Mini 1592: Flying Aces (Game Over)

[farside22]

Scum reading Marcrell, majiffy and pash.

why not: do you think pants keeping his vote on pash is scummy?

Thor: I get your point, question is meta enough to make you unvote? Pash over explaining and discussion about how his vote is perceived...can't say without game reference to say if I would.

Dr.pant: link to game you are referring to about pasch please.

[Majiffy]

Scum reading Marcrell,

majiffy

and pash.

Go on

[farside22]

Scum reading Marcrell,

majiffy

and pash.

Go on

You basing a push on something completely null, then are happy with your vote even after Thor and shir explain old school ways.
The vote was rvs and your satisfied with this:

Pointing out the pointlessness of your vote, like that it's over a joke, only serves to distance yourself from it if it goes to lynch. I don't like it, not even on page 2.

VOTE: Shiryu

Which is over the top reaction to an rvs vote.
Rvs doesn't ever fucking last unless said player is lurking it up.

[Majiffy]

Scum reading Marcrell,

majiffy

and pash.

Go on

You basing a push on something completely null, then are happy with your vote even after Thor and shir explain old school ways.
The vote was rvs and your satisfied with this:

Pointing out the pointlessness of your vote, like that it's over a joke, only serves to distance yourself from it if it goes to lynch. I don't like it, not even on page 2.

VOTE: Shiryu

Which is over the top reaction to an rvs vote.
Rvs doesn't ever fucking last unless said player is lurking it up.

I don't see it as "completely null".
Thor's "explanation" of old school ways extended as far as saying that scumhunting hasn't really changed. Scum motivation is still scum motivation. Which supports my argument.
And I've explained why I don't see Pasch's argument as false, merely a bit exaggerated. Which is typical Pasch playstyle, as has already been explained by Pants.

Anything else?

[farside22]

Scum reading Marcrell,

majiffy

and pash.

Go on

You basing a push on something completely null, then are happy with your vote even after Thor and shir explain old school ways.
The vote was rvs and your satisfied with this:

Pointing out the pointlessness of your vote, like that it's over a joke, only serves to distance yourself from it if it goes to lynch. I don't like it, not even on page 2.

VOTE: Shiryu

Which is over the top reaction to an rvs vote.
Rvs doesn't ever fucking last unless said player is lurking it up.

I don't see it as "completely null".
Thor's "explanation" of old school ways extended as far as saying that scumhunting hasn't really changed. Scum motivation is still scum motivation. Which supports my argument.
And I've explained why I don't see Pasch's argument as false, merely a bit exaggerated. Which is typical Pasch playstyle, as has already been explained by Pants.

Anything else?

It's an rvs vote.
Why take it seriously?

[Majiffy]

Because Shin-whateverthefuck already has their role PM. And I agree with Pasch, except he believes the motivation he outlined was a

conscious effort

while I believe it was

unconscious

. Either way, still alignment-indicative, and still indicative of SCUM.

Which you would probably get if you bothered to even read the damn posts in that big whopping 5 pages of a thread we have.

I know, hard work, that reading.

[farside22]

Just going to point out both of these were stated before dr. Pants explained himself fully.

Yeah, but it's not like Shiryu's vote is actually scummy either, I'm basically backing you on a OMGUS vanity wagon. I'm fine with that, and fine with making him dead, let's just be honest about the relative strength of reads here - the cat is not more townish than Shiryu right now.

No but his overexplaining is troubling. Both in reference to his lack of present meta knowledge and the whole 'look im makjng a joke rvs post about a joke! Like me guys plz!'

I dont have an issue with it. Hes going a bit far - making it out to be a conscious manipulative vote - but its not inherently untrue.

Shir scummy for over explaining but pasch isn't? No seriously either over explaining yourself is scummy or it's not.
Also why is lack of present meta even necessary? I sure as heck didn't read games or scum theories bs when I took time off mafia.

[farside22]

Because Shin-whateverthefuck already has their role PM. And I agree with Pasch, except he believes the motivation he outlined was a

conscious effort

while I believe it was

unconscious

. Either way, still alignment-indicative, and still indicative of SCUM.

Which you would probably get if you bothered to even read the damn posts in that big whopping 5 pages of a thread we have.

I know, hard work, that reading.

Post 54 from you makes me seriously doubt you see it as unconscious.

[Majiffy]

Shir scummy for over explaining but pasch isn't? No seriously either over explaining yourself is scummy or it's not.
Also why is lack of present meta even necessary? I sure as heck didn't read games or scum theories bs when I took time off mafia.

Except Pasch wasn't overexplaining, Pasch was overtheorizing. Exaggerating. Not trying to explain themselves too much.

Which is really obviously totally different and I am going to tunnel the shit out of you if Shir flips scum.

Lack of present meta isn't necessary. But Shir is covering his bases for future scummy play.

Post 54 from you makes me seriously doubt you see it as unconscious.

I'm not sure you quite understand the difference between conscious and unconscious in the realm of mafia.

[farside22]

Scum reading Marcrell,

majiffy

and pash.

Go on

You basing a push on something completely null, then are happy with your vote even after Thor and shir explain old school ways.
The vote was rvs and your satisfied with this:

Pointing out the pointlessness of your vote, like that it's over a joke, only serves to distance yourself from it if it goes to lynch. I don't like it, not even on page 2.

VOTE: Shiryu

Which is over the top reaction to an rvs vote.
Rvs doesn't ever fucking last unless said player is lurking it up.

I don't see it as "completely null".
Thor's "explanation" of old school ways extended as far as saying that scumhunting hasn't really changed. Scum motivation is still scum motivation. Which supports my argument.
And I've explained why I don't see Pasch's argument as false, merely a bit exaggerated. Which is typical Pasch playstyle, as has already been explained by Pants.

Anything else?

I just realized your understanding pants meta on pasch but ignoring the fact pants is still voting pasche.

Shir scummy for over explaining but pasch isn't? No seriously either over explaining yourself is scummy or it's not.
Also why is lack of present meta even necessary? I sure as heck didn't read games or scum theories bs when I took time off mafia.

Except Pasch wasn't overexplaining, Pasch was overtheorizing. Exaggerating. Not trying to explain themselves too much.

Which is really obviously totally different and I am going to tunnel the shit out of you if Shir flips scum.

Lack of present meta isn't necessary. But Shir is covering his bases for future scummy play.

Post 54 from you makes me seriously doubt you see it as unconscious.

I'm not sure you quite understand the difference between conscious and unconscious in the realm of mafia.

Why is exaggerating a town tell in this case. Once again let's refer to your post before meta discussion happened.


As for your second statement, I mean theory about shir. Have we met?
I'm farside.
I hate theories. I think anything a player says can be spinners into a theory and is not scum hunting for worth voting for.
Nice to meet you.
Is your name scum?

[Anatole Kuragin]

3 town reads on page 2.
I hope the rest of this game is on easy mod.

Gut check

VOTE: Majiffy

Could you tell us said reads? I don't find anything particularly telling, though may be more when we have more to go on.

Hey you arent voting shiryu. You should consider it.

Properly considered. VOTE: shiryu RVS votes may be shitty, but not this shitty.

As CoOlDuDe pointed out, this looks like fishing for reads, and is scummier than whatever this philosophical meta/joke/mafiascum nostalgia debate is about.

Bonus scumminess for Pas for being the fourth vote on a dumb wagon.

townreads from cooldude and thor

[Anatole Kuragin]

VOTE: Marcell

[Anatole Kuragin]

Hey you arent voting shiryu. You should consider it.

Why are you pushing for a lynch that got freakishly big which started from an RVS vote? You don't think there's any more efficient way to spend day one than immediately lynching with the first dumb wagon that pops up?

wtf is a mafblock

[viking cat]

I like Anatole.

I like Cooldog even though he's going to ignore at least a few of my posts.

My other half agreed with Thor about Dr Pants last night (prior to the timeline breakdown), but I'm kinda meh about all that swirl atm.

VOTE: Marcell

p-edit mafblack, not mafblock. It's one of the skins/templates available in the user control panel. Black and grey background.

[farside22]

I have to ask is there an ignore feature on ms I'm not seeing? I just felt the back and forth between maf and me was ignored.

FTR: I expect better from majiffy to do better then vote and push for the shit reason he is doing. Never mind that his oppinion of pasch is before meta reasoning and he used that as an excuse to be fine with pasch exaggeration.

[Thor665]

a piece of matching meta does not make or break a case

plus, "unvote" is not scum. its mod confirmed. i think i remember a certain someone saying that before.....

Okay...let me walk you through it as I see it.

You have a pool of players, and in RVS they are all at some baseline (whether you start everyone as town or scum or null or whatever)
You vote Pasch.
Pasch does something you equate to a town Pasch and *also* that you equated to Pasch almost being mislynched which would be bad for town.
You try to 'help' him with this.
But you keep your vote on him - thus not showing any shift in your awareness of him being more likely town and *also* not showing any shift in wanting to avoid a mislynch on Pasch.
I call you a filthy scum and vote you.
And now we are here.

@Vikingcat - one of your heads sounds sexy and brilliant, the other is voting Marcell.

@Majiffy - you are actually discerning between over explanation and over theorizing as an explanation of what you are doing...that feels gakked up.

@Farside - neither of you came to any solid 'gotcha' moment with the other, nor did either of you attempt to pull in another body. That means it is likely the argument would not be commented on by most. My question to Majiffy here is the best 'gotcha' I saw in the entire thing, and I still consider it a lesser catch than the one on Pants. Would you be willing to vote Pants?

[farside22]

@thor: I'm not sure about pants currently to vote.
I feel stronger that majiffy using a theory he pulled out of his ass to push a case, instead of something like pasche is more scummy. When exaggerating becomes a non concern or not worth being concerned. I have to wonder where the town mentality is.

[Paschendale]

Which is over the top reaction to an rvs vote.
Rvs doesn't ever fucking last unless said player is lurking it up.

I like to get serious as soon as possible. If you truly believe that RVS votes are random, then any reaction to an RVS vote is over the top. Clearly I don't think that. I hope you don't either, because then the only way to get past it is to make a big deal out of nothing every single game. Instead, RVS ends with players taking RVS votes seriously and analyzing them.

Shir scummy for over explaining but pasch isn't? No seriously either over explaining yourself is scummy or it's not.
Also why is lack of present meta even necessary? I sure as heck didn't read games or scum theories bs when I took time off mafia.

Do you not see the differences between our explanations? Shiryu tried to laugh off a vote and avoid taking responsibility for it. I disclosed my thoughts and justified a vote. Why do you think explaining is towny or scummy and not how, why, or what you explain?

@Anatole: What do you mean by "fishing for reads"? Shouldn't we all want reads from each other?

@Pants: So, pick a conclusion? Does my vote look more or less scummy to you? I assume your opening vote on me was just because lately we've been in so many games together, but that was before I even posted. You've said that my actions so far match my town meta, but you "didn't like" my vote. So which is it? And what the hell does this mean?

plus, "unvote" is not scum. its mod confirmed.

Peedit: Farside, I don't think you understand the point that Majiffy was making with "exaggeration". He's not suggesting that I'm being dishonest. He's saying I'm reading too much into it.

[Why not]

@farside: null atm

I think that at best kiryu's overexplanation of his post — if it's really a thing — derives from his nervousness as a noob.

[Thor665]

@thor: I'm not sure about pants currently to vote.

We're, like, one RL day into the game. I wasn't thinking the buy in for votes should be particularly a high hurdle at this stage.

[Majiffy]

I just realized your understanding pants meta on pasch but ignoring the fact pants is still voting pasche.

He's also an idiot.

Why is exaggerating a town tell in this case. Once again let's refer to your post before meta discussion happened.


As for your second statement, I mean theory about shir. Have we met?
I'm farside.
I hate theories. I think anything a player says can be spinners into a theory and is not scum hunting for worth voting for.
Nice to meet you.
Is your name scum?

It's not inherently a towntell. It's just Pasch's typical town behavior. You cannot possibly be not understanding this in any other way other that fully willfully and consciously.

My name's town and you're defending your buddy against a case you think is weak but scares you how hard it is to attack.

Hey you arent voting shiryu. You should consider it.

Why are you pushing for a lynch that got freakishly big which started from an RVS vote? You don't think there's any more efficient way to spend day one than immediately lynching with the first dumb wagon that pops up?

Considering I started the wagon, that post was me pushing for the wagon to form and was not freakishly big at that time, I'm going to say no this is the best way to spend my day and you're a moron who can't comprehend basic chronology.

FTR: I expect better from majiffy to do better then vote and push for the shit reason he is doing. Never mind that his oppinion of pasch is before meta reasoning and he used that as an excuse to be fine with pasch exaggeration.

Because it's out of the realm of possibility for me to have ever had played with Pasch except for the many times I have.

Would you like me to verbatim repeat what Pants said or?

Would that make you feel better?

@Majiffy - you are actually discerning between over explanation and over theorizing as an explanation of what you are doing...that feels gakked up.

I don't particularly care how you feel about it, Thor.

[Why not]

@thor: I'm not sure about pants currently to vote.

We're, like, one RL day into the game. I wasn't thinking the buy in for votes should be particularly a high hurdle at this stage.

you posed the drpants wagon as something really srs

[Thor665]

I don't particularly care how you feel about it, Thor.

Well, you should, people's perception of you matters in this game regardless of your alignment.
So you honestly sat there and saw that as a differential issue enough to call one out and not the other?

[Thor665]

@thor: I'm not sure about pants currently to vote.

We're, like, one RL day into the game. I wasn't thinking the buy in for votes should be particularly a high hurdle at this stage.

you posed the drpants wagon as something really srs

It is really serious.
Do you not think it's serious?

[Majiffy]

I don't particularly care how you feel about it, Thor.

Well, you should, people's perception of you matters in this game regardless of your alignment.
So you honestly sat there and saw that as a differential issue enough to call one out and not the other?

Yes. And I've explained so much.