Newbie 1505 (Game Over)

[Bulbazak]

He says, lets have a move on this without stating reasoning.

"Annd to move this along" isn't the most logical reasoning ever.

But it's understandable after the site had been down after a week. I got antsy and impatient myself.

[AxleGreaser]

Coming at the reisse question a different way

In trying to work out how to most reliably (least chance of a mislynch) push the lynch of reissebach's earlier plays there is the obvious problem of he is not here to explain them and Xay may not be able to either.

However:

Reis - I actually am getting a

strong town

read here.

Play seems genuine.

@3DiceRolling

Can you please explain in terms of the posts that came before that(post 94), what your "strong town" / "Play seems genuine." interpretation of the posts was based on.

Yeah I am fully aware i want to lynch that slot, and I am fishing for someone to present the other side.
I also dont care if you later or right now also want to present what is your current interpretation of those posts (and it is different that is entirely reasonable)

However as you made that post earlier, I expect you as a towny to be able to explain what it means. (which specific reisse bits support (caused you to have) your observations)

Spoiler: a secondary(significantly less important) reason

Why do you always assume the person I vote I think is scum?

Well I dont, but id like some way to know who you think is scum as I see one too many unexplained gut read town reads to make me happy.

[kyndy101]

He says, lets have a move on this without stating reasoning.

"Annd to move this along" isn't the most logical reasoning ever.

But it's understandable after the site had been down after a week. I got antsy and impatient myself.

And also, I ask that you please take into consideration the fact that I explained like two or three posts later.

I would push for a lynch too if I think someone is scum

Exactly.

[3dicerolling]

As helpful as the advice was, I'm starting to find axlegreaser's interactions and arguments a little over the top.

unvote

VOTE: axlegreaser

This and some of Reisse's early posts rung genuine to me. A lot of my early Reisse read was mainly strong in gut and not in reasoning.

Why do you feel the need to address something that was meant for bulba?

After a re-read of Reisse, I don't see why he would spend so much time concentrated on a certain question I had. He portrayed me incorrectly multiple times by saying I was "mad" or something like that. Since newb-scum knows who is town it would actually make more sense for Reisse to be defending me, rather than just letting my questions be answered naturally. I'm interested to see what Xay has to bring, but for now I agree with Axle.

VOTE: Xayeck

One thing that has been bothering me though is the amount axle has been associating himself with bulba. I'm not entirely sure what to think of it atm.

[OkaPoka]

I dunno, my suspicions have been high the whole game, and since the deadline was a while ago, I might as well cast my vote. That's what I thought, anyways. :/

Alright then, go ahead and vote me.
I just see that your personality has changed completely from being conftown last game to question marks this game. Before you were confident (with good reason), but now you are edgy, cautious, and just... I don't know, you just... I just have a feeling that you are scum. I'm not saying anyone else should follow what I think, I just truly have a feeling that you are scum. :/

@kyndy

before the break I asked (it appears to have been overlooked) (this is it again trimmed/fixed it a bit)

(I'd like an answer today(next time your on even), I not only want to work out who to lynch today(and I have indicated who(pool of two)), I also want to clean up as many loose ends like this unanswered question as possible.)

I don't know about you guys, but I think that Axle and Oka could be scumbuddies. They are always agreeing on the same things and shooting out the same people for questioning,

defending each other if someone questions one,

and I don't think Oka nor Axle have questioned each other. Axle and Oka scum maybe?

I dunno. :/ Just putting the thought out there if it isn't already.

Please show me where I. as you understand it, I (Axle) defended Oka.

aka please explain what that detail of your post means.

Oh! Sorry, I missed this.


Alright, so I don't know what I was thinking when I originally posted that. But, I do think you both are scumbuddies.
So, that defending each other... I feel like it was one-sided. Oka was defending you, but to make it seem less scummy, you tried to distance yourself from Oka by not defending him... I don't know, those were my thoughts ages ago. I can't really answer questions that well either, sorry I cannot be more help to you. But I feel like this is a big-brother little-brother thing where the big-brother (you) is shhhh-ing the little brother (Oka) from doing anything wrong. Gosh, I'm the worst at explaining my thoughts. But, something like that... Wish I was better at explaining, but that's the only way I can think it..




Oh, and also people, I'm getting surgery on my scoliosis on Friday, so obviously I will probably not be able to be on here for at most a week. But I might be able to have my brother bring me my phone or something in the hospital. I'll be pretty much free until then.

All of that?

[OkaPoka]

Lets see this.
Post 197: So you might as well just put your vote in?
201: Last game I have said before conftown allows me more freedoms, and importantly confidence that what I see will not be misinterpreted.
216: As I said before, you magically assume that Axle is magically scum and I am magically scum without any reasoning but me defending him. If I defend someone who I truly believe is town, he doesn't have to do the same, and I am allowed to do that. According to your logic Xay and you are scum because Xay protected you.

[Xayzeck]

I don't see how my scumreading Oka means I can't scumread you. I also don't see how my reasons for voting someone who is not you applies to you, especially since I removed that vote upon your replace in to give you room to change my mind. Besides, if you really wanted to know my reasoning, you could have read the thread or read me in ISO. Instead you showed a high level of self-consciousness in the form of a case that was no longer relevant.

Holy shit

I asked you what the vote had to do with the quote above said vote

And this is the response I get?

Did you roll scum or are you purposely not answering a question I have?

Heck I dont even know whats going on in this quote

[Bulbazak]

I asked you what the vote had to do with the quote above said vote

No you didn't. And if so, please rephrase in a way that I may actually understand what you're talking about.

[Xayzeck]

I can only assume Reisse is scum or a powerrole in some way for his paranoid plays. Which I am NOT willing to gamble on a reisse lynch.

Unvote

Vote Reissebach

I do not understand how okas quote prompted you to vote for reisse, or whether the two are unrelated.

Can you explain this?

[Bulbazak]

I can only assume Reisse is scum or a powerrole in some way for his paranoid plays. Which I am NOT willing to gamble on a reisse lynch.

Unvote

Vote Reissebach

I do not understand how okas quote prompted you to vote for reisse, or whether the two are unrelated.

Can you explain this?

Not at this time.

[3dicerolling]

@Mod - It's been 4 days. Can we get a prod on Mishai please?

[AxleGreaser]

As helpful as the advice was, I'm starting to find axlegreaser's interactions and arguments a little over the top.

unvote

VOTE: axlegreaser

This and some of Reisse's early posts rung genuine to me. A lot of my early Reisse read was mainly strong in gut and not in reasoning.

That was good (as yes I was over the top at that point) (I can also see that him pushing what you thought was good point, looks town)
but...
Some of Reisses even earlier posts rung exactly as not genuine to me, so you explaining which other ones rang genuine, and then me understanding why that point of view, will clarify my read of you.
AND
make me clearer on my (early D1) read on Xay/Reiss slot.

cont next post as it is a separate subject?

[3dicerolling]

This is my first game of online mafia, but I have played a lot un real life. I'm not sure how different the strategy is, but it seems to me that no lynch is our best option. Odds are almost 80% that we would lynch town with no information, and actually the mafia do have information because they know who each other are.
After all that I have to say

vote: no lynch

please correct me if I'm wrong about all of this.

I agree that we should use the whole 2 weeks to get to know each other better, but it still seems like we probably wont lynch scum. As to LYLO vs. MYLO, that argument only works in column B without the doctor, jailkeeper, or bullet proof.

However, in the spirit of trying to get as much info as possible, ill change my vote to

vote: kyndy

because nobody has voted for her and I don't want to join any wagon.

These two also rang pretty genuine to me.

Also, I don't get your last sentence.

[AxleGreaser]

Sorry you dot get it because i hadnt posted it yet

Why do you feel the need to address something that was meant for bulba?

One thing that has been

bothering me

though is the amount axle has been associating himself with bulba. I'm not entirely sure what to think of it atm.

I cant marry this question of yours with the surrounding context (post 278) at all.

What was meant for Bulbazak?
In post 276
My quote was from your post which was in reply to Doogal's question.
My last post was me driving my wagon on Reisse/Xay forward, by trying to get some counterpoint to balance the next part of my case on early D1 Reisse play. I see no Bulba?

Is that question a reference back to your earlier question about when me when I was thinking its perhaps plausible ... blah blah?
If so I will reply to that?
If that is not what you are talking about, what was "meant for Bulba?"

Re: What is

bothering you

. (and I can think of things that might perhaps plausibly bother a towny you...)
While you are nice and distanced from that, what do you think you could do to find out?
Please clarify what

associating

you think I have been doing.....
I have rather persistently been trying to work out his alignment with a number of rather subtle strategies based on rather lot of reading of his previous games....
(as I am newb here its possible my strategies are all BS... but I think not)
Some of that is in the form of

I need to know if I do X do you do Y or Z.

be aware, *I* made sure there is a space after the hammer is decided to fall but before twilight officially starts, where I can clarify stuff that is not relevant to todays lynch but may well be relevant to tomorrow.
So you can choose whether to pursue this now or later.
If we get too close to actually running out of time(game deadline), I will just post whatever I best guess think I need to in spoilers marked please ignore me for now

[AxleGreaser]

Hopefully all the links link are to just the right/relevant posts so you can check what i say.

Reissbach 23 29 (the two seem genuine posts)

These two also rang pretty genuine to me.

30 34 (two more posts These are best read in context of the thread and my promptings/questions/suggestions.)

I can see they might, here was my somewhat different take.

A Case for lynching

Reissbach

Xayzeck today: Part 2.

(just the first four posts)

(this bit being so early D1 is kinda hand wavy, but that the scummy problems patterns are consistent adds weight for me)
#1didn't want to scum hunt(a lot), #2 played the newb card when he has played a lot in RL, #3 asked leading (I am a lame duck, look my wing is ALL broken) question fishing for his someone to buddy him.

Spoiler: yeah it big ... too bad.

Wanting not to scum hunt.

(no lynch D1) (post 23)

Playing the “help me / newb card”

(please correct me if I'm wrong about all of this.) (post 23)
Note he says of himself, "but I have played a lot un real life" this is for me important and incongruous.

No wanting to offend anybody by scum hunting them...

(post 29) (soft pedalling the vote)
(It looks like this guy is newb who doesn't know the value of pressuring... BUT he played a lot of RL mafia aka that is BS. And later he demonstrates he can pressure people (aka he pushed me) .... hmmmm. he is scum)

Not scum hunting version2

(post 30) (reasons why he cant scum hunt in forum mafia because that is what he's thinking about, he is not as a towny thinking of ways he can, but reasons/excuses he cant/hasn't)

definitely not scum hunting

Retracts what little vote there was by saying nah dont worrying I was only pretending to vote to pressure for information... (post 34)
(actually i am being generous he says he doesn't want anyone lynched yet, so his vote was simply stalling for the right time?.)
(This is useful as scum so that if they wind up in thee man lylo, and they haven't offended anyone by suspecting them...)

Compare and contrast that with the definitive statements, in post29 where he is sophisticated enough to know that no lynching D1 may not cost town a mislynch if there is a saving role and it succeeds in saving 1 night kill.
Do note. No one should discuss this aspect, think about it but don't give in to role fishing. I can because the WIFOM can is already opened over my head, who knows whether I have a role and assume I am outed, or I dont, and I am fishing to die N1.... Hell sometimes in all the confusion I forget which it is.... (love me some Dirty Harry quotes)

Reissbach starts of with a strangely incongruous post.
It has 3 salient points. He has “

a lot

of RL experience playing mafia”
He has worked out that no lynch is the best option with no information.
“please correct me if I'm wrong about

all

of this.”

and I cant tell you why but one of my immediate thought was maybe he knows he is wrong about

all

of this and wants someone to correct him.
And while that was plausible, the next thing to do is find out ,whether he was timid newb worried it might

all

be wrong or had he played a lot of RL mafia as a fox.

The most likely way that I see that townies have different read to me is they assess Reissbach's skill level as unlikely to be able to do that as scum.
or they just don't think like me.... (and as most people don't think like me... this will be interesting)

also just thought of it. As it was my pre-game intention to actively interact with players learning the game, and realised it was a risk (I could get played, by someone pretending to be a lame duck) perhaps I hair triggered.
However the rest of the filter does not to me tell a different story, and neither does Xays posting so far.

---

@mod: fyi OP doesn't have Xay in it yet.

[Doogal121]

My quick vote summary

Spoiler:

OkaPoka (4): , mallowgeno, kyndy101 ; Bulbazak; Xay
Xay (2): AxleGreaser, 3D
kyndy101 (2): OkaPoka, Doogal121

No Vote (1):, mishai

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

@Axle, may I start by apologizing, I originally discounted your input because your communication skills are horrible. That being said, in all the talking you are doing, it looks like you are scumhunting quite effectively and really giving this game your full attention. You make an excellent case against Xay/Reis and I'm willing to vote to move that wagon along.

Unvote
Vote: Xay

That leaves Oka at L-1 and Xay at L-2 by my count. The deadline is really getting close now so we need to be ready to pull the trigger if need be. I'll ask for clarification on the deadline but I will state that I would prefer an Oka lynch to a no-lynch and I will move my vote in about 24 hours if this Xay wagon doesn't move further down the line.

@Mod: Can we get get an updated vote count
Also, would you prod Mishai and put the deadline in the subject line?
Thirdly, what happens if we don't reach a 5 vote consensus prior to the deadline? Does the highest vote count get lynched or is it a no-lynch?

[Zaicon]

Vote Count 1.5

OkaPoka (4):

mallowgeno, kyndy101, Bulbazak, Xayzeck

Xayzeck (3):

AxleGreaser, 3dicerolling, Doogal121

kyndy101 (1):

OkaPoka

No Vote (1):

mishai

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Friday, Jun 6, at 7:00 PM CDT, which is in (expired on 2014-06-06 19:00:00).

Sorry guys, I've been busy lately. mishai hasn't logged-in since his/her last post, so I'll jump straight to replacing said player.

Thirdly, what happens if we don't reach a 5 vote consensus prior to the deadline? Does the highest vote count get lynched or is it a no-lynch?

It would be a no-lynch.

[mallowgeno]

Why is Mallow scum? He looks pretty town to me.

Why do you always assume the person I vote I think is scum? Sometimes I vote null reads, sometimes I vote leaning scum reads, sometimes I vote straight up scum reads.

And the fact you think mallow looks pretty town bugs me. Read all the posts he has made.

This sounds to me like you are voting town reads as well? You should only vote people who are scum unless you want to apply pressure on someone to get information. And the fact that you feel the need to explain this seems scummy to me.

Also am gonna iso Xayzeck/reissebach

[OkaPoka]

Dayum you guys change fast, I am willing to vote Xay only if you can convince me a lynch is better than a no lynch.

[Doogal121]

Dayum you guys change fast, I am willing to vote Xay only if you can convince me a lynch is better than a no lynch.

What? First off, no lynch is never a good option. We have approx a %25 chance of hitting baddies and that number only gets higher as we talk and try to find scum. Secondly, we know for a fact that (barring a lucky save if such a PR exists) scum will kill tonight and they will only hit town, leaving the town weaker tomorrow (mathematically). Thirdly, we get info from the lynch such as alignment knowledge and interactions/voting to analyze.

Fourthly, and the most important one for you, is that the Xay wagon is the only option you have to save yourself. For purely selfish reasons you should be on it.

[OkaPoka]

Fine, I know I am town and Xay has a 25% of being bad. But don't hammer without intent to.

UNVOTE: Kyndy
VOTE: Xayzeck

[Doogal121]

Ok, we have 2 people at L-1. Somebody from either side switches and the hammer falls.

I am starting to strongly suspect that we have identified the scum team here.

OKA’s hesitation to cast the only vote that would save his own hide is the smoking gun here.

INTENT TO HAMMER: OKA

Unless given strong evidence otherwise, I will vote OKA at noon tomorrow (24 hours from right now).

[Doogal121]

After reviewing everything, I’m fairly sure there is an Oka scum with a Reis bus going on. However, I’m withholding my vote for now because I feel that only scum benefit from a quick lynch. I’m ok with lynching either Oka or Reis, but I’m not going to be the one who hammers.

My analysis will somewhat limited this week, but I will be on as much as a I can.

I’m feeling a pretty good town vibe from Axle and Bulb.

Oka mostly seems like a newish player trying to make (bad) things happen and Reis trying to drag old games up with Alex seems to be looking for ways to cast down on someone I’m getting a town vibe on.

Reis,
You are correct, and that my assumption that Ax is townie is not a solid read. And, I have you (Reis) as a weak scum read, mainly because of the actions of Oka. I'm guessing that Oka is going to end up without any air in his lungs after tonight and, if he flips town, I'll have to change my view of you (Reis)

@3D, you were the first to point the noose at Oka, I'd love you hear what made you vote and how you feel about the following people: (Reis, Bulb, Axle, Mallow)

(Putting names in paren so it's easy to read my thoughts in ISO)

Can I just say that my first 2 posts had both of these identified as scumbuddies?

[AxleGreaser]

Ok, we have 2 people at L-1. Somebody from either side switches and the hammer falls.
I am starting to strongly suspect that we have identified the scum team here.
OKA’s hesitation to cast the only vote that would save his own hide is the smoking gun here.

INTENT TO HAMMER: OKA

Unless given strong evidence otherwise, I will vote OKA at noon tomorrow (24 hours from right now).

Ordinarily(in most games) and I really had double pinky promised myself I would leave no stone unturned D1, thus Id theoretically, have preferred to get input from the replacement.
(however I suspect any input from a replacement at this point would be largely not alignment indicative)

Your argument has merit. and, Irrespective of that its your vote to hammer with.

---

meanwhile. (in this quasi twilight)

@Bulba

Are there any things you would like me to be much more explicitly clear about than I have been during the day.
On the other hand lynching all the scum usually solves all the arguments in any game.

@3D

Are there any things you would like to get a clearer point of view on.
Given the WIFOM can of what role PM I got has been opened over me, then if you actually want clarification on your what bothers you from me then this is the time.
Id suggest that if I die tonight and then it suddenly starts bothering you, and that somehow that means something about Bulb.... then that would make you scum.

So if you have some preflip association stuff, where if I flip town(and i will) then that means.... speak now or dont.

Now I personally think that it would be really hard for you to be scum, as I currently with the information I have, believe the two wagons are both on scum. (but that never happens)

@anyone else

Anything that you want to know?

[AxleGreaser]

Can I just say...

Wise man say.

Flip first crow later.
If crow first flip later, then later you just eat crow.

Axle(NoTheoryToQAbsurdToBeConsidered)Greaser listened.