In post 2118, MrBuddyLee wrote:
Yos, how do you find that set of circumstances obvtownish?
Hmm. Yeah, looking back, i suppose that's a fair summation.
I guess a lot of my STD read is really gut, based on the style of his posts and what I remembered of how scum-STD played.
I also tend to think that if scum-STD was going to bus LML, he's probably try to do so in a way designed to get more town cred; his behavior looks more like a townie who suspected both Boo and LML. But that's a bit WIFOM, I suppose.
I guess you're looking at this in a more unbaised way then I was, and I don't disagree with any of your points. Except...I still don't think STD is scum.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
Might vote
2) Porochaz
3) CrashtextDummie
5) MrBuddyLee
12) Cogito Ergo Sum
13) MafiaSSK
16) Green Crayons
15) Albert B. Rampage
17) Zorblag (replacing Natirasha, who replaced farside22)
22) Tigris
MBL's case on STD is logical, given that he also pointed out that it wasn't logical for me to simultaneously suspect mathcam, and have a theory that VitaminR jumped the gun on calling mathcam town because he knows mathcam is town. Similarly, he points out some minor contradiction in STD's play about his suspcion of LML, and a period of time where he had unvoted LML but kept stating suspicion of him; my rebuttal for that is the previous post.
So MBL stays at the same level of suspicion.
DGB, on the other hand, has abandoned her scumhunting efforts and is looking to buddy and wagon anything that moves. She was trying to get MBL lynched, and MBL posted a generally cohesive and detailed case, so DGB flipped around and votes STD.
She did the exact same thing with Untrod Tripod. Correct me if I'm wrong, but she picks out players who haven't been suspected much, but who are not under the radar either, like Untrod Tripod, STD, MBL, and Yosarian, and throws out accusatory comments about them without a vote, then waits for someone to make a case against them, then she puts down her vote. I'm not buying what she's selling and it's very likely her intentions are more insidious that they appear on the surface level veil of sarcasm and irreverence, peppered with mediocrely acted out moments of vulnerability.
I maintain a strong suspicion of DGB, but that nowhere reaches my committment to get VitaminR lynched. He's irredeemably scummy.
He's been defending himself a lot for buddying chamber and CES, but let's not forget, he pulled the exact same stunt with mathcam.
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.
undo, your reading of my play is pretty selective. Yes, LML flipping scum gave me a boost. You'll see that I went after pj with much the same enthusiasm. But then both pj and Glork turned out to be town and that sapped my confidence. You can always come up with a scummy narrative if you're willing to cherry-pick.
I basically agree with Yos on StD. I think MBL's case is kinda convincing, but I just have a hard time moving past the strong town feeling I get from his posts.
I'm not acting out in self-interest. VitaminR also defended me by agreeing with KK when KK pointed out that me mixing up player names and suspicions didn't make me scum. VitaminR goes to great lengths to defend everyone in this game, but is unable to formulate cohesive suspicions, like MBL's case on STD, which comes accross very logical and well reasoned. His Sotty case wasn't very good.
We're giving a lot of credit to VitaminR Day 1, but he still appeared undecided between PJ and LML.
To go from that wishy washy behavior to then say that he was so confident that PJ was scum, that it shattered his confidence when he claimed mason, is unbelievable.
In post 432, VitaminR wrote:That last post of pj really sets alarm bells ringing for me, particularly the opportunistic jump on LML and the wilful misunderstanding of everything I've said in response to him.
In post 659, VitaminR wrote:I'm no longer feeling so enthusiastic about a pj lynch. I sort of buy the Socratic dialogue story and he comes off reasonably town in how he's reacted to his bandwagon.
Unvote: pj
.
In post 700, VitaminR wrote:Wrong. And you're also completely wrong about CES.
In post 1117, VitaminR wrote:My switches from LML to pj and back were motivated mostly by indecisiveness and self-doubt, triggered by gut feelings that LML's frustration, and later pj's, were sincere.
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.
In post 2114, mathcam wrote:I disagree (and as the person who made this point, and to whom you subsequently assigned pro-town points for that argument, I hope this carries at least a little weight). As likely as it may be, it's silly to mandate that this is 100% true, to the point of taking it more seriously than, or excluding, other theories and reads.
You sound like Einstein trying to convince himself that relativity is wrong. Stahp it.
Okay, I lolled. Lemme put it this way -- consider the worst-case scenario. Suppose we lynch one of the three today and they came up town. One nightkill. Lynch the second, town. One night kill. Lynch the third, town. One night kill. (Variants with vig acting exist, too.) We wake up on Day 6 with 11 people alive, possibly 5 of which are scum. I think it's safe to call this an almost guaranteed loss. This puts the argument in a pretty precarious perspective -- would you, right now, be willing to wager the outcome of the game on this theory?
DGB wrote:
In post 2114, mathcam wrote:I think it's pretty to hide behind "One of X, Y, Z is scum" and "One of A, B, C, is scum", etc., so could you summarize your current stance?
You brought it up. I agreed with you. Now I have to summarize your own stance?
No no, I was asking for a composite summary of your stances, from the various
different
"One of X, Y, Z is scum" opinions you hold, possibly in conjunction with scumputer results. For example, if I'm reading it right, you had both Sotty and STD at the top of your townie points list (maybe?), whereas you now seem to be agressively pushing for one of those two to be lynched.
@ABR: Why VitR and not CES? Of the two, I think VitR definitely gets
some
pro-town cred for attacking LML on Day 1, undo's points notwithstanding. Also, what did you think of this point? I think there's a lot of potential to analyze players who share a real-life connection.
mathcam wrote:Rereading through VitR and CES talking about each other, VitR seems much more comfortable vouching for CES as town than the other way around. This makes me think that of the two options, it's more likely that VitR is town and CES is scum.
As a meta-point, if you're really interested in getting a reasonably expedient lynch, the people on the VitR wagon have mostly expressed a willingness to lynch CES (I'm not sure about BooKitty -- seems to have been pretty silent on CES), whereas the reverse is not true.
If later in the day we all decide to lynch LML, please, please, please don't be surprised if I jump on that wagon hardcore.
OH yeah ABR, that's soooooo town LOL
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
In post 2130, Albert B. Rampage wrote:She was trying to get MBL lynched, and MBL posted a generally cohesive and detailed case, so DGB flipped around and votes STD.
What game is this???
In
this
game I've had nothing but a rock-solid town read on MBL (I don't know how you came up that I wanted to get MBL lynched????) and I was voting STD waaaaay before MBL said anything about it (I don't know where you get the "flipped around" part????).
ABR, you on crack?
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
In post 2130, Albert B. Rampage wrote:then waits for someone to make a case against them, then she puts down her vote.
I've been voting for STD for three days, what the F are you talking about??? Are you reading this game or are you just blowing smoke?
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
Okay. I just finished 25,000 words of OMGIWISHIWASDEAD.
So I'm going to read the game and catch up.
Sorry for my absence.
I am willing to lynch CES as lurkerscum. I think chamber is town. I asked chamber if he thought CES was acting odd earlier and he said that he's maybe a little more sheepy and followy. I can find that interaction if you want, but the upshot is, I would be fine with a CES lynch today.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
In post 2132, VitaminR wrote:I basically agree with Yos on StD. I think MBL's case is kinda convincing, but I just have a hard time moving past the strong town feeling I get from his posts.
What kind of failscum tries to derail a competing wagon with a credible case?
VitaminR is town.
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
Gotta say I've been getting a really strong pro-town vibe from DGB recently. Somebody point me to this post next time I get in a fight with her so I remember to keep cool.
In post 2130, Albert B. Rampage wrote:She was trying to get MBL lynched, and MBL posted a generally cohesive and detailed case, so DGB flipped around and votes STD.
What game is this???
In
this
game I've had nothing but a rock-solid town read on MBL (I don't know how you came up that I wanted to get MBL lynched????) and I was voting STD waaaaay before MBL said anything about it (I don't know where you get the "flipped around" part????).
ABR, you on crack?
Spyrex, not MBL. What an overreaction on your part though.
FOS: DGB
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.
The scumputer brings up some points but MBL is still town and I never said anything else.
As for SpyreX, he's buddying up to me now, and I'm a sucker for that. Even knowing I'm a sucker of it, I can't help it.
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
STD was pressured by ABR and UT to jump from Seol to LML in the first place.
The post you cite above was pressured by other players, including one townie.
I thought Seol was more likely to be scum at the time, but I didn't see a reason not to put pressure on LML. It was pretty early in the day.
I'd disagree that I was pressured, but that line of thought dissolves into "I think you're scum!" vs. "but I know I'm town..."
Spoiler: b)
In post 2118, MrBuddyLee wrote:b) Server crashed two days later, and as soon as it came back up seven days later, STD unvoted LML to vote PJ and LML unvoted STD to vote UT. Note that LML's reason for voting UT was something LML's analysis shows STD was also doing, yet LML chose to switch from STD to UT right after a seven day server outage. STD gives absolutely no reason for unvoting LML or for voting PJ. Frankly, reeks of daytalk over the outage or at least reeks of opportunism to get off each others' wagons.
I can't really argue over the speculative part since my argument again is "no you're wrong about that because that's not what happened."
I can't really argue over what the hell LML was doing; I can only guess, so I'm not going to bother.
Someone (DGB it turns out) has actually already accused me of giving no reason for switching to PJ, and I responded showing my reason for switching to PJ.
I won't quote it, but 1496 contains me quoting myself explaining why I thought PJ was suspicious.
Also here's my response to you from a similar point you tried to make yesterday that you have ignored.
If later in the day we all decide to lynch LML, please, please, please don't be surprised if I jump on that wagon hardcore.
Part of that <snip> includes my suspicions of PJ. Voting for Zorblag was a joke. I suppose that you're more concerned with the unvote, but honestly I wasn't sure that LML was going to get lynched at that time, so I moved on to another target, with that stipulation at the end (that I realize may look even more like distancing, but once again I had one vote).
Spoiler: c)
In post 2118, MrBuddyLee wrote:c) Despite voting PJ, STD wants us all to know he really really still wants to lynch LML. LML also IGMEOYs STD as he unvotes him. Such hyper-awareness of the perception/risk of unvoting each other.
I regret I have but one vote to give for my town.
Spoiler: d)
In post 2118, MrBuddyLee wrote:d) STD jumps to Bookitty basically saying "she's scum because
'Seol'
aaaaaaand for
defending LML
." So LML's almost certainly scum but Bookitty needs to hang because she's defending LML? Ass-backwards.
A) Seol was suspicious.
Seol jumped on an easy wagon hiding behind a rhetoric reason that seemed like low-hanging fruit. I've beaten this point to death, and I still feel like some of those people are scum.
Seol then posts next to nothing. It's early enough in the day. He evades detection. The wagon fizzles. whether he just completely crapped out or whether he wanted to lie low, I can't really say.
In post 67, MafiaSSK wrote:So I'll ask a seemingly useless question right back at you as you did to Tigris: Why is my (mostly theory based) opinion on bandwagons scummy enough to warrant a vote?
Because it favours scum. Either you're wrong or you're scum (with an inclusive or), and in a game full of experienced players, I give less credence to being wrong.
is simply justification to grab that low hanging fruit: "the theory he's spewing is bad, but since he's supposed to be smart, his bad theory is likely due to him being scum."
But to be honest, in the same post he points out the following about MafiaSSK
In post 162, Seol wrote:
The arguments against CES are super,
super
stretching: he hasn't said nearly enough to read in that level of intent, and taking what he has said at face value is just disingenuous.
That's bad, but particularly so in that the theme of 156 is "this is why pushing RVS wagons is good: look at all the info we can get from it" - but that info is nonsense. It feels like artificial suspicion, like he's decided he needs to attack the people who were late on the wagon and then, given that, constructed reasons to suspect them.
Which is accurate. At this point I don't agree that MafiaSSK's behavior is scummy, but it is a bit out there and I can see both scum hungry for the easy lynch and townies falling into that trap.
Overall I don't think it's damning but I am leaning towards Seol being scum.
In 466 Bookitty basically defends LML. (This is bad because LML is scum too but I know not everyone agrees with me yet so I won't dwell on that).
In post 507, Sotty7 wrote:Is LML a town read for you at this point? I'm getting the real feel of having your cake and eating it too so I would like you to clarify your opinion on him.
LML is a null-leaning-scum read for me. The scum part is:
He pulls his vote off STD and then votes UT for the EXACT SAME thing. His VCA actually shows that. I realize he's only got one vote, but why switch it at the point he does and then blame it on his VCA? That's not reading honest to me. STD ducked my question on that, but I would be interested to know how STD sees that move. To me, it was the scummiest thing LML did all game and it made me look hard at STD as a result.
The town part is:
I've read the game several times over the last few days. I still don't have it down, but I guess that's normal for a large game. But I notice that LML is the target of choice for a lot of people with not a lot of reasoning. I hadn't thought about it the way Glork did, but the truth is that Glork is a better scumhunter than I am. (I'm sure those who have played with me before will back me up on this.) I just gave my reason for thinking he might be scum; so far as I recall, I'm the only one who noted that exact thing. (I could be wrong on that, but I don't remember reading anyone on LML's wagon and saying, AHA, you think what *I* think.) The reasons given aren't as good as that one in my eyes, which makes me think that some of the people on LML's wagon are scum without real motivation except finding a convenient wagon. Which, in turn, makes me think that LML might be town after all.
For me the disconcerning part is that she seems to think I'm suspicious because:
Why, if LoudmouthLee's switch to Untrod Tripid was scummy, did LoudmouthLee's Vote Count Analysis "make you look hard" at Save the Dragons as a result? Were you looking for potential LoudmouthLee and Save the Dragons connections?
(at this point I don't think she's going to answer so I'm going to stop biting my tongue).
She seems to imply guilt by association, then removes the scumminess off of LML. She then spends some time in her PBPA to build a case against me, even though she no longer thinks LML is scum, so I'm not sure why she thinks I'm scum. The case she builds on me is highly inaccurate to fact.
From my point of view, she seemed to want to decide I was scum and attack me before constructing evidence for it, which makes me quite curious.
Another reason she seems to think that LML and I are scum together is because of the way LML stopped voting for me (which again is weird if she thinks LML is town). The thing about that is it selectively ignores LML's argument about UT jumping on the Nat wagon. Had she outright dismissed it, then maybe I would be less irked, but she mentioned that the reasoning LML voted for me and for UT was exactly the same, when in his post, it's clear that it isn't.
I don't know. To me it seems like she picked a target and then tried to justify it, which I think is pretty much the same reason PJ is voting for her (except for how she did it to PJ).
Honestly, take your pick of reasons to vote for Bookitty.
Oh wait, there's a whole 'nother reason that I chose to vote for Bookitty that you selectively ignore, in favor to point out that the LML tie in is bad (which I said in context was bad.)
Spoiler: e)
In post 2118, MrBuddyLee wrote:e) STD repeatedly draws attention to how he's not voting LML because no one else finds LML scummy yet.
In my mind, LML clearly tried to smear me with shit reasoning. He accused me of strangeness when I voted undo, and when I explained myself, he ignored it. He targeted specifically bandwagony players. All the MafiaSSK hate made me uncomfortable. I don't know, he seemed pretty likely to be scum to me.
Am I supposed to be happy about the fact that I'm watching people leave the LML wagon? Should I have just vote parked and walked away? If you like, I'll vote for DGB right now and won't say a word for the rest of the game, but I don't think that's the most useful use of my time, it's not going to confirm or deny whether I'm right about her, and I don't think that's going to be fun for me.
Spoiler: f)
In post 2118, MrBuddyLee wrote:f) (Slight/possible pro-town point for STD) When STD gets off Boo and back on LML June 9th, the count is Boo 8, PJ 2, LML 4. STD cannot vote PJ because both of his top suspects, Boo and LML, are on PJ. So STD has to choose between staying on Boo or switching back to LML who he's been calling out all day. This is townish if Boo is town, except that... UT asks STD why not stay on Boo, STD says "because the Boo wagon aint happening". STD's move from Boo to LML is less townish because Glork, ABR, Yos, DGB just hard defended Bookitty and PJ just switched off Bookitty to LML. Wind was a-blowin, and STD, if scum, must realize how shitty he'll look tomorrow if Boo flips town and he let LML slide after calling him obvscum much of D1.
It seems to me that some of your more speculative points on me could be answered with "STD just thought more than one person was suspicious."
I'm trying to recall a moment in this game where you had more than one suspicion and I cannot think of any. Please alert me if I am wrong, but to me this just kind of boils down to different playstyles.
Spoiler: g)
In post 2118, MrBuddyLee wrote:g) Admits he'll move his vote if either the PJ wagon or the Boo wagon picks up steam, possibly fishing for a chance to leave the LML-wagon, possibly calling for help from scumpartners:
Possibly indeed. It couldn't possibly have something to do with a deadline approaching the next day, could it?
Forgive my naivete but I was unsure that anyone was going to get lynched, I thought too many people were saying "nah, XXXX is town" on all 3. Just because 10 votes rallied right before the deadline in one game didn't exactly give me faith that it would happen in this one.
I was of the opinion all 3 could potentially be scum, so I was honestly content with any of them.
Spoiler: h)
In post 2118, MrBuddyLee wrote:h) votes PJ out of the block D2. Does that really make a ton of sense given that PJ switched from Boo to LML before STD did and attacked LML much of D1 like STD did?
Why wouldn't it? I'm not alone in being suspicious of PJ. Even my archnemesis DGB thought PJ was scum. Just because we happened to share one opinion doesn't prove that he's the same alignment as me.
A lot of your case is quite speculative that I'm doing these things because I'm scum. I did a lot of these things because:
a) lynching people gives us valuable information
b) I can only vote for one person.
If you look at it from that mindset, do my actions make sense?
To an extent, that mitigates some of the points, yes. I think it still looks overall like you found ways to avoid voting for LML, and you definitely never made a compelling case on him that matched your rhetoric about how obvScum he was. You spent way more time talking about how obvScum he was and/or why you weren't voting him at the time than about WHY he was obvScum.
Your minimalist case on him was weird too, based entirely on this wagon:
MafiaSSK (6) -- Tigris, Save the Dragons, petroleumjelly, Seol, Porochaz, Green Crayons
STD wrote:I started that list at petroleumjelly because it was his reasoning that seemed to get people on board, less so Tigris's. Thus that leaves Seol, Porochaz, Green Crayons, and LoudMouthLee. I believe one of them is likely to be mafia.
I get the sensation that none of those wagoners (PJ, Seol, Porochaz, Green Crayons) were scum and therefore you included LML's "FOS" to make your argument fit. It's so weird to me to include an FOS when doing a wagon analysis.
And you voted Seol/Boo much of the day on a "low-hanging fruit" wagon with reasoning "Seol was on a low-hanging fruit wagon of SSK". Instead of sticking firm on LML who you found obvScum for, apparently, his FoS of Seol.
Also, you seemed to be implying that you left the LML wagon because it "wasn't happening", but you didn't really give it much of a chance or even make a significant case before bailing for PJ after the server restart. The PJ wagon was even less happening than LML..
Another thing that bothered me about you, which Bookitty touched on before, was this:
Boo wrote:@SaveTheDragons What did you think of LML's justification for taking his vote off you and putting it on UntrodTripod? Do you think that jumping from wagon to wagon is more scummy or not scummy?
STD wrote:As for his justification I strong suspect LML is scum but there's a wave of pro-town mania seeming to surround him.
So weird that you were immediately defensive and instead of answering Boo's "justification" question you reiterated how strongly you suspect LML and reiterated your excuse for why you weren't voting for him.
In post 2148, MrBuddyLee wrote:
I get the sensation that none of those wagoners (PJ, Seol, Porochaz, Green Crayons) were scum and therefore you included LML's "FOS" to make your argument fit. It's so weird to me to include an FOS when doing a wagon analysis.
Again, I feel like I'm looking at this from the point of view that people have multiple targets and you are looking at the point of view that people have one target. Yeah, the FOS is kind of flimsy when compared to a vote, but honestly if you saw a bunch of your scumpartners jumped on a wagon, would you rather jump on yourself or say "hey, I'm planting my flag here and maybe I'll get back to it later." That may or may not have been the case but by post 113 that was fine for me.
Did you, by post 113, assume that none of those wagoners were scum? Now I think all those people are likely town and I was likely mistaken, but then I really didn't have a way of knowing...
In post 2148, MrBuddyLee wrote:
Your minimalist case on him was weird too, based entirely on this wagon:
I agree, that compelled a lot of my reason for suspecting him. I looked back and didn't find much that I posted regarding my suspicioun of him other than that FOS. There is this:
In post 325, Save The Dragons wrote:
I don't particularly like the fact that what LML has accused me of I have rebutted and I get no kind of response other than "I still think he's scum." Tbh i'm having trouble separating the emotional "What? I'm not scum! How dare yee!" part of things.
I don't know. It's possible that I overplayed my read on him then because his response left a bad taste in my mouth, and I'm overplaying my read on him now because he turned out to be scum.
In post 2148, MrBuddyLee wrote:
Also, you seemed to be implying that you left the LML wagon because it "wasn't happening", but you didn't really give it much of a chance or even make a significant case before bailing for PJ after the server restart. The PJ wagon was even less happening than LML..
It appears I was mistaken about that being the reason I left the LML wagon; I left a few wagons for those reasons, but actually looking back I don't think that was it for that one. I don't really remember why I specifically left LML after the server crash. It's possible I looked at PJ and thought him more suspicious at the time, or that I wanted to try something else after the crash, but I can't give you a concrete answer to that.
In post 2148, MrBuddyLee wrote:
Another thing that bothered me about you, which Bookitty touched on before, was this:
Boo wrote:@SaveTheDragons What did you think of LML's justification for taking his vote off you and putting it on UntrodTripod? Do you think that jumping from wagon to wagon is more scummy or not scummy?
STD wrote:As for his justification I strong suspect LML is scum but there's a wave of pro-town mania seeming to surround him.
So weird that you were immediately defensive and instead of answering Boo's "justification" question you reiterated how strongly you suspect LML and reiterated your excuse for why you weren't voting for him.
Ok, this is really starting to annoy me.
Please put post numbers or quote the entire thing, this is not the first time you've taken ONE LINE of a post of mine and implied that it was the only thing I had to say in that regard.
Spoiler: context is tech
In post 498, Save The Dragons wrote:In post 479, Bookitty wrote:@SaveTheDragons What did you think of LML's justification for taking his vote off you and putting it on UntrodTripod? Do you think that jumping from wagon to wagon is more scummy or not scummy?
I think jumping from wagon to wagon is jumping from wagon to wagon. I don't particularly think it's scummy when I do it because I'm town (please don't misread that, I'm making a point that the question appears obviously loaded, not that I think it's scummy otherwise).
As for his justification I strong suspect LML is scum but there's a wave of pro-town mania seeming to surround him. It's hard for me to be unbiased when I saw him attack me with shoddy logic, didn't rebut the holes I made in his arguments, and watched him claim his almighty VCA was the key to finding teh scums. The truth is I can see either PJ or UT as scum (UT for reasons entirely different than LML's magic crusade on wagoning, mind you).
I suppose you could look at it this way. If I'm town, and I think, ScummyMcScummerFace is scum, if I'm afraid I'm going to get targeted because ScummyMcScummerFace already has 6 votes, then ScummyMcScummerFace will never get lynched.
The reasoning is more important than the actual votes itself. I think LML has been kind of phoning it in, so to ultimately answer your question, well...he kind of just stated a fact (the sky is blue, the cake is a lie, UT was on X amount of wagons) and added a bit about voting for Nat. I don't really know how I feel about the Nat wagon, for me the towniness and scumminess kind of cancel and its a null tell.
I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that while Seol didn't really have much to say D1, your content thus far doesn't exactly instill me with confidence that you are innocent.
So I did answer her question, added my comment about LML being scum, and found another reason I found LML suspicious (obviously not a reason I voted for him in the first place, but something on the back of my mind).
If you want to have a logical discussion I will continue to debate with you but if you just want to make broad speculations and slander me for a reaction or you're scum, then I don't want any part of it.
