NY175: Sycamore Scuffle

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

@skot, why are you voting aegor?

because He pissed me off and I wanted to slap him in the face.

[Aegor]

which means you are playing against win condition. You call for policy lynch because I disagree with you is flat out stupid.

I am not calling for a PL on you because you disagree with me. I calling for a PL on you because you have a demonstrable pattern of objectively terrible policies that you have consistently refused to abandon that can screw the town over.

Rather then asking me nicely to reconsider my personal policy, you decide the best way is to puff yourself up and take out a bully stick. You signed into a game I signed into before you. You already know how I play.

Not when I signed up for this game weeks ago.

Here, you are deciding that a certain element of play is more to your liking and want to simply eliminate a player who disagrees with the strategy and gives fair warning about the difference.

The "fair warning" is irrelevant. Your approach is not merely a "certain element of play." It is a strategy that will fuck over town right in the ass. You are more than welcome to abandon your idiotic approach to L-1 wagons, and I will not push for your lynch on that basis.

A normal adult way to go about a disagreement like this is something like, hey, I know you see things differently, can you please not do that and try playing our way. No, rather you take a hyper-aggressive approach that is simply down right rude and aggressive. You would rather bully then to ask nicely. Persuasion to a different point of few and style does not come from taking bully stick. So knock the crap off.

If I asked you nicely, would you play differently?

[Alina]

I'm a bit paranoid when people follow me.
Can you explain what you don't like about that post?

*puts SNOT on ignore*

Sigh that's better maybe a stuff drink too.

It's actually kind of hard for me to put my suspicion into words, I sat here for like 5 minutes trying to figure out how to phrase it. It just feels kind of off in general. It might be the wording. It feels like he's setting up so that he can say "oops," if wake flips town.

Not really what I was thinking but interesting POV.

I was more looking at his post of suspicion on sal for asking people to vote for wake, but his next line he has wake as a scum read. This is something of a newb scum tell (well maybe to me) you set up someone suspicious for pushing a lynch that you can point to later. The fact that clusk finds wake the scummiest added to my suspicion of his comment.
Short response: pushing a wagon on a player you find scummy shouldn't bother you when you were following that players logic in the first place.

OH. I thought you just meant his 128. No, I thought that as well with his post directed at Salamence. "hey salamence was being scummy guys see i called him out darn i wish i had gone with what I was thinking there!!" That's why I asked him that question, I was like uh, what?

[Aegor]

As much as I feel about snot as you do let's not start policy lynching people.

It is a large, so I am fine with a PL or two.

[Not_Mafia]

How about we just ignore any intent to hammer that SKOT declares instead.

[Alina]

As much as I agree the sharp intent-to-hammer-no-matter-what thing is kind of silly, I don't think policy lynches should be done, ever. Unless they're just absolutely completely horrible beyond repair. Sure, it's a large and there's lots of town, but there's also more scum as well, and if we PL someone who's town...yeah, it still sucks. Even with more people.

And Not_Mafia, we can't really do that, since...well...he still has the power to hammer, lol.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Scum or not, Sharp, your actions and posts are anti-town. You have to see that.

yes, I understand that per "mafiascum" culture I get labelled as anti-town and village idiot because I do not conform to the "borg mindset" and group think elements of the culture here. I cannot be any different then I am and attempts to do things the "mafiascum" way for me end up mucky, so I have to do what I know to do. Now that does not mean I do not learn, but I have to do what I have to do. The whole "antitown" and "village idiot" labels are simply means of pushing a certain "style of play" and push toward a certain "group think." FYI, if you look at my history (as my alt, peacebringer), you will see I engaged in persuading against "no lynch" day ones a decade ago. I left here for varied other reasons and elements of the culture are different. So, I am trying to grow and blend in but I can only start at my baseline and core. I am not beyond being persuaded but I never take well to bullying or group pressure.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

How about we just ignore any intent to hammer that SKOT declares instead.

and then I will actually hammer...
I am willing to compromise and give some time, say at least a day before engaging intent to hammer or do you all need 2 days? But I detest the sitting back to play patty-cake.

[TheAdrienC]

Dude, what you are doing is NOT helping the town no matter how much you think it is. Let me repeat that...NOT...HELPING...THE TOWN!! Now both of you need to get the votes off each other and start lynching scum and not people you hate for other reasons. Because we are NOT going to win if you two keep this up. Understood?

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

which means you are playing against win condition. You call for policy lynch because I disagree with you is flat out stupid.

I am not calling for a PL on you because you disagree with me. I calling for a PL on you because you have a demonstrable pattern of objectively terrible policies that you have consistently refused to abandon that can screw the town over.

Rather then asking me nicely to reconsider my personal policy, you decide the best way is to puff yourself up and take out a bully stick. You signed into a game I signed into before you. You already know how I play.

Not when I signed up for this game weeks ago.

Here, you are deciding that a certain element of play is more to your liking and want to simply eliminate a player who disagrees with the strategy and gives fair warning about the difference.

The "fair warning" is irrelevant. Your approach is not merely a "certain element of play." It is a strategy that will fuck over town right in the ass. You are more than welcome to abandon your idiotic approach to L-1 wagons, and I will not push for your lynch on that basis.

A normal adult way to go about a disagreement like this is something like, hey, I know you see things differently, can you please not do that and try playing our way. No, rather you take a hyper-aggressive approach that is simply down right rude and aggressive. You would rather bully then to ask nicely. Persuasion to a different point of few and style does not come from taking bully stick. So knock the crap off.

If I asked you nicely, would you play differently?

Nothing I have done has screwed town over in my play and it does not fuck over town as the way I play is generally played that way everywhere else. It is a different theory of play, different mindset. Yes, I was the 1st person to sign up for this large. Maybe you did not have the full experience of my play though at that time. Yes, if you give me persuasive argumentation and ask nicely, then I would consider doing things differently or at least negotiate a compromise.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Dude, what you are doing is NOT helping the town no matter how much you think it is. Let me repeat that...NOT...HELPING...THE TOWN!! Now both of you need to get the votes off each other and start lynching scum and not people you hate for other reasons. Because we are NOT going to win if you two keep this up. Understood?

I will disengage the argument. Folks just let me know how much time you prefer I wait before I intent to hammer. In my mind a day is reasonable. Let me know what is. I will not sit back indefinitely.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

unvote

[TheAdrienC]

Thank you. Fuck!

[Not_Mafia]

And Not_Mafia, we can't really do that, since...well...he still has the power to hammer, lol.

He does but he's told us that they're going to be completely meaningless most of the time, all it does is draw out claims for no reason, so we just shouldn't honour them. Out side of extreme circumstances if he hammers anyway it will just be a scum claim.

PEDIT: Okay I'll try and work with you here. To me, you've completely devalued any intent you can declare in this thread, because it's not intent to hammer, it's intent to draw out a claim. I don't find having everyone run up to L-1 at any point claim helpful, so I see no reason for anyone to honour your intent . If you make some sort of distinction between you wanting a claim and an actual 'traditional' intent to hammer then I'll honour the latter, but I don't see any benefit in honouring the former.

[Not_Mafia]

And Not_Mafia, we can't really do that, since...well...he still has the power to hammer, lol.

He does but he's told us that they're going to be completely meaningless most of the time, all it does is draw out claims for no reason, so we just shouldn't honour them. Out side of extreme circumstances if he hammers anyway it will just be a scum claim.

PEDIT: Okay I'll try and work with you here. To me, you've completely devalued any intent you can declare in this thread, because it's not intent to hammer, it's intent to draw out a claim. I don't find having everyone run up to L-1 at any point claim helpful, so I see no reason for anyone to honour your intent . If you make some sort of distinction between you wanting a claim and an actual 'traditional' intent to hammer then I'll honour the latter, but I don't see any benefit in honouring the former.

[Mirhawk]

/confirm

Wake's intro is kinda out there. But it seems in character for me.

I'm more interested in the people on his wagon, BP's vote was purely oppertunistic, also Scarab slipped on there in the butter zone as soon as it looked like other people were interested.

Vote: Scarab

@SKOT
If you declare the intent to always hammer we'll just end up with everyone hovering around L-2 all the time, which is even worse then hovering at L-1.

[Aegor]

I cannot be any different then I am and attempts to do things the "mafiascum" way for me end up mucky, so I have to do what I know to do.

All you have to do is vote legitimately, and not hammer for the sake of hammering. Is that difficult?

Now that does not mean I do not learn, but I have to do what I have to do. The whole "antitown" and "village idiot" labels are simply means of pushing a certain "style of play" and push toward a certain "group think."

So? Certainly "styles of play" are better than others. If I posted nothing but curse words and random unexplained votes, other players would rightly state that my "style of play" is not good.

and then I will actually hammer...
I am willing to compromise and give some time, say at least a day before engaging intent to hammer or do you all need 2 days?

No. I never want you of a L-1 wagon. So the only compromise I am willing to entertain is that you join a L-2 wagon automatically and see if anyone else is willing to place an

actual

vote.

But I detest the sitting back to play patty-cake.

What would "patty-cake" be?

[farside22]

Dude, what you are doing is NOT helping the town no matter how much you think it is. Let me repeat that...NOT...HELPING...THE TOWN!! Now both of you need to get the votes off each other and start lynching scum and not people you hate for other reasons. Because we are NOT going to win if you two keep this up. Understood?

I will disengage the argument. Folks just let me know how much time you prefer I wait before I intent to hammer. In my mind a day is reasonable. Let me know what is. I will not sit back indefinitely.

I would like if you currently had a scum read to vote for that person

[Aegor]

PEDIT: Okay I'll try and work with you here. To me, you've completely devalued any intent you can declare in this thread, because it's not intent to hammer, it's intent to draw out a claim. I don't find having everyone run up to L-1 at any point claim helpful, so I see no reason for anyone to honour your intent . If you make some sort of distinction between you wanting a claim and an actual 'traditional' intent to hammer then I'll honour the latter, but I don't see any benefit in honouring the former.

...which is exactly what I told him in a different game.

[Salamence20]

Wtf?

Who the fuck cares about this hammer/claim bullshit?

Fuck lets get some reads before we decide on if hammering is town/scum.

Skot is VI

[TheAdrienC]

I've listed a few of my top scumreads. You want to share your reads aside from Wake and SKOT, Sal

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

And Not_Mafia, we can't really do that, since...well...he still has the power to hammer, lol.

He does but he's told us that they're going to be completely meaningless most of the time, all it does is draw out claims for no reason, so we just shouldn't honour them. Out side of extreme circumstances if he hammers anyway it will just be a scum claim.

PEDIT: Okay I'll try and work with you here. To me, you've completely devalued any intent you can declare in this thread, because it's not intent to hammer, it's intent to draw out a claim. I don't find having everyone run up to L-1 at any point claim helpful, so I see no reason for anyone to honour your intent . If you make some sort of distinction between you wanting a claim and an actual 'traditional' intent to hammer then I'll honour the latter, but I don't see any benefit in honouring the former.

From my perspective and the way the game is played pretty much everywhere else. You run someone up to get a claim, that is the whole intent of the run up. This is what I know. It short circuits my brain to get a run up without a claim. It just does. See, I get to L-1 I claim. Normally where I come from L-2 is the claim point because people do hammer and such as they come from a completely different theory of play. People not claiming when reach the "claim point" is considered scummy and any delay is thought to be evasive. So my expression and play is trying to grasp some element that I can wrap my head around. I am generally an active player and the passive engagement such as this my brain does not grasp, so for me it is silly. Now, for those of you with this is all you know, I can understand my prospective is horrid and unlike No lynch nonsense the only real argument I have is different theory of play.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Dude, what you are doing is NOT helping the town no matter how much you think it is. Let me repeat that...NOT...HELPING...THE TOWN!! Now both of you need to get the votes off each other and start lynching scum and not people you hate for other reasons. Because we are NOT going to win if you two keep this up. Understood?

I will disengage the argument. Folks just let me know how much time you prefer I wait before I intent to hammer. In my mind a day is reasonable. Let me know what is. I will not sit back indefinitely.

I would like if you currently had a scum read to vote for that person

if I had a current scum read I would vote that. Right now I have null and probable town. I need to come back from being pissed off over Aegor pulling out a bully stick before I can get a gauge on game. Right now I doubt wake is scum. I do want to take a closer look at Sala...

[BP]

About my vote. The minute I read Wake's post with all the FoS's it immediately rang as scummy. There's nothing more scummy than spreading doubt around. What he did was draw out some people out of RVS and use them for reactions, but when you put so many people on the black list it basically says that all those people are supposed to be possible scumread, but in opens fair game for him to lynch any one of those without raising much suspicion.

It's scum play 101.

What I meant with the spreading the votes around town was that by putting so many people on the spotlight he could generate some divisions among the town as to who they should persecute as scum. Creating different bandwagons, if you get my drift.

[BP]

Sorry if my vote looked opportunistic but I do not control the frequency at which people participate in the discussion while I'm gone... But that looked way too scummy to me to pass.

Now I am actually sorry for posting without quoting and all but my computer broke so I'm doing this off my phone and it's a lot harder than it looks x)