NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[DrippingGoofball]

LoudmouthLee

(5) -- Green Crayons, Yosarian2,

VitaminR

,

petroleumjelly

, Save the Dragons
Seol/Bookitty (7) -- Sotty7,

Shanba

, Cogito Ergo Sum, chamber,

Untrod Tripod

, MafiaSSK/mathcam,

undo

petroleumjelly

(2) --

LoudmouthLee

, Seol/Bookitty

LoudmouthLee

(6) -- Green Crayons, Yosarian2,

petroleumjelly

, Save the Dragons, Porochaz, Tigris/Kublai Khan
Tigris/Kublai Khan (3) -- MrBuddyLee,

Glork, DrippingGoofball

Seol/Bookitty (8) -- Sotty7, Shanba, Cogito Ergo Sum, chamber,

Untrod Tripod

, MafiaSSK/mathcam, undo, CrashTextDummie

petroleumjelly

(3) --

LoudmouthLee

, Seol/Bookitty,

VitaminR

========
That's a pretty bold moment for VitaminRscum to abandon a bus... personally I had been scum in his position I would have been married to the LML wagon until

townies

started to come off it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

VitR. Though I think it's more likely that I get lynched in that case.

Why VitaminR?

[chamber]

VitR. Though I think it's more likely that I get lynched in that case.

Why VitaminR?

Mostly constraints of your scenario. Though again, if I make it to lylo with those 2 I suspect its because they are both scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

LoudmouthLee

(5) -- Green Crayons, Yosarian2,

VitaminR

,

petroleumjelly

, Save the Dragons
Seol/Bookitty (7) -- Sotty7,

Shanba

, Cogito Ergo Sum, chamber,

Untrod Tripod

, MafiaSSK/mathcam,

undo

petroleumjelly

(2) --

LoudmouthLee

, Seol/Bookitty

LoudmouthLee

(6) -- Green Crayons, Yosarian2,

petroleumjelly

, Save the Dragons, Porochaz, Tigris/Kublai Khan
Tigris/Kublai Khan (3) -- MrBuddyLee,

Glork, DrippingGoofball

Seol/Bookitty (8) -- Sotty7, Shanba, Cogito Ergo Sum, chamber,

Untrod Tripod

, MafiaSSK/mathcam, undo, CrashTextDummie

petroleumjelly

(3) --

LoudmouthLee

, Seol/Bookitty,

VitaminR

========
That's a pretty bold moment for VitaminRscum to abandon a bus... personally I had been scum in his position I would have been married to the LML wagon until

townies

started to come off it.

I disagree. It's 12 votes to lynch. Bringing LML from 6 to 5 is nothing. Plus you always think that scum bus. Scum don't always bus.

[Green Crayons]

@Vitamin:

In Post 771, you switched from voting LML to PJ. In your very next post, Post 826, you switched back to voting LML.

Why?

[Yosarian2]

These chamber votes are awful. pj is just being petty and undo lazy.

2.)

While I am not enthused with Albert B. Rampage, I think he could easily be right on the money on VitaminR. VitaminR has looked scummier every Day of the game. His Sotty7 vote in particular made me curl my lip. VitaminR's play, as I said earlier, looks like he is trying to set himself for play later in the game; he inoffensively is trying to join wagons. I would be willing to lynch him.

I'm not particularly surprised about this, you've never been able to read me. But your idea that I'm setting up play for later is ridiculous (and based on

exactly one vote

). I've said repeatedly that I don't get why people think mathcam is scum. What do you expect me to do? Not vote anyone?

This is very badposting. Bitching about the play of the masons so as to look like you're doing something without actually doing anything useful yourself?

unvote

vote: VitaminR

[chamber]

The play of the masons there is just objectively bad though?

[mathcam]

Two small notes:

1) Rereading through VitR and CES talking about each other, VitR seems much more comfortable vouching for CES as town than the other way around. This makes me think that of the two options, it's more likely that VitR is town and CES is scum. I know this is a bit of a stretch, but I feel like I can almost feel CES' awkwardness at having VitR be so wrong about him. This also meshes better with my reasonably pro-town feelings toward VitR on day 1.

2) This might be almost as bad as mandating that every sufficiently large wagon has scum on it, but I came across LML's suspicion list

Here's who I am leaning scum on: UT, Mathcam, STD, Sotty
Here's who I have strong scum feelings for: PJ

and have a hard time believing that he didn't put even one of his scum buddies on there. Given that I think STD is town, and we already know UT and (almost certainly) PJ, this is a strike against Sotty in my book.

[Yosarian2]

Happy to lynch either CES or VitaminR at this point. Mathcam also looks suspicious, for a number of reasons, but I have more mixed feelings about him.

Honestly CES just looks to be playing like caught scum at this point; he's carefully avoiding commenting on anyone other then Mathcam, perhaps to avoid giving us anything to go on when he does get lynched, and when I attacked him earlier today his response just sounded like he was complaining that I caught him for the wrong reasons.

There's got to be at least 1 scum on the Bookitty wagon here, probably 2. I'm becoming increasingly confident that CES has to be scum here. Mathcam is also on the suspect list.

Yeah, that's just lazy bullshit. You're really not looking at your own arguments skeptically if you think this is a thing that matters.

It doesn't feel like he's angry I think he's scum, or that he's surprised he's under suspicion, just that he thinks he's being caught for the wrong reason.

Meanwhile, VitimanR juts feels wrong. His votes are wrong, his reactions are wrong, his moves are wrong. Pretty consistently. His suspicions never really feel right, they never happen at the right time. He's buddying chamber really hardcore, and has been since yesterday, often in ways that are totally BS. Chamber questioned me a little, and VitimanR followed. The masons pressure chamber to stop acting in what they precieve to be in an anti-town way, and VitR jumps to criticize the masons for it. That's just not town play.

We really should lynch one of the two of them today, I think. They're probably both scum. I'd compromise on a mathcam lynch if necessary, but I'm less confident about him.

[DrippingGoofball]

2) This might be almost as bad as mandating that every sufficiently large wagon has scum on it, but I came across LML's suspicion list

Here's who I am leaning scum on: UT, Mathcam, STD, Sotty
Here's who I have strong scum feelings for: PJ

and have a hard time believing that he didn't put even one of his scum buddies on there. Given that I think STD is town, and we already know UT and (almost certainly) PJ, this is a strike against Sotty in my book.

It

IS

as bad as mandating that every sufficiently large wagon has scum on it and

I LOVE IT

You can vote Sotty, I'll vote STD and let's see where this leads.

VOTE: STD

[Yosarian2]

The play of the masons there is just objectively bad though?

(shrug) They're trying to pressure you to act in a more pro-town way, as PJ defines the term; agree or disagree with the details, that's generally a reasonable thing to do, and it's pretty much exactally what I would expect from a coldly logical player like PJ who's used to demanding answers and getting them when someone just flatly refuses to answer questions for no good reason.

Now, seeing that, the town reaction one would expect from some uninvolved third party would be to either support them, or to use the situation to try to get a read on you, or to get out of their way and do something else. Getting in the way of the masons while they're trying to do something they think is useful is just totally counterproductive at best.

The only logical reason for VitR to try to criticize the masons at this point is if he's trying to buddy you and get you "on his side". My best bet right now is that you're probably town, and he's scum trying to use you.

[chamber]

What did you think of his comment about me?

I remember I never replied to this. What were you referring to?

I wish I had followed up on this :/

[DrippingGoofball]

Also mathcam committed a pretty big town tell in his last post. Almost enough to counteract ABR's guilty on him.

[Sotty7]

I mostly voted you without accompanying text to see how you would respond and this is a very convenient reaction to those votes, given that I'm the one of the three under the most suspicion. You realize that I had the same reaction as chamber to your SpyreX vote, right? I just voted you later, because I wanted to hear you explain it first. Why does that give chamber a pass, but not me?

I'm not really sure how many times I can tell you that I think you are town before you listen to me. Your vote was still pretty bad despite that, at least I get some reasoning now.

1) You've been under the radar all game, hardly making any real waves.

Yeah, it's pretty much how I play large games in particular. What of it?

2) You said you were suspicious of LML almost all day Day 1 and called LML 'probably scum' quite early on, but kept your vote parked on BooKitty all day.

Yup. I decided that my reasons for suspecting LML were play style based and picked a side. Pretty sure it was the wrong side as I think Boo is town now, but there you go.

3) Your posts are mostly reasonable and careful, but they hide the fact that a lot of your votes have been on really easy targets, including that BooKitty/Seol vote on Day 1. Since then, you've voted SpyreX/inHim/etc., and DGB and mathcam when those wagons had plenty of support. Your only really original vote was on MBL Day 2 and you've quickly let that go.

This is pretty weak as well. We can't all have ground breaking votes pushing original wagons if you have a problem with my reasoning that's one thing, otherwise this is a reach. Also Spyrex is anything but easy as shown by the lack of votes he has gotten and the flack I have received from my vote that I haven't backed away from. How about my CTD push, that was pretty original if totally off base.

4) Your response to ABR's push on me feels opportunistic to me. Your first post in response says you have a solid town read on me, but are 'willing to reevaluate'. That just reads like something scum says so you can later justify an apparent change of mind (and your reaction here seems designed to push that same narrative).

I can somewhat understand your paranoia, but I have followed that up (twice now) by calling you town. ABR's case on you was more reflective on him than you at the time, I just worded that a little too poorly.

I'm frustrated by the slow pace of the game so I'm bandwagonning.

Called it. How about CES? I would be down for a wagon there.

Unvote, Vote: CES

He isn't even scumhunting. The sotty case is trash. He's so extremely passive and antitown it's incredible. We have to lynch him.

His paranoia with my inevitable double cross on him feels town though.

this is a strike against Sotty in my book.

Same logic applies to you here.

[DrippingGoofball]

Same logic applies to you here.

If you're town, and mathcam is town, STD is 100% scum!

[Sotty7]

With the condition that LML put a buddy in there, sure.

[DrippingGoofball]

With the condition that LML put a buddy in there, sure.

You bet he would.

The thing is, I doubt that mathcamscum would point this out given that his name is in the list... and he actually used the list to narrow down suspects between STD & yourself. That's why I say, given mathcamtown, if you're town... STD is scum in the bag. Or you're scum.

[Sotty7]

I'm town.

But see, I think mathcam and STD are also town. So, yeah.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm town.

But see, I think mathcam and STD are also town. So, yeah.

One thing in this post is wrong, which is it?

[Sotty7]

The belief we can all be town?

[SpyreX]

Yeah I still think mathcam is town. Bookitty's pressure looks OK on the surface and her activity compared to yesterday is greatly improved, so I am back to feeling comfortable about her.

Spyrex is still awful. The vote was bad simply because he had one throw away sentence about STD then voted that slot right after DGB asked the town if he could be scum. It just felt like he was placating to DGB while qualifying that he still isn't caught up yet.

DGB feels a lot more town today with the scumputer and her directional pushes. It has really made me less willing to vote her, but I could be over compensating her new found investment in the game, but I'm totally fine with that right now.

I have also changed my opinion on MBL, feeling he is likely town. Not willing to vote there anymore.

I still like CES for scum, I think mathcam's and Poro's point of him feeling pretty un-invested rings true. I'm not really interested in VitR's reasoning for deflecting for him. I just need to see more.

Zzzzz

Except for the fact he was doing exactly what I said he did before AGAIN that's almost not an entirely bad post.

Except for most of the other words in it.

-----

I've thought VitR was town from the very beginning and he's a pretty natural read. This one:

Unvote, Vote: LoudmouthLee

I'm not a fan of any of the MafiaSSK votes on this page. Feels like a bunch of strong players going for an easy target. I especially don't like LML's #62, which nicely sets up a potential switch to the MafiaSSK wagon while maintaining a push on Tigris. Seems like something scum might do to make sure that two wagons keep momentum.

Her words weren't actually meaningfully responding to the context of the question.

As in: the response was in the abstract rather than talking about what the vote was concretely supposed to do in this game? Meh.

In context and time with LML being scum is the towniest town. I'd rather murder way down the bad brigade.

[Bookitty]

I'm not on board with lynching chamber. I have a moderate town-read on him, primarily based on his I-don't-give-a-fuckitude and what looks to me like pretty honest admitting of confusion. There was something else, too, that I thought cleared him but I can't look it up just now.

I think that mathcam might be town. I still haven't gotten confirmation on this being his town meta, and I haven't had time to meta him for myself. I get the impression that mathcam thinks I'm asking him to meta himself; I'm not. I'm asking OTHERS for confirmation or rebuttal that this is his playstyle. While some of his actions fit the scum-scenario I lined out earlier, I'm not so sure about others. I still want those reads. I'm willling to wait for them.

I'm pretty sure ABR is town, sure that Yos is. I won't have time to reread the game today or tomorrow, and I have outlined my issues with VitaminR earlier. So I'm going to do this:

UNVOTE: mathcam
VOTE: VitaminR

I'll be checking the thread today, but I'm on a deadline so I may not be too active today or tomorrow. If you have questions directed at me, please bold them so I don't miss them.

[DrippingGoofball]

The belief we can all be town?

Yep. So who is the scum? STD or you?

[VitaminR]

@Vitamin:

In Post 771, you switched from voting LML to PJ. In your very next post, Post 826, you switched back to voting LML.

Why?

Glork asked me basically the same question Day 2 and I answered it in Post 1117.

[VitaminR]

BooKitty, it's true that you did outline your suspicions of me earlier, but I also gave you a detailed response, which you didn't fully respond to. Why are you voting me now without acknowledging my response?

This is very badposting. Bitching about the play of the masons so as to look like you're doing something without actually doing anything useful yourself?

unvote

vote: VitaminR

I think you're being a bit unfair here. This is kind of a fabricated point. I posted one line about how I didn't like the chamber votes and the rest was just a response to pj's suspicions of me. Am I not allowed to defend myself now? I posted a bunch of other stuff in the last few days. You can always pick out one post that doesn't contain any active scumhunting and say "look, you're posting to make yourself seem like you're doing something".

Meanwhile, VitimanR juts feels wrong. His votes are wrong, his reactions are wrong, his moves are wrong. Pretty consistently. His suspicions never really feel right, they never happen at the right time. He's buddying chamber really hardcore, and has been since yesterday, often in ways that are totally BS. Chamber questioned me a little, and VitimanR followed. The masons pressure chamber to stop acting in what they precieve to be in an anti-town way, and VitR jumps to criticize the masons for it. That's just not town play.

What you have done that is so great? Most of what you say here is meaningless and I could just as easily say about it you, because it's totally subjective.

And you're exaggerating the chamber stuff. You think it's strange that I took chamber's side against pj? Pj pulled the same 'answer this question, now answer this question'-move on me Day 1 and I refused to play along, because it's just time-wasting. In addition, I'm like almost 100% sure that chamber is town, it's my strongest read in the game. That's basically been true since page 2. So yes, I was also defending him a little bit.

And show me all the ways in which I've buddied chamber that are 'total BS' to you.