move the game along from what I saw as a standstill between axle and 3dice

[3dicerolling]

This Oka wagon still blows.

[AxleGreaser]

@kyndy

before the break I asked (it appears to have been overlooked) (this is it again trimmed/fixed it a bit)

(I'd like an answer today(next time your on even), I not only want to work out who to lynch today(and I have indicated who(pool of two)), I also want to clean up as many loose ends like this unanswered question as possible.)

I don't know about you guys, but I think that Axle and Oka could be scumbuddies. They are always agreeing on the same things and shooting out the same people for questioning,

defending each other if someone questions one,

and I don't think Oka nor Axle have questioned each other. Axle and Oka scum maybe?

I dunno. :/ Just putting the thought out there if it isn't already.

Please show me where I. as you understand it, I (Axle) defended Oka.

aka please explain what that detail of your post means.

[mallowgeno]

Dang internet cut out and didn't let me quote everything, let's start off with this:

@bulba
I would also like to say that I do not see myself as confirmed town yet.

I know Bulba brought this up before but what exactly do you mean by you don't see yourself as confirmed town?

Policy lynches are stupid.

Agreed.

Annnd to move this along,

VOTE: okapoka

Would like more reasoning on this.

I swear I had a few more quotes, ima go back and see if I can find them...

[reissebach]

@mallow

I'm pretty sure I covered this already, but I meant that there is no concrete information proving I'm town yet. I realize that I'm town, but there is no reason except for my word that you should cross me off your list of potential suspects.

[reissebach]

Due to some personal matters, I will unfortunately be un available for the next 5 or 6 days. Hopefully it will be five and I would get a chance to get back to the forum before the deadline, but there is the possibility that i would not...

I completely understand if you all feel the need to replace me, although I would prefer to remain in the game.

I will probably be available until 3 a.m. site time tonight or maybe slightly later, I will try to stay online as much as possible to discuss my possibly final reads as well as the future of my slot due to this inconvenience.

I am very sorry, this is not the way I wanted to begin my first game on site, but I hope to discuss the game with as many of you as possible in the next 3+ hours

[reissebach]

@mod. You should probably see the previous post.

[3dicerolling]

Tell me why I should vote Oka, Bulba.

[kyndy101]

@kyndy

before the break I asked (it appears to have been overlooked) (this is it again trimmed/fixed it a bit)

(I'd like an answer today(next time your on even), I not only want to work out who to lynch today(and I have indicated who(pool of two)), I also want to clean up as many loose ends like this unanswered question as possible.)

I don't know about you guys, but I think that Axle and Oka could be scumbuddies. They are always agreeing on the same things and shooting out the same people for questioning,

defending each other if someone questions one,

and I don't think Oka nor Axle have questioned each other. Axle and Oka scum maybe?

I dunno. :/ Just putting the thought out there if it isn't already.

Please show me where I. as you understand it, I (Axle) defended Oka.

aka please explain what that detail of your post means.

Oh! Sorry, I missed this.


Alright, so I don't know what I was thinking when I originally posted that. But, I do think you both are scumbuddies.
So, that defending each other... I feel like it was one-sided. Oka was defending you, but to make it seem less scummy, you tried to distance yourself from Oka by not defending him... I don't know, those were my thoughts ages ago. I can't really answer questions that well either, sorry I cannot be more help to you. But I feel like this is a big-brother little-brother thing where the big-brother (you) is shhhh-ing the little brother (Oka) from doing anything wrong. Gosh, I'm the worst at explaining my thoughts. But, something like that... Wish I was better at explaining, but that's the only way I can think it..




Oh, and also people, I'm getting surgery on my scoliosis on Friday, so obviously I will probably not be able to be on here for at most a week. But I might be able to have my brother bring me my phone or something in the hospital. I'll be pretty much free until then.

[AxleGreaser]

This previous post of mine is a pretty good reason to either vote to lynch or at least run a wagon on someone

Spoiler: claiming "purposeful dodging" and when asked since having squat as reasoning to support it

technical Note: spoilers in this post have been spoiled (converted to spoiler2) as quoting posts with spoilers breaks the formatting)

@reissebach

You have said that I 128 did clear it up for you...
[spoiler2="128 did clear it up for me."]

First of all, what is TL:DR? Should I know that?

Second @axle, I couldn't really understand post 126 too well due to the massive amounts of information that didn't have to do with the question, but 128 did clear it up for me.
However, it doesn't matter if I understand your answer so much as if 3dice understands your answer.

[/spoiler2]

yet 166 claims
[spoiler2="you purposely dodge it for this long"]

@axle

l don't know which questions are going to he useful, its just that when somebody asks you a question and you purposely dodge it for this long, that's a red flag for me

[/spoiler2]

how can you be claiming I am dodging the question when you also previously claim I cleared it up for you. (aka I have already answered the question as you understand it)

Here is his most recent NON explanation.
A later reply says [....] is where I removed stuff for brevity / go to post 208 if you ant to see it all (color coding matches comments to post text)

@bulba,

[....]

(#1)I was not mad at axle for not properly answering the original question,

(#2) however, 3dice was, and it was his question, so if 3dice believes axle was dodging the question,

(#3)then that means that axle needs to explain further rather than avoiding the continued questioning

(#4)The point of post 166 was to try and move the game along from what I saw as a standstill between axle and 3dice

(#1)Mad is a brand new concept,

and he never seemed mad, claiming you are not something there was never suggestion you were is not an explanation at all why he claimed I was

purposefuly dodging

. This is weaselling out of the scum's mistake.

(#2)I cant speak for 3Dice but I dont remember 3Dice being any of the things Reissebach is attributing to him.

(#4)That is not how you get things to move... that is how you as scum throw petrol on something.(act as a heckling mob)

(#3)I do indeed need to continue the discussion with 3D. I need to do so that both I and everyone else watching what happens can determine both my and 3 Dices alignment

Reissebach has no such dilema he already knows 3Dices alignment.

Reissebach knows 3Dices alignment and has no such questions because Reissebach is scum.

Reissebach has decided who he wants to accuse as scum and has been retrofitting the facts to suit his scum read, not examining the thread to find out who is scum.


VOTE: Vote reissebach

I explicitly qualify this as a vote with the stated intention for this to be the guy lynched today.

<I have seen reissebach's recent posts 213/214 about things happening in a place outside the game. They are not relevant to me. If I could work around them

without

materially affecting the game then that would be fine, as its all fun anyway. (see doogal) however Reissebach is and has been my prefered lynch for today for a little while now.>

[3dicerolling]

Okay yeah, I like axle a lot more with that recent post. I need to read back over some of Reisse's posts, but I find a lot of what Axle pointed out was true, and even though his lengthiness annoys me sometimes, I'm not going to let that cloud my judgement.

Unvote: AxleGreaser

I don't want to lynch axle or oka today.

[AxleGreaser]

Stuff i hope is not relevant to todays lynch but things I want to have resolved before tomorrow.

@ kyndy101

Spoiler: Kyndy stuff (TLDR: HUH??)

Alright, so I don't know what I was thinking when I originally posted that. But, I do think you both are scumbuddies.

That Ok I have no idea what you are thinking now...

So, that defending each other... I feel like it was one-sided. Oka was defending you, but to make it seem less scummy,

Scum often do things to either townies or scum. Dtermingin my alignment by examining Okas actions is BAD logic. please dont do that.

you tried to distance yourself from Oka by not defending him... I don't know, those were my thoughts ages ago.

Whaaaaaaaat? If I had defended him then to you I would be scum and now that you notice i am not defending him I am still scum because of the opposite. You cant be serious.

I can't really answer questions that well either, sorry I cannot be more help to you. But I feel like this is a big-brother little-brother thing where the big-brother (you) is shhhh-ing the little brother (Oka) from doing anything wrong. Gosh, I'm the worst at explaining my thoughts. But, something like that... Wish I was better at explaining, but that's the only way I can think it..

Ok find where I did that.... "big-brother little-brother thing " and ask me questions to try and find out if you current GUESS at my motivation is accurate, or do I have reasons for everything I did that you apparently are unaware of.
What I have done, that you may have mistaken for that, is tried to make sure that people who either appeared or tried to portray themselves as weaker/inexperienced players were not simply rail roaded. I did that with reissbach by providing the links on looking for scum motivation, and an example of finding a scum tell. (normally, I'd have kept the tell in post 32 to myself and seen if it turned into more.)
TBMK I did very little with Oka, except ask every pertinent question that I thought I should.

While that is kind of a distraction from what I expect is todays Lynch, you doing stuff that is towny in order to find stuff out, is how you find styuff out, and also how people find you to be towny.

Do note that in my case with you it is backfiring, If as you thought i defended Oka I am scummy, now you notice I didnt defend him thats scummy too.....
Are you sure you are serious....

You appear to have decided I am scum and be trying to stick facts any fact onto it.
If the rest of your filter did not appear to contain reasonably accurate observations id be way more.... worried by this. Later in the game someone else may be as well.

[AxleGreaser]

GAK. I broke the quotes and attributions in my previous post. EBWOP to fix it. (+twiddles)

Stuff i hope is not relevant to todays lynch but things I want to have resolved before tomorrow.

@ kyndy101

Spoiler: Kyndy stuff (TLDR: HUH??)

Alright, so I don't know what I was thinking when I originally posted that. But, I do think you both are scumbuddies.

(I suspect you will find it is well known that "pre flip association cases" are just "bad towny mafia play", you need to work out why i am scum and why the other guy is scum separately)
(even when some first scum flips, it is still hard to read associations)

That is Ok I have currently no idea what you are thinking now... (makes no sense to me as town or scum from you)

So, that defending each other... I feel like it was one-sided. Oka was defending you, but to make it seem less scummy,

Scum often do things to either townies or scum. Determining my alignment by examining Okas actions is BAD logic. please dont do that.

you tried to distance yourself from Oka by not defending him... I don't know, those were my thoughts ages ago.

Whaaaaaaaat? If I had defended him then to you I would be scum and now that you notice (oops you wer wrong) I am not defending him I am still scum because of the opposite. You cant be serious.
So is reissbach scum because he didnt defend him too? WAT.

I can't really answer questions that well either, sorry I cannot be more help to you. But I feel like this is a big-brother little-brother thing where the big-brother (you) is shhhh-ing the little brother (Oka) from doing anything wrong. Gosh, I'm the worst at explaining my thoughts. But, something like that... Wish I was better at explaining, but that's the only way I can think it..

Ok find where I did that.... "big-brother little-brother thing " and ask me questions to try and find out if you current GUESS at my motivation is accurate, or do I have reasons for everything I did that you apparently are unaware of.
What I have done, that you may have mistaken for that, is tried to make sure that people who either appeared or tried to portray themselves as weaker/inexperienced players were not simply rail roaded. I did that with reissbach by providing the links on looking for scum motivation, and an example of finding a scum tell. (normally, I'd have kept the tell in post 32 to myself and seen if it turned into more.)
TBMK I did very little with Oka, except ask every pertinent question that I thought I should.

While that is kind of a distraction from what I expect is going in the end to be todays Lynch, you doing stuff that is towny in order to find stuff out, is how you find stuff out, and also how people find you to be towny.

Do note that in my case with you it is backfiring, If as you thought i defended Oka I am scummy, now you notice I didnt defend him thats scummy too.....
Are you sure you are serious....

You appear to have decided I am scum and be trying to stick facts, any fact onto it.
If the rest of your filter did not appear to contain reasonably accurate observations id be way more.... worried by this. Later in the game someone else may be worried by it as well.

[AxleGreaser]

[...] I need to read back over some of Reisse's posts, but I find a lot of what Axle pointed out was true, and even though his lengthiness annoys me sometimes, I'm not going to let that cloud my judgement. [...]

QFT.

Your statement that you (ALL) need to go back over "over some of Reisse's posts," and see if what I said is true.
is truth...
You should also read the rest of the reissebach ISO

I purposefully have not cited all the evidence, I want you to form your own opinions and post them.
I expect your opinions(unless they differ from mine) will need to be about the rest of the ISO, as i kind of analysed that bit to death.

This Oka wagon still blows.

You have said that and said you "dont want to lynch oka today"

I'd like at least some reasons why you say it blows as a lynch today.

[OkaPoka]

I assume RVS is over but, don't vote Reisse until he is back so he can provide a proper argument, I am still fishy about mallow and kyndy for their small scumslips which might reveal. Here is my read on Reissebach:

Opens the game very anti lynch, seems like a newb town play, or just a paranoid player. Also could be used for town credit. I don't like how he opens with a no lynch and immediately votes, stating he hates wagons. It just seems like he is trying to take some town credit. Anti Axle for some reason, he just immediately assumes I am scum without CLEARLY stating in his post why I am scum, so assumes Axle is scum. I suspect he has information we don't know about.

I can only assume Reisse is scum or a powerrole in some way for his paranoid plays. Which I am NOT willing to gamble on a reisse lynch.

[OkaPoka]

Axle never sheep the IC, ask him questions but don't trust him.

In my previous game I almost lost to an IC scum.

I actually like researching player history and how they play, to me it is seemed as town, just my thought.

This Reissebach on needing to lynch Axle while Axle pushing Reissebach seems like they are trying to distance each other a bit too much.

So far the possibilities of scum to me are
Reissebach/Axle team
Kyndy???
Mallow???

[Bulbazak]

In a scum's perspective, what would be their first choice of action based on game theory, would they be okay with any vote as long it wasn't their team? (AKA no lying)

This is a difficult question, as many players play differently, and there are many variables to consider. The ultimate goal for scum is to blend in and appear town, make it to Lylo, and survive. I really can't give you that much help on how best to play scum. It's one of those things you figure out as you go, and it is still difficult to master. There are some things I can say are ideal are not, but you'd have to ask me about those specific situations. If you want more help, I'd suggest you check out the Mafia Discussion section and see if there's an article that answers your question. I know that Mastin has written several articles on how to best play as scum.

This is the last time I am going to comment on this apparent discrepancy. I was not mad at axle for not properly answering the original question, however, 3dice was, and it was his question, so if 3dice believes axle was dodging the question, then that means that axle needs to explain further rather than avoiding the continued questioning

I don't care if 3dice thought he was dodging. You, obviously, did not. Therefore, if you didn't think he was dodging, then you shouldn't have been calling him scum for dodging.

Tell me why I should vote Oka, Bulba.

I summarize it here:

What is your main arguments in thinking I am scummy?

You've pushed to cut town's information short. I'd buy it being a legit question the first time, not so much the second time. You are also overjustifying yourself. This reads more as pushing for a lynch at all costs, rather than just scumhunting and trying to figure out motivation. This is apparent in your Doogal vote, where you rely on a logical fallacy to make your push seem more legit than it actually is. Finally, when the wagon starts to build up, you start panicking. You're not defending yourself. Rather, you're saying things like "All d1 lynches are generally mislynches." and "I'm at L-1. Aren't you concerned about someone hammering?". You're trying to manipulate the lynch off of you, whereas town would be looking at the reasons why people are voting them.

I also think he was trying to find a backdoor to accusing me through his IC questions.