Why do people play open setups?

[reinoe]

I can't stand the idea of scum being given a list of fake claims. It's hard enough trying to corner scum at L-1 only for them to claim a role handed to them on a silver platter in order to fake claim. And to fake claim a PR at that. If scum get to cornered they should be forced to think about the theme, conjour up something obscure enough to be in the game but not so likely as to be counter-claimed, and hope for the best.

Meanwhile a vanilla townie (or the theme equivalent) gets run up to L-1, claims vanilla townie and gets lynched anyway, because nobody cares about the life of vanilla townie (or the theme equivalent). That's b.s.

[reinoe]

That's why an artful scum claims VT and sells that shit well.

shouldn't work with an at least semi-competent town.

I can't stand the idea of scum being given a list of fake claims. It's hard enough trying to corner scum at L-1 only for them to claim a role handed to them on a silver platter in order to fake claim. And to fake claim a PR at that. If scum get to cornered they should be forced to think about the theme, conjour up something obscure enough to be in the game but not so likely as to be counter-claimed, and hope for the best.
's hard enough trying to corner scum at L-1 only for them to claim a role handed to them on a silver platter in order to fake claim. And to fake claim a PR at that. If scum get to cornered they should be forced to think about the theme, conjour up something obscure enough to be in the game but not so likely as to be counter-claimed, and hope for the best.

i disagree. players shouldn't have to factor flavor meta into their lynch decision. theme mods absolutely should give scum safe flavor claims.

But scum, when cornered, should be forced to think about the game they're playing when they're caught. Fake claims should take effort.

Let's say someone is playing a fictional "super mario RPG mafia". Scum is pretty much caught and at L-1. Scum is assigned smithy, but can't claim Smithy from 'cuz that would be autolynch. Smithy is obviously one of the villains. But scum could claim Jinx or croco, because they're not quite a bad guys, may be in said hypothetical game, are not so obscure as to question "who is that", but are not so popular that they would have been given to actual town players. Scum couldn't claim Princess Toadstool because that role is obviously going to be assigned to a town player and will be counter-claimed in this hypothetical theme. Knowing the meta of super mario Rpg in this hypothetical theme game should be a benefit to town and scum alike.

I know I'm in the minority on this but since the topic came up I figured I'd share my thoughts on theme games and scum being handed safe fake claims.

[reinoe]

But scum, when cornered, should be forced to think about the game they're playing when they're caught. Fake claims should take effort.

Let's say someone is playing a fictional "super mario RPG mafia". Scum is pretty much caught and at L-1. Scum is assigned smithy, but can't claim Smithy from 'cuz that would be autolynch. Smithy is obviously one of the villains. But scum could claim Jinx or croco, because they're not quite a bad guys, may be in said hypothetical game, are not so obscure as to question "who is that", but are not so popular that they would have been given to actual town players. Scum couldn't claim Princess Toadstool because that role is obviously going to be assigned to a town player and will be counter-claimed in this hypothetical theme. Knowing the meta of super mario Rpg in this hypothetical theme game should be a benefit to town and scum alike.

I know I'm in the minority on this but since the topic came up I figured I'd share my thoughts on theme games and scum being handed safe fake claims.

a theme game without scum safe flavor claims would be easily broken by Day 1 flavor massclaim.

I disagree.

[reinoe]

But scum, when cornered, should be forced to think about the game they're playing when they're caught. Fake claims should take effort.

Let's say someone is playing a fictional "super mario RPG mafia". Scum is pretty much caught and at L-1. Scum is assigned smithy, but can't claim Smithy from 'cuz that would be autolynch. Smithy is obviously one of the villains. But scum could claim Jinx or croco, because they're not quite a bad guys, may be in said hypothetical game, are not so obscure as to question "who is that", but are not so popular that they would have been given to actual town players. Scum couldn't claim Princess Toadstool because that role is obviously going to be assigned to a town player and will be counter-claimed in this hypothetical theme. Knowing the meta of super mario Rpg in this hypothetical theme game should be a benefit to town and scum alike.

I know I'm in the minority on this but since the topic came up I figured I'd share my thoughts on theme games and scum being handed safe fake claims.

a theme game without scum safe flavor claims would be easily broken by Day 1 flavor massclaim.

I disagree.

You've just stated in your example theme Princess Toadstool would be obvious town.

Therefore by not having the possibility that scum getting that (and other roles that you also describe as obvtown alignment), it reduces the lynch pool to just the not quite bad guys.

Ok, I worded that a little poorly and I accept that. But there are also side characters who would nto be too obscure and are good characters: The Chancellor, One or both of mallows parents, Frogfucious, Frogfucious' apprentice, Link/Samus, Toadofsky, Fireworks Mole, or Culex. You can choose these and more and that's just off the top of my head. Knowing the rich tapestry of the theme game benefits town and scum alike.

[reinoe]

It does actually depend on how much flavor you put in the roles.

If it's just names, I'd expect scum to receive a list of names known to not actually be in the game.
If everything is flavored such as ability names, I'd expect the mod to offer scum extra fakeclaim service by fitting roles into the flavor.

If the mod wants a broken game possibility, they don't give any, although the game would also break slightly if scum are given complete fakeclaims and town attempts to massclaim day 1

The beet choice is to just have flavor names randomized separately to alignments/roles. (but then I haven't actually modded any theme games yet)

This has been brought up several times: has anyone ever seen a massclaim on day 1 in a theme game?

[reinoe]

This has been brought up several times: has anyone ever seen a massclaim on day 1 in a theme game?

as soon as people figure out you don't give scum fake flavor claims, they'll break your game

...and you'll also probably start having trouble filling theme games as a mod...

Challenge accepted.


Venture Bros Theme Game

Dean Venture
Hank Venture
Rusty Venture
Brock Samson
Dr. Orpheus
Jonas Venture Jr.
H.E.L.P.E.R.
Triana Orpheus
Master Billy Quizboy
Pete White
Sargent Hatred
Johnny Quest
Hadjji

Spot the villains. Any one of these people could be a hero or villain given any number of near random scenarios.

[reinoe]

Why would I want to randomise who's scum, when I can just say "X character isn't in the game", which does that in a better way. It's basically the same difference - if you make scum and town indistinguishable from flavour, you just do the same with real names and fake name claims. There's no inherent advantage for scum in either. So, like, what's your point?

I'm not taking the additional step of giving scum extra help. Means all the difference in the world. Veering off topic possibly so...


Open games avoid the issue entirely.

[reinoe]

Did you actually have scum in mind for that venture bros thing?

That's 13 players and I could forsee 3 scum in there.

For example. The Dean brothers. They're naive and one or both simply be getting misled by the big bad. Helper is a robot and what 7 of those people are smart enough to hack 'em? Rusty venture built a machine powered by the forsaken heart of an orphan and there was that episode where he almost did become a villain. Triana Orpheus is apprenticing under Dr. Orpheus' wife and could be getting trained in the dark arts. Brock samson kills hundreds of people in the line of duty, but let's not forget he takes joy in it. Johnny Quest is a recovering drug addict and could be in it for the money due to a relapse...


I could go on but any one of those characters could be a villain. That's why I specifically listed 13 characters. No fake claims necessary. Enough characters for a theme game.

[reinoe]

Slight hijacking: Just finished FakeGod's Touhou-themed game. Fakeclaims were not given to the scum. A subversion, as one of the (Town) characters in the game started the game knowing everyone's character name, so that wasn't an issue, but I knew nothing about Touhou and it was a role madness game -- if I had had to claim a Mafia role based on the character flavor I would've been sunk. Knowing that this is the case, I am very unlikely to sign up for another game by the same mod because I don't want my unfamiliarity with the theme/flavor to become a penalty.

I'm sorry to hear that you did not have access to The TouHou Character Wikipedia, despite your apparent internet connection. Did you make FakeGod aware of this tragedy after the game?

[reinoe]

I'm sorry to hear that you did not have access to The TouHou Character Wikipedia, despite your apparent internet connection. Did you make FakeGod aware of this tragedy after the game?

Ah, I see from your sarcasm that I was unclear. I will restate:

I play Mafia games here to play Mafia. I don't care about the Touhou flavor, and more importantly, I don't want to care about the Touhou flavor. It's not relevant to what I want to be doing, which is, I'll reiterate, playing Mafia. If the mod wants to bring other skillsets into their game and make them important, that's fine, their prerogative, but not what I'm going to enjoy or want to play in again.

Does that help? Kindly reply sarcastically if it doesn't, and I'll use smaller words.

If you're scum don't get "caught". If you are "caught" then you should be willing to put in the effort to save yourself. Now I understand that some people would rather be handed a get out of jail free card, I already acknowledged that my opinion is in the minority. I did not know that accessing a wiki is beyond the scope of so many players but I'm learning new things about mafia all the time.

[reinoe]

Let's say someone is playing a fictional "super mario RPG mafia". Scum is pretty much caught and at L-1. Scum is assigned smithy, but can't claim Smithy from 'cuz that would be autolynch. Smithy is obviously one of the villains. But scum could claim Jinx or croco, because they're not quite a bad guys, may be in said hypothetical game, are not so obscure as to question "who is that", but are not so popular that they would have been given to actual town players. Scum couldn't claim Princess Toadstool because that role is obviously going to be assigned to a town player and will be counter-claimed in this hypothetical theme. Knowing the meta of super mario Rpg in this hypothetical theme game should be a benefit to town and scum alike.

The funny part is this game actually happened.

Oh wow, I can't believe that game wasn't broken by massclaims. I thought people in theme games always mass claim day 1. That's the impression I was starting to get in this thread...

Thanks for the link, but holy cow that game was a mess.

[reinoe]

Is it alright to have a theme game with multi-ball and give both scum factions the same fake-claims?