Mini 1581--The Final Radiant Tales...(Fin)

[Lying Scum]

I don't know what I did but i fucked up the tags there. I dont care. the underlined is what cabd made big and the whole big part is supposed to be underlined.

ETL

[Lying Scum]

8.

morph the cat (Cabd+fferyllt)

:

My experience with Cabd is that he's very scary for scum. I replaced into a game as scum and he pegged me pretty much right away.

I think this slot is probably going to be my highest priority for sorting. I don't really know how to read either of them, but I'm hoping Beli can help me with that.

That being said.... I'm not happy with them so far Lots of empty questions, no follow up, excuses for not voting while chastising others for doing the same thing. Very strange. I'm also not really sure about their push on snscompt1. From the ISO, I don't get the reasoning. They say he's a "person of interest" because of post 41 but don't explain why even when questioned at least three times about it, and when they finally get around to going into more detail it's because "it looked like buddying" but they never give exact details. What about the post seemed buddying? What was the major difference that made it stand out? There's no transparent thought process. I don't like it.

Side note, after reading snscompt1 ISO - wtf.. 41 was his third post, and the previous 2 were 1 or 2 words. This is so fabricated. This whole thing. LYNCH WITH FIRE.

Scum

And if it wasn't fucking clear enough, the underlined came before I read the fucking ISo.

Go look at Varsoon's too. Like do you think you're fucking special or somethign that I didn't include my experience with yall just because you;'re you?

get out.

ETL

There. I fixed it. And I made it blue and bold so you can't miss it.

[Lying Scum]

Let me do that for all of them since you are having trouble differentiating.

[Lying Scum]

This is an ETL post that has not been approved by Belisarius. I am V/LA on the weekends, always and catching up today. From ISOs, here's what I've got (half done):

1.

Bert

: Ok so, ignoring the doublevoter claim, I really, really, really think this is town Bert. In Dark Age of the Law, he was kind of all over the place (I was one of his scum partners as part of the Drunken Lies hydra). I think the thing I like the most here is his attention on KA and the way he went about it. I got the impression that he was actually interested in figuring him out, and not just fucking with him.

Town

This doesn't have one because I didn't think to do that until after I did the first ISO.

2.

Bulbazak

:

I don't think I'll ever NOT be paranoid about you, Bulba <3 You got really mad at me for your lynch in Chain of Command, and that really stuck with me. I'm troubled by it because I find myself townreading you out of guilt. You fucked me up good as far as reading you goes.

That being said, I really looked hard for scumtells in your ISO. The biggest thing that stood out was that Bulbazak actually followed up on the answers to his inquiries of gameplay/Mirhawk and made conclusions from them. Honestly, he could totally do that as scum, but he seemed interested in the results and I dunno, I see that more for townBulb. He can be town for now, with a very healthy dose of paranoia that he may not be.

Maybe town

3.

gameplay506

Don’t know this person.

Given the join date, and general tone of the posts, I'm not sure I know what's up with this guy. Clearly new to the site/mafia. I can't tell if he's excited to be here or not, I can't tell if this is normal for him or not. Posts seem a bit awkward, but responses sound genuine. Oh, also seems like maybe English isn't his first language, so.. maybe a little trouble for me there as well. He hasn't really given much of his own opinions yet, at least not enough for me to make a determination. Definitely one we'll be focusing on for sorting.

Null

4.

KingdomAces

:

I saw KA explain his playstyle in Dark Age of the Law, but only when pressured based on it.

The fact that it was unprompted here is a little worrisome to me, though for now, I'm mostly inclined to believe it's not alignment-indicative. Actually, there's one thing that really bothered me. It was really small, but really stood out - in post 83, he states that he hasn't rolled scum in a year and a half, and then says

"But anyway..."

as if to dismiss the train of thought completely. But why? This is going to need a deeper look and a chat with Beli. All in all - not the same KA from Dark Age of the Law.

Maybe scum

5.

Lying Scum (Belisarius+EspeciallytheLies)

: such scum omg even their name says so lynch it with fire naow

6.

MafiaSSK

: Er... can you just like, release a handbook on how to read you because... 2 game posts... (plus confirmation post for 3) egh. It's almost like you couldn't give a flying fuck about your games or your team. I'm cutting this rant short, as it's (mostly) irrelevant to this game. But yeah. wtf...

Null

I didn't feel like this needed one, but I don't really know how to read this person at al. I've played a few games with him and never really payed much attention. The only one I remember was street racers which I read the slot based on mastin, but overall he put far more effort into it than he has done in other games since then.

7.

Mirhawk

:

Don't know this person.

His defense of Bert in post 100 is really weird and out of left field, and I don't get it. He throws in the "well he could also be scum" almost as an afterthought just to even out the post and make it look like he doesn't know what's up. It definitely doesn't come across as natural. He's also arguing semantics which is a nice scum tell And Bulbazak is voting for him, after much townier posts than this guy has, and if Bulb is town I kind of want to sheep him. Will need to chat with Beli, but I want to vote here.

Scum

ETL

p-edit: heeeey.... Let's chat before voting cuz I don't wanna vote ZZZX right now.

8.

morph the cat (Cabd+fferyllt)

:

My experience with Cabd is that he's very scary for scum. I replaced into a game as scum and he pegged me pretty much right away. I think this slot is probably going to be my highest priority for sorting. I don't really know how to read either of them, but I'm hoping Beli can help me with that.

That being said.... I'm not happy with them so far Lots of empty questions, no follow up, excuses for not voting while chastising others for doing the same thing. Very strange. I'm also not really sure about their push on snscompt1. From the ISO, I don't get the reasoning. They say he's a "person of interest" because of post 41 but don't explain why even when questioned at least three times about it, and when they finally get around to going into more detail it's because "it looked like buddying" but they never give exact details. What about the post seemed buddying? What was the major difference that made it stand out? There's no transparent thought process. I don't like it.

Side note, after reading snscompt1 ISO - wtf.. 41 was his third post, and the previous 2 were 1 or 2 words. This is so fabricated. This whole thing. LYNCH WITH FIRE.

Scum

9.

Oversoul

:

Don't know this person.

I actually rather like his questioning of our first post. I was looking for someone to say something and he's really the only one who asked, and it seemed like he was actually thinking about what it meant rather than just looking for something to push. I also like how open he is with his thoughts.

Town

10.

Rubicon

:

Lynch-bait.

Buuut... I don't see any inclination to get involved or solve the game. Also, the Jester comment was weird.

Maybe scum

11.

snscompt1

:

Don't know this person

. I don't like the posting style in the least. I don't know what to make of this slot. Yet. Needs a closer look.

Null

12.

Varsoon

:

I know you hate me. Don't hate me. I was scum there. I did what I had to do.

His posts this game are a little weird. My perspective is totally skewed though; I've only ever seen him that once where he was town and I was scum. I'm tempted to push his buttons just to see if I get the same reaction but I'm hesitant cuz I'd rather not make him replace out again. I wouldn't mind some interaction now that I'm getting involved in this game though. The read as it stands though is he might be scum. I really only saw excuses for not engaging.

Maybe scum

13.

ZZZX

Lynch-bait

. Looks town to me. Nothing pinged so far and he seems really into the game and all about doing things. Not sure how else to describe but I think most people should get what I mean. Anyway I like him for town.

Town

p-edit: seriously Bert? I saw you melt down from the scum QT. Give me a break, okay.. this is not the same Bert, and I gave very clear reasons for my read on you. Just because you think I shouldn't have an idea about you doesn't mean I don't, and scumreading me for thinking you are town is insulting, to say the least.

All the blue is pre-iso commentary.

ETL

[Oversoul]

Yeah stuff to read.
I was worried this game would just sink into apathy and never return.

[Oversoul]

Will read later tonight

[fferyllt]

This is a cabdpost. Hi. ETL why are you trying the "omg cabd so scary scum" angle? It...

A: never works
B: Hasn't been true for the past few months
and
C: DId I mention it never works?

I don't understand what you are saying Cabd. I gave my experience on most of the playerlist where I had it to give. What do you think I'm supposedly doing with this statement?

Also... I thought yall were scumreading ZZZX???

ETL

p-edit: K. Posting in the wrong thread about the same thread. Ok.

Are you clear on this now?

[morph the cat]

This is a cabdpost. Hi. ETL why are you trying the "omg cabd so scary scum" angle? It...

A: never works
B: Hasn't been true for the past few months
and
C: DId I mention it never works?

I don't understand what you are saying Cabd. I gave my experience on most of the playerlist where I had it to give. What do you think I'm supposedly doing with this statement?

Also... I thought yall were scumreading ZZZX???

ETL

p-edit: K. Posting in the wrong thread about the same thread. Ok.

Are you clear on this now?

mine

[Mirhawk]

Mirhawk, thoughts on ETL's reads?

Do you mean in general or specifically?

In general I don't like the way he gathers his reads, too many of them are based subjective assessments. Things such as meta or transparent posting are things that can be viewed in different ways by different players. Their lack of solidity also means they can be easily ditched when no longer convenient, by simply stating the player is no longer acting in that manner.

In specific, I agree with his assessments of KingdomAces and Bulbazak, but don't particularly like his assessments of bert, Varsoon, Oversoul, and Zed.

That being said, In berts most recent post as he basically implies that he cant be scum because his scum game isn't this good. Which would be fine, except I think he was actually being serious.

Vote: Bert

[Bert]

That being said, In berts most recent post as he basically implies that he cant be scum because his scum game isn't this good. Which would be fine, except I think he was actually being serious.

I questioned the quick townreads on myself:

I do admit that having ETL locked in on a townread on me already definitely makes me suspicious as these townreads on me lack some kind of clarity about my play which I think is 'unknown' so far.

your mercurial opinion that I can perfect my "competent" scumgame to where tone is irrelevant seems peculiar

This is the quote you are referring to. ^ Your posts seem to be for the purpose of "appearing town" with your questions, but without enforcing why you asked your questions in the first place. That doesn't stand you in good stead with the rest of town. Your posts have been reactions or unloaded questions, which so far doesn't seem useful in the long run.

What makes me nervous is why you think I'm worthy of a vote for discussing my meta. I did not bring it up.

[Bert]

If you look again, I did not say I "can't be scum since my scumgame isn't this good." I said expecting me to be flawless as scum is unreasonable.

[Bert]

I cleaaaaarly see that as a scum slip. Everyone should get back on that wagon.

VOTE: sns

[Natirasha]

Vote Count 1.6

I call upon thee in the land of the dead, to unleash thy fury of thunder. Indignation!

morph the cat(1):

gameplay506

Bert(1):

Mirhawk

KingdomAces(2)

: Oversoul, ZZZX

MafiaSSK(0):

Bulbazak(0):

Varsoon(0):

Mirhawk(3):

Rubicon, Mirhawk, snscompt1

Lying Scum(0):

snscompt1(2):

morph the cat, Bert

Oversoul(0):

Rubicon(0):

ZZZX(2):

MafiaSSK, Lying Scum

gameplay506(1):

Bert

No Lynch(0):

Not Voting(2):

Varsoon, KingdomAces

With thirteen alive, it takes seven to lynch.

(expired on 2014-06-27 12:00:00)

Prodded MafiaSSK & Varsoon.

[KingdomAces]

Prod-dodge. I haven't read anything between my last post and now, but this is my top priority for when I next have free time.

[snscompt1]

@Nati: Apologies, but Im requesting to be replaced. I can tell that this is one game I wont be of much help and would like to give the spot to someone who will take the time to do well. Very sorry.

[Lying Scum]

Are you clear on this now?

Clear on what, why Cabd's pissy about a perceived BoP read, or why you're willing to vote anyone

voting one of your scumreads

due to an egregious scumslip?

Because I sure as hell don't grok the latter. #167 was clearly "wrong thread, but right game." Jesters are a bastard element, and how many bastard games are going on right now? Oh that's right, one. The "we" and "stay safe" sentiments are clearly something one would write in a scum QT, and scum have daytalk.

Voting ZZZX after the slip is

not

alignment indicative. That lynch is

going

to happen. Scum will be on the wagon to avoid being PoE'd so readily, and town will be on the wagon because when the scum give you a free lynch, you take the fucking free lynch.

-Beli

[morph the cat]

Are you clear on this now?

Clear on what, why Cabd's pissy about a perceived BoP read, or why you're willing to vote anyone

voting one of your scumreads

due to an egregious scumslip?

Because I sure as hell don't grok the latter. #167 was clearly "wrong thread, but right game." Jesters are a bastard element, and how many bastard games are going on right now? Oh that's right, one. The "we" and "stay safe" sentiments are clearly something one would write in a scum QT, and scum have daytalk.

Voting ZZZX after the slip is

not

alignment indicative. That lynch is

going

to happen. Scum will be on the wagon to avoid being PoE'd so readily, and town will be on the wagon because when the scum give you a free lynch, you take the fucking free lynch.

-Beli

Clear that we are scumreading ZZZX. I feel like ETL keeps pointing up supposed (but actually nonexistant) contradictions in our posts. Mostly my posts. I don't ordinarily push back on every little thing, but I don't like how this last day or so went at all.

[Lying Scum]

Funny, that's pretty well what she's saying about Cabd, both in thread and in the hydra QT.

I don't mind the argument, I think it's actually been pretty useful. I just realised something I need to bring up with ETL.

[Lying Scum]

Morph - I think you're scum for in-thread reasons, as I posted in post 175: empty questions with no follow up, making excuses for not placing a vote, saying snscompt1 is a "person of interest" and not explaining why after being asked several times, and the post that was used as a reason (post 41) doesn't fit with the explanation given.

Additionally, both of you are claiming that I am scumreading you based on BoP and meta. Please read the above paragraph again. None of that has anything to do with BoP

or

meta. This is a false statement. You have spent many posts saying how this is a contradiction when the argument actually does not exist.

Furthermore, the statement I made about cabd was that he was

good at catching scum

. The exact words I used were "scary for scum". See here:

My experience with Cabd is that

he's very scary for scum.

He then turns around and accuses me of trying to use the argument "Cabd is scary as scum" as a reason to scumread you, which is also false. See here:

This is a cabdpost. Hi. ETL why are you trying the "omg

cabd so scary scum

" angle? It...

A: never works
B: Hasn't been true for the past few months
and
C: DId I mention it never works?

It is truly beyond my understanding that either of you would twist a statement in such a way and attempt to apply it as a scum tell, AND have this "misunderstanding" for so long.

ETL

[morph the cat]

I don't ask empty questions. Whether I follow up immediately or at all depends on the answers I get.

Your explanation about historical comments to start your paragraphs satisfies me. I haven't talked to Cabd about it. But, some of the other problems I had - for instance your characterization of my question to gameplay being hypocritical or contradictory with my own play, was quite simply incorrect, and I don't see how you can read my posts that way unless you are actually trying to put the worst possible interpretation on each individual post rather than looking at the conversation as a whole.

Players doing stuff that prolongs RVS or that looks like they are ignoring or refusing to engage actual content that drives the game beyond RVS always gets my attention.

I think Beli is aware of this about my early game.

Anyway, you're utterly wrong about us. Cabd has reminded me that you rage about as either alignment, but there are alignment differences in how you go about it, which will come to light. Waiting is.

[Lying Scum]

your characterization of my question to gameplay being hypocritical or contradictory with my own play, was quite simply incorrect,

From your ISO, it looked to me like you gave someone a snarky response about why you did not place a vote, and then later poked at gameplay for doing the same thing. It looks hypocritical to me in the ISO, perhaps not in context, but the point of doing ISOs is to find the contradictions that may not be apparent in context.

Players doing stuff that prolongs RVS or that looks like they are ignoring or refusing to engage actual content that drives the game beyond RVS always gets my attention.

Is this your explanation of the context? You were poking at gameplay because he was RVSing at a point that you felt it was no longer appropriate?

Also, forgive me if I do not trust either of you to be able to read my alignment correctly from "rage", considering how 1) I haven't played regularly as ETL in the last 2 months and I'm positive Cabd isn't aware of all my alts currently in circulation, and 2) I've been working pretty diligently on adjusting my playstyle, focusing mostly on channeling my emotions and not insulting people. Me telling you what I'm working on regarding that isn't going to help you, but neither is guessing about it.

Lastly, if you're not going to follow up on your questions, how do you expect me to think that is anything BUT scummy? It doesn't look to me like you are actually interested in the results of your inquiry. You can't simply scumread us for pointing out something valid about your play here that doesn't look remotely town motivated. If you actually plan on doing something constructive with those questions, then do it, but don't complain that I'm scumreading you when you haven't yet. I've been strung along far too many times by scum who were "too busy" or "not done yet", and I've done it myself more than once. Actually, until recently, that was probably my biggest scum tell and I don't know why no one ever fucking caught it.

Anyway, I'm done arguing with you. I have other people to sort, and you've become a distraction. I'll come back to you later.

ETL

[morph the cat]

your characterization of my question to gameplay being hypocritical or contradictory with my own play, was quite simply incorrect,

From your ISO, it looked to me like you gave someone a snarky response about why you did not place a vote, and then later poked at gameplay for doing the same thing. It looks hypocritical to me in the ISO, perhaps not in context, but the point of doing ISOs is to find the contradictions that may not be apparent in context.

Players doing stuff that prolongs RVS or that looks like they are ignoring or refusing to engage actual content that drives the game beyond RVS always gets my attention.

Is this your explanation of the context? You were poking at gameplay because he was RVSing at a point that you felt it was no longer appropriate?

I have no idea how you could possibly have missed that this was the problem I had with gameplay. That was why your nitpicking this against my own tendency not to vote at all until I see something I think is lynchworthy as somehow cotradictory looked like a non sequitor

In case the conclusion I reached somehow got lost in all the dust you've raised, I think gameplay's reaction to my pressure didn't look scummy.

Also, forgive me if I do not trust either of you to be able to read my alignment correctly from "rage", considering how 1) I haven't played regularly as ETL in the last 2 months and I'm positive Cabd isn't aware of all my alts currently in circulation, and 2) I've been working pretty diligently on adjusting my playstyle, focusing mostly on channeling my emotions and not insulting people. Me telling you what I'm working on regarding that isn't going to help you, but neither is guessing about it.

We'll read you as best we can as the data comes in. The lack of trust in read ability obviously goes both ways. We at least aren't WRONG yet, because we haven't reached a conclusion. The same can't be said for you.

Lastly, if you're not going to follow up on your questions, how do you expect me to think that is anything BUT scummy? It doesn't look to me like you are actually interested in the results of your inquiry. You can't simply scumread us for pointing out something valid about your play here that doesn't look remotely town motivated. If you actually plan on doing something constructive with those questions, then do it, but don't complain that I'm scumreading you when you haven't yet. I've been strung along far too many times by scum who were "too busy" or "not done yet", and I've done it myself more than once. Actually, until recently, that was probably my biggest scum tell and I don't know why no one ever fucking caught it.

I don't ask questions or do anything else in mafia in order for you personally to think anything about me. I ask questions to inform my own reads. I know based on lots of past experience that my body of work always accurately reflects my alignment, and most players will figure that out.

Anyway, I'm done arguing with you. I have other people to sort, and you've become a distraction. I'll come back to you later.

ETL

Good enough for now.

[Lying Scum]

@Nati: Apologies, but Im requesting to be replaced. I can tell that this is one game I wont be of much help and would like to give the spot to someone who will take the time to do well. Very sorry.

Does this mean Guyett is coming?

ETL

[Natirasha]

@Nati: Apologies, but Im requesting to be replaced. I can tell that this is one game I wont be of much help and would like to give the spot to someone who will take the time to do well. Very sorry.

Guyett replaces snscompt effective immediately.

[morph the cat]

UNVOTE:

for now. Cabd and I need to talk about sns replacing out that way. In the meantime Guyett can have some catch-up space.

VOTE: ZZZX