NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[Untrod Tripod]

okay well I'll ignore you until 3p lylo then

[chamber]

Also also also, before I forget I want to mention that when I asked UT who he's vote for, he answered "either LML or VitR." UT is absolutely someone I could see naming two buddies in that answer.

I can see him doing that too, but I can also see him just busing 1, and it seems like you are getting a bit ahead of yourself before either VitR or UT flip?

[Untrod Tripod]

yeah well he's just scum, chamber

don't let the Mist get in your eyes

[chamber]

I'm also worried that confirmation bias is a large factor in my suspicion of bookitty, but it's hard to internally audit for that.

Glrok's handling of the 'slip' feels most natural of those that posted around that time and seemed to switch because of it, to me anyway.

How incomprehensible was this post for others?

[Glork]

Also also also, before I forget I want to mention that when I asked UT who he's vote for, he answered "either LML or VitR." UT is absolutely someone I could see naming two buddies in that answer.

I can see him doing that too, but I can also see him just busing 1, and it seems like you are getting a bit ahead of yourself before either VitR or UT flip?

To be fair, getting ahead of myself is pretty much what I do.


I mean, don't get me wrong. It's possible I'm wrong about VitR, or it's possible that UT is town and that much if a beast. I'm not exactly clamoring for heads on platters specifically because I was so impeccably wrong about LML.

[Bookitty]

I'm also worried that confirmation bias is a large factor in my suspicion of bookitty, but it's hard to internally audit for that.

Glrok's handling of the 'slip' feels most natural of those that posted around that time and seemed to switch because of it, to me anyway.

How incomprehensible was this post for others?

I understood it fine.

[chamber]

You aren't being very proactive.

[Yosarian2]

@Yos2, I mostly ignored LmL because he seemed mildly suspicious but not on the level of Seol/Bookitty. I didn't want to push the wagon but also not really dissuade it either, so I didn't have much reason to comment on the wagon.

So, why didn't you at least say that? Or at least say what you found mildly suspicious about him, or ask him a question, or mention that you found some post of his townie, or even say that you found him null?

Pretty sure my scum list was reasonable at the time too.

Eh. Everyone on your scum list but Seol was, at the time that post was made (post #230) on my pro-town list. That just seemed bizzare to me.

Now, maybe that wouldn't bother me so much, but I have to try to figure out where that came from because it's basically the only attempt you made on day 1 at scumhunting; everything else looks like either "attacking bookitty" or "trying to get other people to lynch bookitty".

Your whole debate with Glork was pretty dodgy as well, with posts to try and get people to lynch bookitty without actually saying anything useful like this one:

She's clearly not given up if she's scum. She's not going quietly into the noose; she's very clearly trying something.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@Yos

Are you on the fence with CES, or do you think he's scum?

[MrBuddyLee]

@Sotty

, what's your reasoning for voting DGB? A bunch of other people (Glork, CES, Shanba, chamber, Albert, etc) defended LML somewhat stridently or pushed opposing wagons.. how are you differentiating amongst all of them right now?

[Albert B. Rampage]

MBL no vote = bad

[Glork]

I'm not voting at the moment. Am I bad?

[MrBuddyLee]

MBL no vote = bad

X

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm not voting at the moment. Am I bad?

bad

[MrBuddyLee]

@STD

: Your case on DGB is not clear. There's a lot of pap in that post you just made about her. Can you please summarize your case?

[Porochaz]

I'm also worried that confirmation bias is a large factor in my suspicion of bookitty, but it's hard to internally audit for that.

Glrok's handling of the 'slip' feels most natural of those that posted around that time and seemed to switch because of it, to me anyway.

How incomprehensible was this post for others?

Out of the people to switch after the slip Glork's switch seemed the most okay.

[chamber]

I also think Glork needs a closer look. He's not impressed me so far and he stayed from LML almost all of the day, including with some really bad votes on CES and KK towards the end of the day.

Willing to look at glork too, the entire way the Freudian slip played out didn't ring true to me at all. Everyone's seen town make that (or very similar) mistakes.

Bookitty's looks the worst, and LML seemed hesitant to pursue that wagon all of day 1.

I meant this post *sweat*.

[Porochaz]

So lets take a look at the lead up to LML's lynch...

Page 30 is where DGB changed her vote to UT.

"ISO him and find your own reasons"

A few days from deadline this is not really a good line to take. Either make your case and vote or move onto one of the better wagons. I don't even know what this is... she doesn't stop there either. Like a little annoying bird tweeting "vote UT" repetitively but without going further. She is actively trying to be useless. Then she changes her vote to KK who isn't a good vote, but has just had a vote put on him by Glork, interestingly LML changes his vote straight after. All 3 within the hour. (1 hour and 2 minutes) It looks really very much like a last ditch attempt to change the tide. Especially considering there is no reason whatsoever to be voting KK at this stage.

Then there is Glork, someone I've been uncomfortable with for a long time now. Although admittedly not necessarily scummy, there has been very little I've agreed with in his posts. Especially around the LML VCA discussion. There is also what seems to me a lot of needless over-defending and again their is wagon avoidance here. He joins the 11th hour KK wagon. After catching the "slip" the vote is still put on at great reluctance.

And finally Sotty, who despite having suspected LML all day doesn't ever vote for him and when he scum slips, suddenly turns town.

DGB is a difficult one, because she does have a unique style of playing, but there is only so many times I can go "yeah but it's the way she plays". Glork, on the otherhand, Im going "this isn't the way he plays... ever" and there are aspects of his play I find disturbing. I genuinely see a link between Glork and DGB as well. In day 1 and 2. The problem I am having is that it seems to obvious. Sotty is scummy too. Undo and mathcam as well from the previous day... I still really want to make my case on undo and will do, he seems to have been really far under the radar for a while and his posts when he was active haven't exactly thrilled me.

Anyway thats where I am. Glorks post 927 amused me a bit since he was one of the people voting KK.

meh, it's obvious but let's go with it.

vote DGB

Interchangeable with Glork.

[Porochaz]

I also think Glork needs a closer look. He's not impressed me so far and he stayed from LML almost all of the day, including with some really bad votes on CES and KK towards the end of the day.

Willing to look at glork too, the entire way the Freudian slip played out didn't ring true to me at all. Everyone's seen town make that (or very similar) mistakes.

Bookitty's looks the worst, and LML seemed hesitant to pursue that wagon all of day 1.

I meant this post *sweat*.

Sorry, was posted as a flyby to my other post.

You think Glork is worth further investigation because of the way he handled the slip but Bookie was worse for reasons.

[chamber]

You have nothing to be sorry for, entirely my fault.

I'm no better at reading DGB than she is at reading me (which is to say not well at all). We just use completely opposite ways of interacting.

[Save The Dragons]

@MBL:

Cutting out all the rest:

Porochaz vote seemed strange. He didn't seem to be avoiding the game. DGB first got her scum read on him only based on this. Later she added that bit about his RL engagements. Trying to figure out where she got her first scum read and I'm not seeing it.

Adamant attack against UT, claims it's obvious. Not sure what's obvious about it, and like I said, I pretty much said the same thing and got a townie pass from her. Asking others to find the case for her makes her job easier if she's scum trying to frame UT. That doesn't sit well with me. That in itself is a bit weak, but the fact that she pretty much tried to drag the town into voting UT after it was clear it wasn't happening struck me as odd.

KK wagon was bullshit in my opinion. I'm suspicious of anyone on it. I'm beating a dead horse though. If you disagree, I don't think I'm going to be able to say anything else to convince you.

Overall her play seems to be more inline with trying to distract the town rather than catch scum.

Her position on LML doesn't preclude her from being scum unless you think LML was being bussed by all the scum when he said bus, which seems ridiculous.

And then after my vote of her, 919 is laughable, but I'm biased. I'm having a little trouble not taking it personally when people accuse me of being scum. I suppose it's just being rusty at this game, or maybe I never was good at that. I don't remember. It seems I went from town to suspect based on my case/vote of her.

@Glork:

If I come at you again, it'll be with a case, not these childish pot-shots I've been doing.

[undo]

Just came back from my vacation. I will definitely post something substantive tomorrow.

[Porochaz]

I'll be waiting...

[Yosarian2]

@Yos

Are you on the fence with CES, or do you think he's scum?

(shrug) I'm not as confident yet as I was about LML by the end of the day yesterday, if that's what you're asking. Let's say that I think CES's behavior makes him significantly more likely to be scum with LML then random, but I'd still like to hear more from him.

[Glork]

KK wagon was bullshit in my opinion. I'm suspicious of anyone on it. I'm beating a dead horse though. If you disagree, I don't think I'm going to be able to say anything else to convince you.

I'm pretty sure it never grew past four. If you think there was a legit attempt by scum to save LML at the probable risk of being exposed over the course of a large normal game made up entirely of veteran (and competent) players, you need to reconsider. Nobody here was going to go completely out of their way to save their scumbuddy LML on Day One at that point, because it makes zero sense as a long-term strategy.