NY175: Sycamore Scuffle

[Juls]

Are you joking wake? I absolutely gave my reasons sbout Adrien but I am not going to link all the posts again when you can just look at my ISO. In case you aren't aware, doing links on an ipad is a pain in the ass.

[Wake1]

So he did say there were 5 mafia...

However, how new is he? He could be Newbscum... or not.

Instead of being directed so easily, let's discuss how Damon_Gant only has 5 posts.

[Wake1]

Using your brain and your fingers isn't, Juls.

Look at his posts, and post in 4 sentences exactly why you find Adrien Scummy.

Is that too difficult?

[Aeronaut]

Anyone else want to chime in on the Adrein/Commuter claim?

Many PR's are hard to verify. Neither outed PR got killed. I think there's nothing that can be done about it for the time being.

But onto more important matters...

Why do you think about HunterSeeker explicitly stating that he knows there's 5 mafia? People are saying that he's just trolling but taking yesterday and today into account I think his behavior is scummy.

HELP! MAFIA is voting me

And this town is doomed. we are 14 blues against 5 mafs.

He doesn't say 5 scum. He says 5 mafs.

/confirm for 1st game outside newbie town. Is there a setup/role list and/or do we know the town/scum ratio?

This is HunterSeeker's very first post in the game. It includes setup speculation.

I know I'm not the only person who realized his play this game is different from his play in his first newbie game.

Can we get lynch HunterSeeker now please?

That is pretty sketchy. I guess he's a good option I think, but I don't know.. It just seems too obvious. I didn't like being wrong about Clusk, and if we have too many more mislynches we're going to be in some serious shit.

[Not_Mafia]

Using your brain and your fingers isn't, Juls.

Look at his posts, and post in 4 sentences exactly why you find Adrien Scummy.

Is that too difficult?

I don't have the patience to respond to everything else right now but you're just going to drive people to replace out with haughty posts like these. It is not the onus of everyone else to regurgitate things and do your work for you if you're not going to read the game.

[Juls]

Using your brain and your fingers isn't, Juls.

Look at his posts, and post in 4 sentences exactly why you find Adrien Scummy.

Is that too difficult?

I'm done with you. I did what you asked. You can fucking do what I said or not. I truly don't give a shit. If you want to vote me for doing exactly what you asked then good luck with getting me lynched.

[Juls]

Thank you not_mafia. Maybe you can do a better job of getting through to him on how he is acting.

[Wake1]

Using your brain and your fingers isn't, Juls.

Look at his posts, and post in 4 sentences exactly why you find Adrien Scummy.

Is that too difficult?

I don't have the patience to respond to everything else right now but you're just going to drive people to replace out with haughty posts like these. It is not the onus of everyone else to regurgitate things and do your work for you if you're not going to read the game.

That's not hardy. Stop feigning outrage.

I think you're arguing that everyone, when asked, can just say "oh, just read my ISO."

If that's what you're saying, then that works for everyone, so you can just go read my ISO instead of asking me anything about my posts.

Using your brain and your fingers isn't, Juls.

Look at his posts, and post in 4 sentences exactly why you find Adrien Scummy.

Is that too difficult?

I'm done with you. I did what you asked. You can fucking do what I said or not. I truly don't give a shit. If you want to vote me for doing exactly what you asked then good luck with getting me lynched.

I can't tell if your cop-out is Scum or Town driven.

It feels like a good act, though.

[Juls]

Wake I literally have a very succinct ISO since I was catching up and not having conversations with people. I have my summary of the game in about 6-8 posts. You are just being an ass hole by not reading it and making it out like I am doing something wrong by pointing you to it.

[Wake1]

Wake I literally have a very succinct ISO since I was catching up and not having conversations with people. I have my summary of the game in about 6-8 posts. You are just being an ass hole by not reading it and making it out like I am doing something wrong by pointing you to it.

If I have to regurgitate my posts to the people who don't/won't read them, why shouldn't you?

[Juls]

OK, I am going to do this 10 pages at a time. I will place my vote when I get fully caught up.

Pages 1 thru 10

I am town reading Not_Mafia, SKOT, Slamence20
I am scum reading TheAdrienC, Clusk92
I am flip-flopping back and forth on farside22, Alina, Wake88

My town read on Not_Mafia is because he is asking questions that seem relevant to me. I especially like post 96 because he challenges Wake on his claim of reaction testing and his response to Burning_Town in 212 about them making a judgement call on Wake based on "getting us out of RVS".

My town read on SKOT comes from his abrasiveness regarding "patty-caking" and his OMGUS "slap in the face" vote of Aegor. I am not crazy about this and I worry we are going to butt heads but I am more and more reading this type of thumbing-your-nose-up-at-site-meta as a town thing. Until someone proves me wrong I am going to stick with that reading. I also think Aegor comes off looking bad in the exchange for suggesting we policy lynch SKOT and then voting him for his "slap in the face" vote (which is essentially the same thing as policy-lynching). However, I am not sure hypocrisy is strictly a scum-tell so I am not ready to lean scum on Aegor yet.

I can't really put a finger on one thing I like about Slamence20, it's just a gut-type read right now.

My scum read on AdrienC is based on several things. First his FOS of wake without a vote followed by a vote on Wake but then asking people not to hammer in the same breath. His posts 149 and 154 feel forced and he apologized to SKOT for being suspicious of him and has been white knighting. In general, I haven't seen a single post from Adrien to make me think he is town.

My scum read on Clusk is weak but it's mainly to do with his trying to push Salamence's "vote for wake" comments as a manipulation and a scum-tell.

OK, I am scared to go down the rabbit-hole with farside22 but I guess I have to. I have played two recent games with farside22 and both games I knew she was town from like the first 4 or 5 posts. I am not getting a strong town read on her here and that is making me nervous. If it is still relevant (might not be) I would like her to at least address a couple things: in post 144 where you call wake a bad-town read as opposed to scum. What differentiates him as bad-town vs. scum? Also, how do you feel your pushing on Clusk about the definition of manipulate led into your read of him? I admit I feel like a hypocrite because I scum read him based on his pushing of Salemance's manipulation but I felt like your hounding him on "definitions" just came off as a little too much of nothing. If you can elaborate on what you gained from it I would appreciate it. From the town-side of my farside read I have liked her vote on clusk, her paranoia over Alina buddying her, and her stance on not-policy-lynching SKOT.

Alina, my main waffling on her revolves around all the buddying she is doing of farside. I noted it in one, two, three places. I am trying to decide if this is a scum-scum, town-town, or scum-town association. But I don't think it is Alina town/farside scum associating. I guess it could be but that is the least likely to me. There have been some townie posts from her though.

I don't know what to think about Wake. He is just all over the place. I joined the majority in hating his first post but then the aggressiveness with which he defended it seems kinda townie.

So that's all I have time for tonight. I will try to do at least another 10 pages tomorrow night. If I was going to vote, it would definitely be on TheAdrienC at this point.

Alright I will pre-apologize but I am going to do this a page at a time until my daughters danc class is over because I am on my ipad and jumping back and forth between notepad and the browser like I do on my. PC is not happening on this. So....

Page 11

-Wake's enormous wall is a massive word count of saying one thing:

reaction test

-I don't like Mirahawks 269. It's pushing a very weak argument and I think Scarab's responses have been what I would expect from town.
-Salamance's 271 is fantastic except where he goes off the rails on SKOT.
-Aegors 274 is the first post I got town vibes from but I don't like the push to lynch lurkers. He keeps making policy-lynch threats but isn't doing too much scum hunting.

Page 12

-Aegor 279: is he seriously accusing boon of role fishing....for a scum role? bad vote.
-Adrien 287. This post is so fake. First the p-edit is not real. He is putting the p-edit at the top? Second, I hate how he finger wags at wake and says he is taking his vote off but he's watching him, etc. I also hate the "I'm not your friend" speech. This whole post feels like what Adrien "thinks" town should sound like but it just comes off completely manufactured. And then the vote on boon is just ridiculous. He says he wanted to keep his head low but why in the world would boon have posted "hmmm" if he was trying to lay low? That just brought attention to him. I disagree with Salamance that adrien is bussing wake. I think Adrien is scum and wake is probably bad-town like farside said.
-Town read on Alina is growing. If you are town, stop being so tentative. Trust your gut. If you are scum I will never believe the innocent routine again!

Page 13

-Stupid self vote is stupid. Let's see who takes the bait. I predict the policy lynching king Aegor.

(Oh, I just remembered something I forgot to say on page 12. That big post from Adrien, he also copies farside with definition shit. This guy is seriously fake)

-Hmmm, day vig shenanigans. Since we are still d1, I assume this is fake.

Page 14

-Why is BP rehashing things he has already commented on?

We will. I still don't know how to read you. You're either scum or just that looney guy in the village that always tries to make up conversation with the other people in the cafés and that goes to the hardware store on purpose to make friends and to pretend he's having a conversation but that no one takes seriously ultimately. So you're either that or you're scum trying to look that way

I LOL'd, you can be town.

-I'm liking Scarab more and more.
-Uh, this is a terrible claim by SKOT and my town read on him just completely reversed. No town would question the validity of a daykill then claim. More non-townieness from SKOT.
- Oh look more fake hysterics from Adrien.

Page 15

-No comments, just theory talk.

Page 16

-If AdrienC is town, I am probably never going to be able to read him ever. This guy is so scummy/fake.
-SKOT, if you are town, repeat after me..."what I did was dumb, I should not have claimed, I made a bad move." And holy shit I need to meta Aegor to see if he always policy lynches instead of scum hunting!

Page 17

-Oh wow, SKOT actually showed some remorse. I wasn't expecting that. Now I don't know how to feel.

Page 18

Scarab vs BP feels like town on town.

I'm done for now, daughters class is almost over and my eyes are glazing over. I might do a few more pages before bed but no guarantees.

First my catch up post (some of it may or may not make sense anymore but I am not editing it)

(some URLs fixed by Toomai)

Spoiler: Page 19 through 39

The AdrienC post 498 is dumb. Nobody is going to claim scum tracker so what's the fucking point?

Alina post 501 - Why does it matter that Damon has posted? What about his post made you think he was so town?

Damon_Gant, post 502 - second post of the game where he says he has a lot of town reads but doesn't elaborate. Two posts that are full of nothing. Anybody can say "I have a bunch of town reads. Thanks y'all, see ya later"

Burning_Town, post 507: How is making light of rule breaking and being a douche a scum tell? Why is reinfoe not a scumspect since he was "placing bets"?

Around 516 - All the suspicion of Boonskies seem opportunistic. It's clear to me the guy is just cutting up and people are latching on to that as a scum tell. He may be scum but not for anything he has done so far.

Salamence20, post 518 is super town. I don't agree with him/her 100% on SKOT but the arguments are sound (except the random vote one) and I 100% agree with his/her read on Boonskies.


Aeronaut post 523 --- learn sarcasm. You too clusk.

Not_Mafia is town

AdrienC - information gathering is not necessarily a town tell. I also hate when people do VCA with no analysis. Information is good, information without analysis is useless.

Hunterseeker post 536 is odd.


Hmmm, not liking this flashwagon on Hunterseeker. Not that I don't like the wagon, but I don't like the reasons. I am reading Hunterseeker as a troll at this point. So null. I like this post by BP for acknowledging this. And another opportunistic vote by Aeronaut.

Really dislike post 589 by Damon_Gant. He just grabbed a spattering of players and posted not-very-deep commentary on him. Geez, he even looked at my slot who I think had 3 posts? And then he jumps on the flashwagon. He is now in my scum column.

AdrienC - LOLOLOLOLOL


I'm starting to have a problem with the way Wake's posts are coming off. It might be a style thing but I feel like his posts are too forced. I don't know if I can explain it properly but the linked is an example. I'm probably still a little gun-shy to call him scum for it but it's just something I have been noticing. Another example in 601. The puffed-chest comment. And 604 with the snapping at Not_Mafia. Both feel over the top.

AdrienC - What?. My vote will reside on this guy until he ceases to exist. I pray a vig has already killed him in the night.

shaddowez 611: Hmmm, this is interesting that he chose to vote Clusk instead of HS when he suspects HS and HS is the leading wagon. If we find out that HS is scum or shaddowez is scum, this is a potential buddy-association to remember.

More policy-lynch hunting by Aegor instead of scum-hunting.

shaddowez post 621 - why the big case on Boonskies and instead keeping vote on Clusk where the case is much weaker?

I like farside's 626. Particularly the Aegor part. But knowing Clusk's flip I doubt scum-farside would be so "sure" in a read she knew was town, although if it's multiball that goes out the window. Another good post by farside. I didn't notice this.

AdrienC translation: I will go whereever the wind of suspicion is blowing

OK, I am getting really annoyed at reading the style of Wake's posts, so I am pretty much putting him on ignore and letting the rest of you figure him out. All his posts seem forced in their delivery but I am not necessarily getting a scum-read from the content of them so I just can't read him. Contrast that with AdrienC who I find everything he says to be scummy and fake/forced.


This is a town post by BP.

LOL, fake.. And fuck yeah to BP. Note to self: play more games with BP, I like this kid.

Oh look it's me. Hi me!

What the hell, Aegor? This whole post is great except for the vote. Why vote HS while you are making your case on AdrienC?

Also, I am just coming off a game where scum claimed town-commuter so I REALLY am disliking AdrienC's claim.

Note to self, if Alina ever suspects me, claim anything and her suspicion goes Poof!

@farside: Um, I don't think salamance provoked Adrien to claim at all. Adrien did that for no apparent reason.

AdrienC - what kinda of sense does this make?

Fantastic analysis by this player. Let's see who actually read it.

I wouldn't know but a question for

SKOT

, do you find this post to be buddying or not? You seem to have some experience with this player.

Who the hell is this guy? How am I on page 30 and seeing this name for the first time? This slot is either scum or seriously needs to replace out because this is unacceptable as town.

Adrien and Alina sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G...ugh, you guys need to get a room. {this was petty, but seriously...after the game, you guys should chat...maybe meet up...you are obviously smitten. There's no shame in it, I met my husband online...we have been married 11 years}....I am loopy right now....too much reading.

@Aeronaut why did you provide reads on this set of people in particular?

Even though it turned out to be wrong, I can see this as a good argument from Not_Mafia

@farside. Look up in this wall a bit, I noted one BP post in particular I felt was town but I have in general liked their posting. I could probably dig up more specific things if the ones I mention here doesn't strike you as town but I don't know that it is necessary at this point. For the most part, its been them saying/posting things I thought to myself as I was reading through.

Also, @farside: Why did it take you so long to come to this conclusion about Damon?

Good job SKOT, maybe we will get along after all.

Aeronaut's over-defense of a non-case is noted.

reinoe, spoiler that shit.

And BP/Scarabare back at it...

@Alina: I hope you mean you ISO'd HS instead of Clusk, otherwise this post makes zero sense. Ah, yeah, you did.Good.

This is an interesting question to ask. Probably not scum.


General note: I feel like TheAdrienC's V/LA was meant to look as if he was "gone" in the night but in reality he has posted a lot during the night on-site and last visited today (Saturday).

VOTE: AdrienC

Also, it looks like its multi-ball.

There you go. Here are my four sentences:

Read.
My.
Fucking.
Posts.

[BP]

vote: Wake

start Fucking cooperating

[BP]

vote: Wake

[Wake1]

So you regurgitate instead of saying from brain to screen what your latest reasons are. It's simple for me, yet you don't seem to be able to. You only regurgitate. If you're Town you should have nothing to hide, and have no reason to fight against "aggressive" inquiry. Lazy. Now you've given me an excuse to do the same when someone asks me for my latest, updated thoughts 200 posts from now. Laziness isn't indicative of alignment, but isn't flailing one?

BP's vote is crappy, devoid of reason. He wants me to cooperate with someone who isn't cleared, while not questioning it. Cooperate my ass. I'll not cooperate if I have questions, and I'll take extreme exception to an anti-Town vote like that.

[Wake1]

Juls, your bias aside, what do you think of BP's vote? Is it grounded in pro-Town reasoning? Or is it lacking good reason?

[Juls]

The reason people are voting you is because you are being obtuse. Yeah, I am lazy. I am too lazy to do something I have already did. You ask me to explain my suspicions in 4 sentences, I did. I can't show you every instance in which I saw him as fake in 4 sentences. That is why you need to look at each individual one (in my ISO) where I explain why that particular post is fake or wrong.

P-edit: BP is one of my town reads. The vote is likely annoyance based. I get it. They will likely change their vote I would expect. But what you are doing is just fishing for non alignment based reactions. If I were scum, I would be just as annoyed at you. So basically what you are being is a distraction.

[Wake1]

No one's the leader of Town, and you're not the boss of me, so like hell should I feel compelled to shut up and start cooperating without asking questions.

BP's either Scum or a bad player who gets in the way of Scumhunting. Just an impediment with a bad attitude, it seems.

[Juls]

BP's either Scum or a bad player who gets in the way of Scumhunting. Just an impediment with a bad attitude, it seems.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[Wake1]

The reason people are voting you is because you are being obtuse. Yeah, I am lazy. I am too lazy to do something I have already did. You ask me to explain my suspicions in 4 sentences, I did. I can't show you every instance in which I saw him as fake in 4 sentences. That is why you need to look at each individual one (in my ISO) where I explain why that particular post is fake or wrong.

P-edit: BP is one of my town reads. The vote is likely annoyance based. I get it. They will likely change their vote I would expect. But what you are doing is just fishing for non alignment based reactions. If I were scum, I would be just as annoyed at you. So basically what you are being is a distraction.

Keep it real: I only have one vote from a bad player.

I'm trying to see if you're honest Town or bullshitting Scum. Why it's simply too tough for you to put in four sentences why you find Adrien Scummy piques my interest. What you're basically telling me is that you'll no longer be asking me questions about my posts, because you think the proper excuse to inquiry is "look at my ISO." Oddly enough, you can ask me any question and I'll easily be able to put it in 4 sentences. Yet you can't, so either you're far too uptight, or you're nervous because you're Scum not willing to answer a simple question.

Scum would have every reason to try and discredit my poking and prodding, looking for answers. Juls, when you react negatively to simple curiosity, what do you think that means?

[Juls]

If you want me to respect your words and wisdom then don't be an ass hole in the way you address people. You can find scum without being so in people's face. Hint: most of us aren't scum so stop talking to us like we are all caught-scum.

HS is scum for saying the scum/town ratio ( so we will be put off by it when he gets lynched), for saying he 'would bus Adrian' if he were scum buddies with Adrian, while a voting for Adrian, and for saying he and I couldn't be scum buddies together which is setting up for you to lynch me when he flips scum.

Adrian is scum because he is fake as fuck. I will not repost every instance of it that I noted because you can hit that little 'ISO' by name to see them. And he constantly shifts with where the wind of suspicion is floating.

P-edit: read my catchup post. I have recently finished a game where scum claimed commuter so it is highly suspect to me on top of all the other reasons I am scum reading him.

Why are you unaccepting of the bolded?

[Wake1]

BP's either Scum or a bad player who gets in the way of Scumhunting. Just an impediment with a bad attitude, it seems.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Wrong.

I have no problem being asked questions, nor do I tell them to check my ISO to avoid being asked questions directly, or tell others to cooperate by not asking questions.

If you're Town, then stop being a lazy lump and allow more than one train of inquiry in this game. And whatever you do, don't try to hide behind your ISO so you can escape direct inquiry!

[Wake1]

If you want me to respect your words and wisdom then don't be an ass hole in the way you address people. You can find scum without being so in people's face. Hint: most of us aren't scum so stop talking to us like we are all caught-scum.

HS is scum for saying the scum/town ratio ( so we will be put off by it when he gets lynched), for saying he 'would bus Adrian' if he were scum buddies with Adrian, while a voting for Adrian, and for saying he and I couldn't be scum buddies together which is setting up for you to lynch me when he flips scum.

Adrian is scum because he is fake as fuck. I will not repost every instance of it that I noted because you can hit that little 'ISO' by name to see them. And he constantly shifts with where the wind of suspicion is floating.

P-edit: read my catchup post. I have recently finished a game where scum claimed commuter so it is highly suspect to me on top of all the other reasons I am scum reading him.

Why are you unaccepting of the bolded?

See, here's another reaction from you that piques my interest.

Whoever said I was unaccepting of it?

I told you I wanted you to boil down your reasoning to 4 sentences. Never did I say I didn't accept it.

Now, how about you explain that discrepancy, why don't you?

[Juls]

You are flat out misrepresenting me. I answered your question in 3 sentences. One or which is directing you to all the examples in my ISO. How exactly would you answer the question more succinctly? You are calling me lazy for doing what you asked.



P-edit: holy fuck you are dense. You are unaccepting of it because you have spent the past two fucking pages saying I didn't do it. So therefore I made the logical leap that you have not accepted what I said.

[reinoe]

BP's either Scum or a bad player who gets in the way of Scumhunting.

I'm just gonna leave this right here for everyone to see from a different game...

Also didn't you place a naked vote on TSO?

I certainly did. It's called gathering reactions. Also known as Scumhunting. You should try it sometime.

So basically when Wake places naked votes on other players it's scumhunting and other players should try it. When other player place naked votes on him they're terrible players who stand in the way of scumhunting.

[Wake1]

You are flat out misrepresenting me. I answered your question in 3 sentences. One or which is directing you to all the examples in my ISO. How exactly would you answer the question more succinctly? You are calling me lazy for doing what you asked.



P-edit: holy fuck you are dense. You are unaccepting of it because you have spent the past two fucking pages saying I didn't do it. So therefore I made the logical leap that you have not accepted what I said.

Interesting.

I ask you exactly what makes you feel Adrien is "fake as fuck." In four sentences. Don't point at your ISO as an excuse, etc. Just say why you feel he's fake as fuck. Why? If you can do it in less than 4 sentences, good. Just explain why. If you're Town you should have absolutely no problem with this. I don't recall ever saying your statement about Adrien was unacceptable: I want you to explain it in four or less posts. You dancing around and trying to convolute things while the Village Idiot BP lobs a worthless vote isn't helping my impression of either of you being Town.

Can you put in one post exactly why you find Adrien Scummy in four sentences or less? If not, the more you fight and struggle to not explain yourself, the more I'm going to go fullblown gladiator on you until I pry the truth from you or get mislynched. It's simple, so swallow your pride and do it already. You know better than anyone else not to hide or escape telling the truth.