A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Throne Books. Spoilers)

[zoraster]

also, the new brienn hound fight may have been more fun than the one i had been looking forward to all season.

[Oversoul]

In A Storm of Swords (page 249 in my book), this old dwarf crone on High Heart has three dreams. One about a shadow with a burning heart killing a stag (Renly), one about a man without a face and his drowned crow, and one about a dead fish lady (Catelyn). What is the second dream about? A Greyjoy right, so "Reek"?

[Sudo_Nym]

I would guess the second one was about the Faceless Man who killed Balon Greyjoy.

[Aegor]

Yep.

[ChannelDelibird]

Season 5 cast additions announced!

I'm torn. The ones they've announced (Siddig! Pryce! Castle-Hughes!) are all fantastic and I'm really excited to see them ... but, if as looks increasingly likely, season 5 is going to be a version of the story with no Arianne and no Greyjoy uncles, I feel more and more like I want to get GRRM's full vision first. But... but...

[xRECKONERx]

[Seacore]

Oh my god Pryce! Yes!

[Iecerint]

I'm super bummed about the apparent decision to axe Arianne.

[Iecerint]

I suspect the Greyjoy stuff will just come up in a separate announcement, though? Unless you think they're saving that for Season 6.

[Iecerint]

I mean, why exactly did we need Areo? :/

[Seacore]

That looks a lot like the cast from Feast, rather than a cast from Dance. So maybe we will see more Greyjoys in Season 6, after Dorne fades a little from relevancy. I thought they'd probably combine them and do a more chronological approach, but that's a massive cast to fit into 10 episodes.

I think Arianne was simply a vehicle in the books for us to understand Doran's rage and the Dorne loyalty. She may not have a further purpose and thus could be left out of the show.

[Iecerint]

We already know she has at least one chapter in Winds of Winter.

[Iecerint]

I also like her as a way to emphasize the gender-neutral inheritance tradition without having to talk about it explicitly.

[Seacore]

But they'd need to talk about it explicitly anyway.

I'm not saying she's not important to the book, but looking at the characters and arcs that have been left out so far, I'm not shocked by her absence.

[AniX]

The big thing I see of her exclusion is it severely challenges the notion that Dorne will join with Young Griff.

[RichardGHP]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment ... d=11300939

Honestly...

[Iecerint]

To be honest, it kind of does fit a pattern of problematic depictions of women on the show (cf., season 4 rape controversy).

[Seacore]

There are differences between problematic depictions of women, which shows to a large degree that the 'setting' is not very friendly to women, and the show hating women by leaving out or reducing strong roles for them, ie Stoneheart and Arianne.

There's an argument to be made about why the setting hates women, and on one side it's the brutal and patriarchal times and culture, but on the other hand there's still a writer at the other end of it.
As for the roles for women, you could argue that both Gilly and Ygritte got much more screen time than the book demanded.

Also, I wouldn't be that surprised if there is no Young Griff in the show.

[quadz08]

That would be quite the departure.

[Aegor]

People complain about everything. Why watch the show if one is so angry? Those going in with any specific expectations were just setting themselves up for disappointment.

Get the eff over it.

[AniX]

People complain about everything. Why post in a thread about the discussion of the book-to-show adaptation if one is so angry? Those going in with any specific limitations on what people will post were just setting themselves up for disappointment.

Get the eff over it.

[Tierce]

How

dare

people complain about legitimate issues of representation in material they love. How dare they intrude in the enjoyment of people who never have to worry about being able to relate to characters in the books/movies/TV series they like. Must be a terrible burden that is being imposed on those who would otherwise not give a fuck, being

forced

to read about issues of representation and diversity on the internet.

Exodus: Gods and Kings

's cast is not problematic either, without a doubt, why are people complaining about it!

Radical thought: it's possible to like something and also have issues with some aspects of the work/author/creator and

point them out

.


...Naaaah. Better to gobble it up and just 'deal' with whitewashing and off-story sexism in silence, because that's what good mindless fans do. Better to never make public that you're uncomfortable with it, because

how dare you be uncomfortable just deal with it

.

[quadz08]

*shruggles* I will withhold judgement until I actually watch the damn thing

[Rhinox]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment ... d=11300939

Honestly...

To be honest, it kind of does fit a pattern of problematic depictions of women on the show (cf., season 4 rape controversy).

There are differences between problematic depictions of women, which shows to a large degree that the 'setting' is not very friendly to women, and the show hating women by leaving out or reducing strong roles for them, ie Stoneheart and Arianne.

There's an argument to be made about why the setting hates women, and on one side it's the brutal and patriarchal times and culture, but on the other hand there's still a writer at the other end of it.
As for the roles for women, you could argue that both Gilly and Ygritte got much more screen time than the book demanded.

Also, I wouldn't be that surprised if there is no Young Griff in the show.

I think that article is frankly ridiculous. Omitting a character does not mean the show hates women. There are many strong women characters in the show despite the brutal patriarchal setting (Dany, Cersei, Brienne, Yara/Asha, Arya, Sansa, Catelyn, Margaery, Melisandre, etc) and a host of other minor female characters that are/were depicted strongly. Omitting a female character does not mean the show hates women and seek to minimize their role in the show. In many ways, it is the women of westeros that drive the whole story, and the show writers seem fully aware of that with their execution of the material. This is really a non-issue.

[Tierce]

Rhinox: why is your focus immediately on the "Game of Thrones hates women" line instead of on the fact that

Arianne is an important element that shows that Dorne does not follow the same patriarchal notions that the rest of Westeros does

? A woman who enjoys sexual freedom and is going to inherit Dorne in her own name is important. (For the most part; there's still a lot of bullshit, but a lot

less

than in the other kingdoms.)

It's a bit difficult to read deeper into the article when you can just gloss over it thanks to a sensationalist opening statement. Okay, so let's dive into your other point.

"The show already has strong female characters." True, it does. But that's not an excuse, because it shouldn't be a selling point to have strong female characters in your show. They're there. In the books and everywhere. Yeah, it's nice to see them, but the show doesn't get brownie points for one, being true to the source material, and two, treating women like people who exist and make up half of the population. Because if you're that reasoning as a counterpoint to the article, I can also point out that GoT has a lot of pointless

female

eye candy.
The show just so happened to remove one female character with true independence

and

make the Sand Snakes all look similar (because ~reasons~, I imagine; that's a whole different gripe). As far as we know, either way--I still hold out hope against hope that they will include Arianne, the Targaryen motto scene isn't the same thing if said to one of the Martell boys.

You saying that it "is really a non-issue" when it's a matter that clearly doesn't bother you but rightfully bothers others... ehhh. Perhaps you should ignore the sensationalism and try to understand why it bothers some fans before shrugging it off. It might not bother you, but it's not a non-issue that a vital female character (and yes, there's a lot of importance on the fact that she is a woman) may have been pulled. Nobody is griping about the littlest Sand Snakes and I don't give a damn about Margaery's cousins or Taena Merryweather (though it would be nice to have a WoC, if I remember Taena correctly). Arianne

is

important and her potential absence is bothersome because it silences what little there is about society-supported gender freedom in Westeros.

I didn't even much like her chapters outside the stuff with Doran, goddammit. But I want my Dornish princess.