NY175: Sycamore Scuffle

[Not_Mafia]

Evidently the mod has been having trouble finding replacements since one slot nearly had to be modkilled.

And if you wanted a change in the game, you had every power to bring about that change yourself.

[Aeronaut]

Reading Reinoe's ISO, there's not a whole lot of conclusions that can be drawn without a lot of assumptions, really.There were only two things I saw of note.

1. Reinoe defends SKOT without much real evidence except that "admitting to an unorthadox playstyle is very townie", and that Reinoe had played with SKOT in unnamed other games, and that it was normal. Again, not a whole lot of conclusion to draw here, just something to keep in mind.

2. Reinoe calls out Boonskies a few times, which would be unnessesary if they were scum buddies. Of course, it could've been an act, but Reinoe provides some solid evidence against Boon, or it seems pretty solidish to me, so I don't think they were together. That being said, we don't know if it's multiball or no, but if we find out there's an SK or vig, we should come back to this.

Reinoe on Boon vvv

Boon, due to events that took place in OPEN 562 I no longer believe that you're just a VI playing VI. I believe that you're scum.


The tl/dr is that we had a player in that game playing the VI but a lot of people were saying he was "too scummy to be scum". However not only was that player scum, he was a Serial Killer.

Now the common perception is that people will not play in such a way because it greatly increases the probability that they'll wind up getting lynched. The common perception is that Serial Killers will especially play cautiously. But what a learning experience that was.

VOTE: Boonskiies

[Wake1]

Alina, if you would, have you ever been Scum on this site?

[Alina]

I only have one completed game and I was a VT there. Me and Shaddowez have linked that game to you before I think, if you want me to link it again I can.

[Wake1]

That would be appreciated.

[Alina]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=56711 Here you go.

[Aeronaut]

@Wake I've checked it already. She's the same.


@SKOT forgot to ask, what made you want to investigate N_M?

[Mirhawk]

Hmm

I have to admit that I thought Reinoe was town. Looking back at his posts isn't very informative in regards to who he may be scum with either.

It's easier to discern players he probably wasn't aligned with, but these are also of limited use as there is still a very clear possibility of multiple scum factions.

The only observation I'd be willing to commit on is that he probably isn't on a team with Wake.

I also kind of think those nightkills make sense if there were two scumteams looking for one another. This would be an opportune time to do so as there are already a lot of townie bodies on the ground.

[Mirhawk]

@bp
What makes Aegor stand out from the other people on the wagon?

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

@Wake I've checked it already. She's the same.


@SKOT forgot to ask, what made you want to investigate N_M?

just looking at the vote placement...

[TheAdrienC]

I've watched Adrien come online for a few minutes and then go offline again. Adrien, start responding to the questions you've been ignoring.

I read when I have a few seconds between customers at work off my iPhone. If I can't make a meaningful response from the phone, I'm not going to post at all. I'm going to go through the posts directed at me.

[TheAdrienC]

Thoughts on Day 3 posts so far...

VOTE: Adrien

Naked vote again. We are way too late in the game for us be using naked votes.

So,

vote: Aegor

And another...

Hmm.....

I dunno about Boon, to be honest. I think he's just being obnoxious.

I've watched Adrien come online for a few minutes and then go offline again. Adrien, start responding to the questions you've been ignoring.

P-edit:

Yea, Aegor pushed that lynch extremely hard. From the start of D2, he wanted HS quicklynched as quickly as possible.

Of course, he wasn't the only one on that wagon. I just don't like how much he pushed for it when there were clearly some scummier people to lynch. My vote is between him and Adrien at the moment. Waiting for both of them to say something before I do anything though.

PP-edit: Realistically, I don't know if we were ever going to get a replacement.

That is something that definitely cannot be ignored right now.

Reading Reinoe's ISO, there's not a whole lot of conclusions that can be drawn without a lot of assumptions, really.There were only two things I saw of note.

1.

Reinoe defends SKOT without much real evidence except that "admitting to an unorthadox playstyle is very townie", and that Reinoe had played with SKOT in unnamed other games, and that it was normal. Again, not a whole lot of conclusion to draw here, just something to keep in mind.

2. Reinoe calls out Boonskies a few times, which would be unnessesary if they were scum buddies. Of course, it could've been an act, but Reinoe provides some solid evidence against Boon, or it seems pretty solidish to me, so I don't think they were together. That being said, we don't know if it's multiball or no, but if we find out there's an SK or vig, we should come back to this.

Reinoe on Boon vvv

Boon, due to events that took place in OPEN 562 I no longer believe that you're just a VI playing VI. I believe that you're scum.


The tl/dr is that we had a player in that game playing the VI but a lot of people were saying he was "too scummy to be scum". However not only was that player scum, he was a Serial Killer.

Now the common perception is that people will not play in such a way because it greatly increases the probability that they'll wind up getting lynched. The common perception is that Serial Killers will especially play cautiously. But what a learning experience that was.

VOTE: Boonskiies

I'm going to come back on this SKOT quote...I have a hunch involving him...

Now, my thoughts about the game in general...

My gut feeling is that there is only one actual "mafia" group because of the way Reinoe's flip was worded. I agree when NM said that this is either SK, werewolves, or a really good shot from a vig. We can eliminate something I think I've only seen once on a game outside of this site years ago where it was one scum faction with two night kills. Someone from the mafia did not kill there own godfather.

I have a question involving the tracker results. Assuming there's 2-4 mafia members remaining, how does their kill go through? Is there a designated member of the scum who delivers all their night kills or do they only send one to do it or does it show them visiting their NK if you track any one of them? Reason why I ask is because anyone who isn't shown to visit anyone could be a scum person who just didn't deliver the kill, right? Not saying I believe NM is scum, I'm just saying that tracker results in general will only be conclusive at someone's innocence or guilt is if they were caught visiting a person who was killed, right?

The quote I said I was gonna come back to about SKOT. Every single PR from the town we have had flip from the town had an even/odd night modifier with it. SKOT's claim, if I recall correctly, was a full tracker claim. That is drawing a red flag on my radar.

I know Aero went over Reinoe's ISO but I want to do it as well to see if maybe I catch something he might have missed.

I'm done playing defensive and getting sick of it. The last few phases I've been playing defense and trying to respond to accusations. I'm done with that. It's time for me to find scum so I can actually be of use instead of just a warm body with a vote.

[Aegor]

So, who here doesn't think we're in multi-ball? I'm still of the mindset that there's an Odd-Night Town Vigilante out there, to complement the Even-Night Vig, and that two Scum factions murdered this Night. Who here will say that is unfeasible? I am curious.

I am curious as to why you are

still

pushing this ridiculous theory.

Our even-night vig was dead before last night. We had two NKs. Explain that, please. And then please link to a normal game with even-night and odd-night vigs. thanks.

So,

vote: Aegor

Wasn't Aegor the one who pushed through the mislynch on HS?

Want to vote for me it?

VOTE: Wake

[Alina]

Hmm

I have to admit that I thought Reinoe was town. Looking back at his posts isn't very informative in regards to who he may be scum with either.

It's easier to discern players he probably wasn't aligned with, but these are also of limited use as there is still a very clear possibility of multiple scum factions.

The only observation I'd be willing to commit on is that he probably isn't on a team with Wake.

I also kind of think those nightkills make sense if there were two scumteams looking for one another. This would be an opportune time to do so as there are already a lot of townie bodies on the ground.

I agree with...well, all of this. Although I think if they were scumteams looking for eachother there are better targets out there. ALTHOUGH I suppose they could be leaving the obvious ones outside their own faction alive as lynch fodder?

@Adrien What's your hunch regarding SKOT? I'm curious. What do you mean by the way his flip was worded proves there's only one group? I was thinking the opposite. I assume that there are two scum factions and one shot notscience and one shot Reinoe...am I missing something w/the wording?

I think the Mafia designates someone to send to do the kill and they show up as the person visiting. So yes, NM could still easily be scum. He just didn't kill anybody. Unless SKOT and him are scumbuddies and are lying or something.

The quote I said I was gonna come back to about SKOT. Every single PR from the town we have had flip from the town had an even/odd night modifier with it. SKOT's claim, if I recall correctly, was a full tracker claim. That is drawing a red flag on my radar.

Do you have an even/odd night modifier? No need to say which you are, but do you have one?

[TheAdrienC]

Some things I'm noticing on Reinoe's ISO:

1. I dunno if my brain is just noticing this because their alignments are already revealed but he seems to have gone after a lot of our deceased players. Clusk, Hunterseeker, DG/notscience...

2. He seemed to be on Wake's back a lot during the early stages of the game. I'll acknowledge that it could be very skillful distancing but my read on Wake improved a little bit after going through this. Though there is more than one faction doing some killing so we could be looking at just the opposite killer. I doubt Wake was on the same team as Reinoe.

3. My opinion on the Boonksiies part of Aero's analysis is similar to what I said about Wake. It's either skillful distancing, werewolf/SK, or Boon might actually be a good guy.

4. I've kinda given my SKOT opinion already. In fact, I'm actually going to go ahead and

Vote: SKOT

. He had no reason or evidence to defend SKOT and with no real pressure on him (most people, myself included, felt like Reinoe was town most of the game). Was he not expecting to die anytime soon and for us to be sniffing around SKOT. I think the chances of them being buddies is probable.

Does anyone have a link to a game Reinoe has done as scum?

Also, another thought I just had was this gem:
Who would NK a player such as Reinoe who (though he ended up being scum) appeared to be town? I think this is a SK/WW...not a vig.

[Aegor]

We know it is not a Vig since our even-night vig is DEAD.

[TheAdrienC]

Hmm

I have to admit that I thought Reinoe was town. Looking back at his posts isn't very informative in regards to who he may be scum with either.

It's easier to discern players he probably wasn't aligned with, but these are also of limited use as there is still a very clear possibility of multiple scum factions.

The only observation I'd be willing to commit on is that he probably isn't on a team with Wake.

I also kind of think those nightkills make sense if there were two scumteams looking for one another. This would be an opportune time to do so as there are already a lot of townie bodies on the ground.

I agree with...well, all of this. Although I think if they were scumteams looking for eachother there are better targets out there. ALTHOUGH I suppose they could be leaving the obvious ones outside their own faction alive as lynch fodder?

@Adrien What's your hunch regarding SKOT? I'm curious. What do you mean by the way his flip was worded proves there's only one group? I was thinking the opposite. I assume that there are two scum factions and one shot notscience and one shot Reinoe...am I missing something w/the wording?

I think the Mafia designates someone to send to do the kill and they show up as the person visiting. So yes, NM could still easily be scum. He just didn't kill anybody. Unless SKOT and him are scumbuddies and are lying or something.

The quote I said I was gonna come back to about SKOT. Every single PR from the town we have had flip from the town had an even/odd night modifier with it. SKOT's claim, if I recall correctly, was a full tracker claim. That is drawing a red flag on my radar.

Do you have an even/odd night modifier? No need to say which you are, but do you have one?

My hunch is that his claim was a lie. Everyone else was a even/odd doctor or vig...he claimed he was a straight tracker...no odd/even. As for mine, I didn't outright say it in my claim, but I heavily hinted that I was an odd night commuter. I was daring someone to try to NK me on NIGHT ONE before Sally drew out my claim. I'm just as safe tonight. Last night was a chance for someone to get me.

P-Edit: I did not notice that until you said something. We are DEFINITELY dealing with some sort of secondary evil.

[Alina]

Ah, okay. Reinoe's defense of SKOT caught my eye as well on my ISO of them but I thought I might've just been making a bigger deal of it than it deserved. Surprised so many other people are seeing it the way I did. And BOTH night kills last night kind of puzzle me. I can see a scumteam looking for another killing notscience, but I can't figure out why Reinoe died. I guess they could've been utterly terrified of his mad skills or something, I have no idea.

And oh, I thought maybe you were an even night commuter and that's why you brought it up at the end of the day, to dissuade from being NKed or something so you could use your power on night two. There goes that thought. Why did you claim exactly what it was though? Now the scum know when they can kill you, but then again actually, I doubt they would at this point since you're under a lot of suspicion. Nevermind.

I think I brought up the his claim could be a lie because he didn't bring up the odd/even thing yesterday, I'm not sure. Okay, nevermind, I didn't. Just checked. I know I THOUGHT it, at least...

[Alina]

Knowing that someone travelled to nowhere is useful info as well. Or are you claiming role locked. Being coy is not helpful.

you paying attention to the game at all. You should be able to add 1+1...
I did not act on an odd night...

Did you claim even night tracker? I just read a 39 page game, please be forgiving if I missed a detail or two.

nope, why would I claim the limitation on day 1. There is no point to it and if I got heat and the odd night tracker got move off without concern, great. I never said I revealed all...

oh and generally I don't reveal such a limitation or spell it till after fact.

Here's what SKOT said about the matter.

[TheAdrienC]

He could have been back tracking after we saw the odd/even modifier. I did my breadcrumb of my modifier before we even saw any flips.

Long story short: SKOT is the lynch for the day.

[Mirhawk]

Reinoe
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=57502

This game had me, SKOT, and Wake in it as well.

[Mirhawk]

@Adrien
What post did you breadcrumb in?

[TheAdrienC]

Is a lynch on you during this day phase likely? Probably not. And you know what, I hope to GOD you waste your mafia/vig night kill or your inspection or roleblocking or whatever the hell power you have during the night

because if you try that crap on Night 1 with me, you're wasting a night. Did I just breadcrumb my role? I don't even care.

I just want you to get off your high horse and realize "Oh, I might have been wrong" because those are the mafia players who sicken me: those who can't admit they might actually be wrong. It's Day One. We know absolutely nothing at this point unless we have a day inspector which I don't see happening in a normal game.

[TheAdrienC]

That post was made when Salamence was really under my skin and I posted it in frustration.

[Burning_TowN]

I don't like how aero hammered with deadline well off then is now distancing himself greatly from the HS lynch

-B_E