Mini 1592: Flying Aces (Game Over)

[Baezu]

Still not liking marcrell for his latest post. Waiting for farside's analysis and messiahs rebuttals to the accusations against him

[Paschendale]

Does this sound like drpants thinks thor is scum and not town

No, it doesn't. Especially since I made the exact same comments about him earlier, and said it only gave me some suspicions. Pants is clearly not pursuing someone he has an actual scumread on.

Still not liking marcrell for his latest post.

Wanna go into, like, any detail about this?

[Dr Pants]

Pasche, I still would like to know why you have a scum read on me, especially given that:

Pants was establishing how I'm often lynchbait on day 1

you dont seem to have a problem with this, and

Thor is usually more precise than this. Focused aggression is towny, unfocused aggression is not.

you think the person driving the wagon is scummy. Explain please.

Asking you to explain this for the FIFTH time Pasche. FIFTH.

[Dr Pants]

Top quote should say Pasche, not CoolDog

[Dr Pants]

and it should link to here:
229

[Paschendale]

I answered your question about Thor in 419. Didn't you read it?

@Mod: I will be V/LA tomorrow and Wednesday.

[farside22]

@baezu:
My question is in regards to the post here.

Reads list:

Anatole- town. I like your response to people. Just to let you know my town game is scummy. I've tried hydraing to try to fix it and was even given advice like "you can be unpredictable and crazy as fuck as town" but it still hasn't seemed to help. The only thing that "works" for me as town is to stick to my meta and hope people will eventually catch on that I'm scum as fuck as town

Cooldog- most town imo

Dr pants- sorry man. After reading your ISO you still seem scummy to me. You're making a case on jif based on nothing and yet accuse me of the same thing. I don't even like your 206. It just makes you seem like you're fishing for town cred later on

Farside- town meta is town

Majiffy- when I said he was relaxed this is what I meant: 48. IMO whoever thinks majiffy is scum is themselves scum and is just trying to get him out of the game. Read his posts. He's town as fuck 105108

Marcrell- scum. Too much explanation in too scummy of a way. See 236

Messiah- scum, see above. First vote is for majiffy and I already had a problem with his initial post. Also, how come you didn't address me at all in that post and then put me in the scum pile? I was a topic of conversation that you completely ignored but then sided with the majority on.

Pasch- town

Shiryu- town read 150 it's pretty clear

Thor- town

VC- town

Why not- null atm but if there are only 3 scum by Poe he must be town.

;tl/dr messiah, marcrell, pants scum; why not null; rest town

You state a town read in majiffy and say anyone scum reading him is trying to get him out if the game. However both myself and thor stated either suspicion or a scum read on jiffy and we are town reads. Can you expand on why, since your main issue on messiah is his out of the gate scum read on jiffy.

[Dr Pants]

I answered your question about Thor in 419. Didn't you read it?

Thats not the part I care about. I want to know why you think I'm scum.

[farside22]

I'm half way done, will finish tomorrow.
Because I have a tunnel issue that lead me sometimes right and sometimes wrong, I'm going to skip over majiffy for the rest of day 1.

[Thor665]

No, he is intentionally being obtuse, and I surmise it's because he knows I pegged him - Majiffy is scum.

I'm pretty sure you've made a comment about being obstinate not being a scumtell in regards to me.

Are you scum, Thor?

No, I'm not scum.

There is also a difference between obtuse and stubborn - a fairly big one. I think you're being obtuse, not obstinate, that's why I said obtuse. You are being stubborn, but you're also attempting to play in a way to make you hard to read and approach, and I think that's your scum play.

Your counter argument is bad. I said these were not 2 of the most important posts in the game. If I had claimed Day cop then the obviously would have been.


At least I can actually scum hunt. All you are doing is taking posts and spinning narratives from them.

It's a personal attack and it's taking your opinion of the relative value of posts and saying my opinion of the relative value of them is wrong - this is a hollow argument. There is no meat on its bones.

You're also being fairly disingenuous in describing how I'm not giving other reads and then also being forced to admit I am but arguing that they are shallow enough that they don't count.

[Dr Pants]

Name 1 thing that you, individually, have added to this game that does not have to do with me.

[Thor665]

The case on Majiffy.

That was really a hard question.

[/sarcasm]

[Dr Pants]

You're also being fairly disingenuous in describing how I'm not giving other reads and then also being forced to admit I am but arguing that they are shallow enough that they don't count.

Narrative spinning. All you do is narrative spinning.

Spam as many faces as you want. It will not change my role PM to scum. It will not make your crappy argument correct.

You act like you are selling gold, but all you have is a bag of shit and some yellow paint.

[Thor665]

I find it fascinating that you don't understand that another way to describe "narrative spinning" is "offering opinion on seen actions" which is also called "scumhunting"

I also note you dropped the 'other stuff' storyline really quick there.
Good strategic move. It was a fight you'd lose.

[Dr Pants]

I find it fascinating that you don't understand that another way to describe "narrative spinning" is "offering opinion on seen actions" which is also called "scumhunting"

No. the other word for "narrative spinning" is WIFOM. All of your scum reads are based on WIFOM.

Where's the nuance? Where's the ability for you to be right or wrong about your reads?

Answer me this: When you first started voting me, what we're you looking for that would have suggested that I was town?

Also do not make this an ego contest. You will regret it.

[Dr Pants]

The case on Majiffy.

That was really a hard question.

[/sarcasm]

Also this was not something you added to the game. Sorry that I don't give a shit that Majiffy isn't playing to your meta expectations.

[Thor665]

Answer me this: When you first started voting me, what we're you looking for that would have suggested that I was town?

If you had said he was scum in the game history you had with him.

Also, cute, stuff I add doesn't count because...it doesn't fit into your narrative. Scum-scum-scum.

[Thor665]

Actually, it occurs to me that Pants is complaining on one hand that no answer he could have given would have made him look town - ergo I am scum.
At the same time he is claiming I have added nothing to the game...as long as he gets to rule out everything I added to the game.

I can't believe him nor Majiffy has been to L-1 yet. This is obvious stuff.
I'm about to start getting very rude with people unless they at least start saying they expect town to just blatantly act like scum all the time.

[Thor665]

To clarify the above - he is doing exactly what he is accussing me of doing - that means he is fulfilling his own concept of what scum play is.
Hint: there's a reason he considers it scum play.

[Dr Pants]

Answer me this: When you first started voting me, what we're you looking for that would have suggested that I was town?

If you had said he was scum in the game history you had with him.

So, by the time you started voting me, there was nothing I could have said that would have made you change your mind.

Which means, you've wasted your time, my time, and everyone else's time by tunneling me. You have added exactly 1 piece of new "evidence" to your read on me since then, and its that you disliked my prod dodge. So much of this game is me, and you, and its gotten you what? Nothing!

You've admitted it!

Your read of me has been independent of anything I've said or done since the beginning.

At the same time he is claiming I have added nothing to the game...as long as he gets to rule out everything I added to the game.

lets look at "everything you've added to the game":

46 of your 65 posts are directed to me or to others about me. 12 were made before you started voting me.

Since you started voting me, you have only made 7 posts that do not include me. You haven't added shit.

[Thor665]

So, by the time you started voting me, there was nothing I could have said that would have made you change your mind.

If you want to presume I had already done the research and knew what your answer was - then, yeah, sure.

Then again, by the time you're voting someone for something you've seen them do as town - you kinda deserve a vote.

[Dr Pants]

I explained myself on that before. I will not do it again.

Even if you think I deserved a vote, that does not change the fact that your read showed no flexibility. The fact that your mind was set from the beginning makes the tunnel seem fake, and like a way for you to look town. Additionally, the fact that I happen to be the least or one of the least experienced players here supports that idea.

My turn to WIFOM: Thor is scum. Being a good player, Thor plays scum by playing a "town" game. Doing so means capitalizing on mistakes that town makes, to give the appearance of scum hunting. A relatively new player says something that catches Thor's eye. So scum Thor capitalizes on this. Knowing that I would be unlikely able to answer his questions perfectly, he is free to tunnel away at me and keep getting new things to accuse me of. The difference between scum Thor, and town Thor, is that town Thor would be looking for scum everywhere. Town Thor would be somewhat more willing to accept he could be wrong about a read. Scum Thor knows that by keeping his foot on the gas he places pressure on a player who might not be able to handle it properly.

Hows that, am I close?

[Baezu]

@farside I really meant that mostly for messiah, not really you or Thor. I also wanted to throw that out there so that we can all be aware of that reason as well

[Baezu]

Pasch:

Could everyone please lay out their current reads? I think too many people are getting caught up in minutia. Jiffy, top 3 scum. Farside - same. If we all agree that marcrell is super scum, great.

But there's got to be other people that are being scummy for non-fabricated reasons.

Who are those people? I'm still not convinced dr pants is town soy reads list is still accurate up until this point

The bolded portion sounds strange to me. It implies that the people who are scum in this posts have fabricated reasons, implying that the reads are made up. I was unsure, but looking over this post has me leaning a bit more towards Baezu scum. I won't vote though until I see an explanation. Perhaps there's something explaining this.
And I have returned. I tried to use something more recent, but a lot of it was back and forth between people that I found hard to take an opinion on, so I have given this.
Also seeing a point from Thor now. I did expect questions from the content pants read, not the content he predicted to read.

It just feels like he's trying to slowly draw out an argument to give himself a legitimate reason to vote me. It just seems so fabricated and stretched thin.

[Shiryu]

Damn it, went through a whole iso of Thor, Majiffy and Pants and... I got a lot less thatn I would have expected from it, honestly. Probably should have done it before it got this late for me. The one thing that really puts higher on my scum list, Pants, is that one post about having caught up and coming back with questions. Yeah, technically the wording would technically allow said quesions to be about future posts, but way you posted it just sounded like you meant from what you had read up that point, with no room for doubt.

@Pash: However, it really has been bugging me how much you've avoided answering his question about why you think Pants to be scum. As scummy as he has looked, at no point in any of your posts have you made any mention of why you personally think he's scummy, not even when he's started repeating the same question over and over again. Why is this?