NY175: Sycamore Scuffle

[Aegor]

@Alina:

Thanks for the write-up. I read every word, so you can rest assured that it was not in vain.

First,

VOTE: BP

Spoiler: Reasons

However, I feel other people are better candidates to lynch, namely Wake, Clusk (even though I do agree with Adrien we should hear from his replacement first) and Scarab.

Disclaimer: I am willing to join any wagon to lynch any of these three.

OK. So.

Despite my 802... errr... I...

Vote: Clusk92

Reason: lets makes some flips happen

This. This happened.

After all the heat, after everything, after all the posts, reads, evaluations, opinions, fights, reviews, ISO's... That's what Lurker has to offer.

VOTE: HunterSeeker.

I don't even care anymore.

My least favourite player of the active ones is Wake. Then Scarab. But HS just blows up the scale. Also, let's give Clusk's replacement a chance. I didn't like Clusk much

, but there is a slight possibility this game just upset him or wtv.

After all, the point of the post was to say that I will be voting HS rather than you

, but making a point of keeping an eye on you.

It does not look that much

scummier

than HS to me, no.

I agree

, but only after HunterLurker's latest post.

She's right.

I think Hunter is just bad, bad town

- even worse than me, Wake! - and given that three people have already died, then

I don't want to lynch another town

.

I don't like his short posts that he seems to have designed just to go off everyone's radar, with his very short comments on current discussion. I am still on page 48, so I don't know if he has posted yet. I will give a more detailed opinion once I check that out. In the meantime, let it suffice to say that I think

HS is still much worse

, because of his vote on Day 1 with no context, complete lack of reads and opinions, and just troll lurking the thread, and then posting very weird defensive statements as soon as day rose again. But again: will re evaluate.

I hate being on a different time zone than most people. Usually my posts are follow-up because people are online when I'm fast asleep. Oh well, thus is life.

Oh, btw, current scum list:
> Scarab
> Wake

Town

> Aegor

> Alina
> Boon

I think that argument is town on town.

WAKE WAKE WAKE WAKE

I am pretty damn sure the HS wagon is another scum-motivated one

. There is nothing to them other than not voting. I've said this before: they are policy lynches and policy lynches are bad for town because we decrease in number. That can't be.

What you say makes sense, Aegor. But it HS flips town, I'm coming after you.

[Aegor]

If any more reasons are needed, one need only look at BP's ISO and his three main targets: Wake, Scarab, Clusk. Then look at how much pressure said players have received from BP today.

[TheAdrienC]

And with that naked vote, my vote stands.

[Aegor]

I would gladly lynch SKOT as well.

[Alina]

Alina - Leaning town, though this is subject to change. She has my suspicions raised a little bit, but since I can't place my finger on why yet keeping her as a town read. She has a lot of posts, but most of them are one or two lines at most.

lol, I just post whenever I see something I feel like replying to. I considered waiting to try and condense my posts more but I decided against it as there wouldn't really be much point and just asking when I see stuff gets information out there faster. Sorry if that choice bothers anyone, lol.

vote areonaut

Who? But no, seriously, why?

@

Aegor

I think BP flipped on you in #1534 (I think this is the right number) and explained his reasoning, but eh. I think his lack of posting may be he just doesn't have time, but I honestly think I'm okay with lynching him at this point. I want him to at least respond to my writeup first though.

PEDIT: Me too.

[Juls]

I'm not caught up, will likely be tomorrow before I can do anything substantial.

[BP]

Hi guys.

So, my vote is not naked, given that I have explained my reasons prior to the vote. I don't need to repeat myself, or I shouldn't, at the very least.

Why am I scum all of a sudden? Because I didn't fall for the lynch-the-lurk theory that has gotten hold of this game? I said lynching Clusk before his replacement arrived. Nobody listed and dead town. Same thing for HS. I NEVER claimed I thought he was town, I just didn't feel the need to me one real bad. It wouldn't "feel soooooooo good" to BP.

Aegor. Were you pressuring me because I was lurking? Was I yet another easy target? Because screw you. Your post is bad and you know it. You have me look like I'm contradicting myself, but I think it's fairly cool I have different opinions when 500 distance two posts of mine.


Also, yes, I got slammed and thank god night was extended, because still no computer.

[BP]

* I said lynching Clusk before his replacement arrived was a bad idea.

[Aegor]

Aegor. Were you pressuring me because I was lurking? Was I yet another easy target? Because screw you. Your post is bad and you know it. You have me look like I'm contradicting myself, but I think it's fairly cool I have different opinions when 500 distance two posts of mine.

You are more than welcome to explain your 180 on the HS lynch at your convenience by posting the relevant posts from your ISO that I missed, if such exist.

You are also more than welcome to explain your selective endorsement of policy lynches, as described in Alina's post, again, at your convenience.

[BP]

I probably will. Just don't rush to lynch this time, hmmkay?

[BP]

Fuck. I had posted saying I'll be back in business Friday the latest. Anywho.

[shaddowez]

I probably will. Just don't rush to lynch this time, hmmkay?

Assuming this was aimed at Aegor, could you explain this as Aegor wasn't actually the hammer on either lynch?

[TheAdrienC]

I'm going over SKOT's ISO and I know a lot of people have been attributing his (what I think is) scummy play to his play style from playing on another site but here's a quick summary of his posts.

On post 152, he says he will hammer Wake if he is at L-1 and in the same post, mentions he doesn't think Wake is scum. On 158, he tries to defend it by saying he's from another site and that's just how he plays. 162, he criticizes shadow for calling out Wake's hypocrisy like a lot of us were. 163, OMGUS vote on Aegor after he called for SKOT to be PL and then calls Aegor a bully. Oh and he called Aegor town in the exact same post. On post 170, he criticizes Aegor for his aggressive play (who else was criticized at this point for having an overly aggressive play style?). 181, he defends his aggressive style to me once more (noticing a pattern yet?). 197, congrats, he doesn't have any reads. 319, randomly and unexplainable votes for now-confirmed town, Salamence. 336, claims tracker. Not even/odd tracker. Just tracker. Next few posts were justifying why he claimed. He votes for scarab on post 452, not sure why because he never explains it. 715, he demands Cabd gives a reason why Salamence pressured me into claiming. 889, he votes Clusk, who ends up being a lynched VT.

First D2 post (986) was a vote for me after Juls and NM throw one on me. And says he didn't get any information from N1, not necessarily saying he "couldn't track anyone". 1007, he unvotes. 1011, complains about this site's meta. 1014, calls Juls a bully for pushing a HS lynch. 1015, hints he is an even night tracker after the even-night vig (Cabd) and odd-night doctor (farside) flipped. 1019-1027, whiteknighting alert? 1118, THEN VOTES FOR THE GUY HE WAS DEFENDING. Posts mostly uninteresting, responsive posts after that, most interesting of which is prodding Aegor once more and saying he could get on board with lynching Boon.

Day 3, post 1848, gives his result on NotMafia, deciding to track someone who was a consensus town player. 1884, he claims he chose him because of vote placement. Defends his claim then a naked vote on Aero.

What I haven't seen: Him making any effort whatsoever to find scum and the fact he hasn't been NK'd after claiming an investigative PR.

My vote remains. SKOT is the smart lynch for the day.

[Alina]

I'm seriously not F5ing the thread all day, I swear...even though I saw Adrien's post two minutes after it was posted.

I totally agree, Adrien. SKOT hasn't done

anything

since claiming. I think I've brought this up before that it seems like he's not doing anything because he's scum and thinks he's "safe" now and is just trying to keep attention off him again. He was really uber-active at the start...as soon as he claims? Boom. Nothing. He vanished like the avatar. This isn't the

only

thing I don't like, but it's a pretty major part of it. I'll switch my vote to him.

VOTE: Sharpest-Knife-On-Tree

[Aeronaut]

vote areonaut

FOS:SKOT

I probably will. Just don't rush to lynch this time, hmmkay?

Assuming this was aimed at Aegor, could you explain this as Aegor wasn't actually the hammer on either lynch?

I think he was talking about everyone in general, since the lynches this game seem to escalate quickly.

So... not sure what the naked vote is about. I've given my reasons for wanting to vote SKOT in the past, and that vote just seems sort of stupid. Opportunistic. etc. As I've also said in the past, randomly pointing fingers instead of giving reasons doesn't help anybody. Also, at least have the decency to spell my name right.

Alina, I haven't read the writeups yet but I'm going to sit down with some tea and give it a go.

P-edit @Alina haha yea sometimes I refresh the page for longer than I'd like to admit

[TheAdrienC]

Aero...this is the lynch. Put your vote on it. You know this guy needs to be strung up.

[Alina]

P-edit @Alina haha yea sometimes I refresh the page for longer than I'd like to admit

I'm not though I just have a magic psychic ray that makes me check the thread right after people post evidently.

[Alina]

Oh yeah.

@

Aegor

What were your reasonings for suspecting Burning_TowN?

[Burning_TowN]

tn5421, in #210, you single out Reinoe to post more, but IIRC there were quite a few people who didn't post yet? I'm a bit too lazy to go through and check what exactly the post counts were at that point, but was there any reason in particular that you chose to single them out? Also, B_E, why did you not like that vote, exactly?

I've played with reinoe before and know he needs the reminder.

I'm going over SKOT's ISO and I know a lot of people have been attributing his (what I think is) scummy play to his play style from playing on another site but here's a quick summary of his posts.

On post 152, he says he will hammer Wake if he is at L-1 and in the same post, mentions he doesn't think Wake is scum. On 158, he tries to defend it by saying he's from another site and that's just how he plays. 162, he criticizes shadow for calling out Wake's hypocrisy like a lot of us were. 163, OMGUS vote on Aegor after he called for SKOT to be PL and then calls Aegor a bully. Oh and he called Aegor town in the exact same post. On post 170, he criticizes Aegor for his aggressive play (who else was criticized at this point for having an overly aggressive play style?). 181, he defends his aggressive style to me once more (noticing a pattern yet?). 197, congrats, he doesn't have any reads. 319, randomly and unexplainable votes for now-confirmed town, Salamence. 336, claims tracker. Not even/odd tracker. Just tracker. Next few posts were justifying why he claimed. He votes for scarab on post 452, not sure why because he never explains it. 715, he demands Cabd gives a reason why Salamence pressured me into claiming. 889, he votes Clusk, who ends up being a lynched VT.

First D2 post (986) was a vote for me after Juls and NM throw one on me. And says he didn't get any information from N1, not necessarily saying he "couldn't track anyone". 1007, he unvotes. 1011, complains about this site's meta. 1014, calls Juls a bully for pushing a HS lynch. 1015, hints he is an even night tracker after the even-night vig (Cabd) and odd-night doctor (farside) flipped. 1019-1027, whiteknighting alert? 1118, THEN VOTES FOR THE GUY HE WAS DEFENDING. Posts mostly uninteresting, responsive posts after that, most interesting of which is prodding Aegor once more and saying he could get on board with lynching Boon.

Day 3, post 1848, gives his result on NotMafia, deciding to track someone who was a consensus town player. 1884, he claims he chose him because of vote placement. Defends his claim then a naked vote on Aero.

What I haven't seen: Him making any effort whatsoever to find scum and the fact he hasn't been NK'd after claiming an investigative PR.

My vote remains. SKOT is the smart lynch for the day.

I am in favor of this, although I'll wait for my other head's opinion.

~tn5421

[Mirhawk]

Interesting points on SKOT, not going to commit on that till I have an opportunity to go back and reread as I don't really remember a lot of that stuff very well.
Also going to check if Reinoe is prone to defending teammates, I can't recall if he directly intervened on Chaoslord or JoshB's behalves in our last game.

Decision to track NM is what stands out to me. If the track was about vote placement, then what was it about his vote placement that made him the choice.

[Aeronaut]

Interesting points on SKOT, not going to commit on that till I have an opportunity to go back and reread as I don't really remember a lot of that stuff very well.
Also going to check if Reinoe is prone to defending teammates, I can't recall if he directly intervened on Chaoslord or JoshB's behalves in our last game.

Decision to track NM is what stands out to me. If the track was about vote placement, then what was it about his vote placement that made him the choice.

Yea, I was wondering why he would pick NM to track instead of someone like Aegor who he was pretty vocal about hating, or Salamence/CABD who he also really wanted lynched, but who incidentally died instead... NM seemed pretty townish D1/2 I believe, and I don't think SKOT had any reservations about him IIRC

Reading through his ISO, I see quite a bit of defending his play by saying it's because of "where I came from" and whatnot. He basically wanted Wake run up to L-1, so then he said that he would state intent to hammer on Wake. He claimed it was so that Wake would claim, and that's just the way he played, but I dunno... Seems like an awfully easy way to get somebody quicklynched.

Moving on, he passes off almost every single comment against him as "Harping on Shit" which I guess just magically makes it irrelevant. Sorry, SKOT, but no. Aegor continues to question him, and SKOT proceeds to effectively ignore Aegor's questioning by calling it bully-sticking. I didn't read what Aegor was saying as really aggressive or hostile, and in no way was it "bully sticking." So in that regard, SKOT is still giving as little information as possible.

Then, Salamence makes him claim. This part makes zero sense to me. None. SKOT had spent 23 posts telling us that when you get run up to L-1, then, and only then, you claim. And guess what happened in post 24? He clams. He was like L-9. News for ya buddy, that's not L-1.

SKOT goes on to claim that it was because he was angry and frustrated and that's why he claimed. That's sort of a valid reason, but wait... didn't he just spend 30 posts telling us that he's been playing Mafia for over ten years at a different place, and that's why he's playing so differently than the rest of us? Wouldn't someone who's been playing this game for ten years be a bit used to the emotions it derives, and be able to deal with them instead of claiming D1 for no reason?

People strongly question his wicked early claim (for good reason), and he immediately goes back on it saying how poorly executed and dumb it was to do. Wishy washy. Timey Wimey.

Aegor tells him he is playing poorly. SKOT votes for Aegor..... and

then calls Aegor town

....

In the same sentence

..... ugh who is this guy. And nope, it's not a policy lynch either... here's the real reasoning.

@skot, why are you voting aegor?

because He pissed me off and I wanted to slap him in the face.

The rest of the game is SKOT doing a whole lot of nothing besides short little sentences of agreement. Also, funny thing, almost every single vote he's ever done, is actually a naked vote. However, he covers it up by commenting on something completely unrelated, and then voting offhandedly.

Guess he just got lazy with me.

SKOT, I'm glad you decided to naked vote, because I never realized how fucking obvious this was. Have a nice day.


VOTE: SKOT

[Aegor]

Oh yeah.

@

Aegor

What were your reasonings for suspecting Burning_TowN?

VOTE: SKOT

[Aegor]

@SKOT

: Please explain NM choice.

[Aegor]

Oh, and about Burning: I was conflating him to some extent with BP in my mind. Reviewing his ISO, nullish.

[shaddowez]

So, I've been doing more rereads, and went through my own reads list again. I must have been more exhausted than I realized because some of them don't even make sense to myself at this point. Some of the changes are due to stuff that's happened since, but a lot of them are just from stuff I missed last night. Most of my reads I'm leaving where they are, but here are a couple of changes:

Alina - Leaning heavier town again. While there

is

still something that I can't place my finger on, she is still digging for motivation and looking at interactions between other players.

Boon - Changing to a null/scum read. Unlike Alina, ever since his scumread on her and their lover's quarrel, he's been focusing on pretty much nobody but her. He's commented on a few other people, but they were based off of Alina's posts, not his own inquiries or observations.

Adrien - I really like his Post #2037. I don't like that it seems he basically took my read on him and ran with it (I know others have said similar things too, I'm just using mine since it was the most recent). He never even acknowledged my read, and his next post with actual content appears to be scumhunting (There was one post about his vote standing because of SKOT's naked vote before this one). However, he's also been anti-SKOT for a decent part of the game, so this could be bussing.

SKOT - This is my biggest change, and is based both on rereads and posts since my reads. I'm definitely beginning to lean scum on him now.

162, he criticizes shadow for calling out Wake's hypocrisy like a lot of us were.

I had noticed this when it first happened, but had forgotten about it. A lot of his earlier stuff I actually stopped paying attention to with the whole debate, which is bad on me. He started in early with the hammer nonsense, which is a good way to set up the defense for hammering on mislynches.

During the Aegor policy lynch BS, he (on mulitple occasions) says matter-of-factly that a policy lynch is playing against Aegor's win condition. In a game where phrasing matters, that sounds like SKOT may know who is in his faction and Aegor isn't.

Multiple naked votes, starting with Salamence on Day 1...things just aren't adding up to town motivation.

I'm comfortable moving my vote. VOTE: SKOT