Mini 1591: PFs Flavorless Normal (Game Over)

[farside22]

So he said it wasn't serious which implies reaction test. Protown

Lurking/ replacing is null, though if this really is 20 pages of fighting I don't blame anyone for replacing out.

The part about Drew I got nothing for you but I'll say null.

Seems like a policy lynch vote personally.

Can I hear your reasons why red/ cool are scummy?

Thanks.

oh boy this is not going to be a fun game is it?

Page 2

Spoiler:

personally don't like SK's vote on farside in post 26, he basically votes her for not trying to get the game out of rvs but imo the game has to progress naturally

farside's response back looks good.

don't really like SK's response to reinoe's reasonless vote. imo that vote shouldn't matter to him if he is town.

Drew's post 37 is actually a good post because SK isn't a new player. I don't understand what "on the spectrum" means

post 38 - so reinoe's vote wasn't actually serious?

post 42 - HH has been a bad and good guy

post 47 - SK is right, reinoe is trying to keep the game in RVS

Page 3

Spoiler:

Don't really like Dess's entrance, sure it was a joke but looks a little misogynistic to me.

not really liking farside's vote on my slot, that looked like a reactionary vote like I have seen other players do.

I don't agree with pop's assessment of konowa's vote. he talks about motive but he has no idea what konowa's motive was as no motive was given. To me it looked like something I would do, bandwagon vote for reactions. The only thing I wished konowa would have done is vote farside instead of drew. That is what I would have done.

Page 4

Spoiler:

this entire page made me bang my head against the desk. I have to get back to work but if this game is 18 pages of sk/reinoe fighting, i'm going to lose my motivation real fast. regardless of the alignment of you two, these kind of back and forth arguments that take over the entire game only hurt town's chances at winning because it allows the other scum to hang in the background.

I will try and read more at lunch.

Reaction test scummy or town? I can't say between your defense of those actions and what you wrote in the spoiler which.

[farside22]

Also I promise to get a case tonight about rc/ cd.

That take more then the few minutes I can sneak at work to do right now.

[Beck]

So he said it wasn't serious which implies reaction test. Protown

To me it looked like something I would do, bandwagon vote for reactions. The only thing I wished konowa would have done is vote farside instead of drew. That is what I would have done.

not sure where you are confused farside, i call 1 pro town and then the other I say that is something I would do aka protown

so they both imply protown behaviour. the ONLY thing I would have done differently was vote you not drew.

[farside22]

So he said it wasn't serious which implies reaction test. Protown

To me it looked like something I would do, bandwagon vote for reactions. The only thing I wished konowa would have done is vote farside instead of drew. That is what I would have done.

not sure where you are confused farside, i call 1 pro town and then the other I say that is something I would do aka protown

so they both imply protown behaviour. the ONLY thing I would have done differently was vote you not drew.

Sorry I saw don't like the vote and would vote back as something you see scummy.
My selective reading is my worst quality,

[farside22]

Okay my confusion is cleared.
Reactionary vote and reaction vote? Is there a difference?

[Beck]

Yeah my typing was messed to there. I was trying to say that the vote was trying to get reactions. I suck at English / grammar

[farside22]

Yeah my typing was messed to there. I was trying to say that the vote was trying to get reactions. I suck at English / grammar

Oh joy. This game will be full of bad grAmmar and spelling and it will not be just me!

I'm going to do something crazy

VOTE: RC

That can sit till tonight case.

[Beck]

Page 5

Spoiler:

Why is everyone ignoring my case on Konowa? His reaction was "sounds about right".

IAI vote Konowa for me so I can get more attention

technically he said you were right about not having conviction behind his reinoe vote. he didn't agree with anything else. I think people ignored your case because it wasn't very good :shrug:

Even if I do buy it, skimming thread is correlated with a scum alignment, so that's no salvation

false

page 5 gives me good vibes from Cyberbob, he seems to be trying to get people to post more and comment on stuff that isn't reinoe/sk


I sure hope all of CoolDog's posts are these wall type posts with multiple quotes. they suck

Scum tend to be less motivated and to be having less fun, as a rule. That means they are less likely to read the thread, much like you are less likely to read every word of a boring text than of a good novel.

That's for the average person, it might not apply to you. Maybe you like playing scum, or you read everything either way but have a meticulous attitude as scum.


Goofyd00d does give me a vague scum vibe, but Konowa has a better feel for me.

I don't think you can generalize all scum like that as I have seen scum very interested/motivated.

Page 6

Spoiler:

I agree with SK's 131 - this game doesn't look like it is very much fun so far.

multiple quotes of a matrix photo really?

Don't like goofy's posts at all, he's being standoffish when he doesn't need to be.

This would be a good time to post this link - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21886

This thread doesn't apply to newbies, but all players actually and is kind of what I am following.

This quote is specifically good

+ Be civil. Mafia players are human, and all else being equal they'd rather get rid of the guy who thinks they're a bunch of retards who dribble over their keyboards than someone who disagrees with them, but can see where they're coming from.*

[popsofctown]

When I read Beck post "If this game is 18 pages of reinoe and SK fighting I'm going to lose motivation", it resonated a little bit. I've had trouble digging into this game, and that's a big part of why. The spat between the two of them has gone a long, long, time. I've seen pretty big town on town spats. But I've never seen such a protracted one of this, that goes on and on.

At first I thought neither was scum, but the amount of filth they have filled the thread with has left me doubtful. There'd be more mutual interest in letting things drop for a moment for the good of the town.

I've had a gut town read on reinoe for a long time due to his carefree nature, but a null read on sleepy. Belligerence is cloudy to me. My gut doesn't tell me much about him, but my head realizes that there is a defensive component to his nagging, repetitive, cyclical desire to be right and to be identified as the "victor" of the engagement with reinoe, which has survivalist qualities to it. Reinoe doesn't seem to care as much, at least to me.

Vote: SleepyKrew

[reinoe]

Also Goofy, no question is too inane in mafia - there is always something that can be read into either the substance or the demeanour of an answer.

I disagree. As I said at the beginning, RQS is pretty useless. There are certainly useless questions in mafia. I probably ask a lot of them. This one does not seem useless to me because Goofy is trying so hard to avoid it.

Skrew, share your thoughts on post 515 and 535.

I didn't respond to them because they are dumb and wrong and I'm not going to waste the time or effort unless someone besides you asks me to.
Now about your RC read

Once upon a time Cyberbob felt that "no question is too inane in mafia". Sleepykrew started scumreading Goofydood for not answering questions. It'll be interesting to see how Cyberbob comments on this interaction: both on SleepyKrew mounting list of doublestandards, and how Sleepy's "substance and demeanor" on how he has decided to respond.

[reinoe]

***and on the "substance and demeanor" on how how Sleepy has decided to respond.***

[Dessew]

Everyone forgets about Goofy. I'll do this in the next post (in an hour or so.)
I still think that SK v reinoe is TvT.
Replacing is not scummy, let us not be ridiculous.
Beck: that role was used in math camps, in open setups, so it actually was keeping girls in the game. Actually, it was the exact intent of creating such role.
In the meanwhile, I'm very much interested in Beck's catch-up posts.
Do you know the feeling when you really want to ask someone something but it'd be anti-town af? (rhetorical question)

[farside22]

Everyone forgets about Goofy. I'll do this in the next post (in an hour or so.)
I still think that SK v reinoe is TvT.
Replacing is not scummy, let us not be ridiculous.
Beck: that role was used in math camps, in open setups, so it actually was keeping girls in the game. Actually, it was the exact intent of creating such role.
In the meanwhile, I'm very much interested in Beck's catch-up posts.
Do you know the feeling when you really want to ask someone something but it'd be anti-town af? (rhetorical question)

Sometimes I still ask and don't care and sometimes I don't. Depends if I really want an awnser.

I agree the argument between the two read tvt.

Getting out of work in minus 3 hours. God I hate work. Sorry I need to gripe somewhere.

[Beck]

I'm doing my best to catchup, hopefully I will be caught up soon. I realize I can't comment on everything I want to or that will fill another 2 pages so I will try to respond to what I feel is pertinent.

and even though it's a rhetorical question, a townie should never be afraid to do anything based on how they would be perceived

[farside22]

I'm doing my best to catchup, hopefully I will be caught up soon. I realize I can't comment on everything I want to or that will fill another 2 pages so I will try to respond to what I feel is pertinent.

and even though it's a rhetorical question, a townie should never be afraid to do anything based on how they would be perceived

The mod lynch mentality I've noticed being really bad, worse then I remember, typically keeps some questions I have at bay. When I mean bad it's holy crap lynch anti-town question and don't think or ask anything about it.
That's why I made my crack handed out or brains reduced to mush comment.

[Beck]

I don't even know what an anti- town question is. I guess if I see one I will lol

[Dessew]

Spoiler: The Horror (the worst part is that I'm not even sure if it's relevant)

RVS, I chose you because I really am exhausted, got called in for a morning shift around midnight and it fit for randoms, your serious response is good info though.

While Dessew started out sheeping (admittedly) he has provided a decent amount of content and questions. Putting your thoughts with real reasoning behind them is strong town to me.

The only remark I have to make is that Des calls SK town because of past play of a similar start. Its a bad way to clear someone and build a read, it should be a supplement and not a main reason.

Dess is town.

Phoneposting, so just addressing some stuff I can recall.
SK: you said your push on farside hadn't been serious. What on Earth did you expect, not to be called out?
Konowa: if I was damage controlling, I'd be doing a really bad job, I mean, read again, maybe?
Whoever asked why pops is town: their actions show town motivation and no scum motivation. I'll do a post with quotes tomorrow.
Goofy: I've had a very long conversation in my head with many obnoxious players and other people from my life while walking back and forth in the flat (which makes the cat extremally annoyed) and drinking like one and a half litres of water all thanks to your incompetence. Answer the questions. You're withholding information, or at least that's what you claim. Here's what I want you to do: 1. Find some catalogue of BS (a Coelho generator or whatever) and post it labelled as 'answer to SK's RVS question'. 2. Tell us what SK's posts during the RVS told you about his alignment. I need your thoughts from exactly that point of time, use only the posts from that time. I personally honestly mistrust your capabilities of understanding what I mean by the things said above, partly because of my past experiences, but do what you can, please. In the meantime, I might be just oversensitive because I had to explain someone that things imply themselves, but I'm seriously contemplating a PL on you right now. Jsyk.
Drew: I'd like to hear how I'm '... interesting.'

Des, his reaction read scummy from him trying so hard to find someone to single out quickly, but rather than push that I was horrible scum immediately he went with "just answer the question" which read more like anyone who wanted to get the game rolling fast and have fun. Like I said someone else answered that particular question.

I would like you to explain why you provided nothing but questions with your comment when it was your first one in 24 hours. Did you gather nothing to share since then? Even with my posts during that period you are still on this?

Please stop pluralizing questions, that is the only one that I know of.

Also if not providing basic game theory in a non noob game qualifies as a PL from you, well, that's just sad dude.

A case on town-pops with quotes would have ended up quoting all his posts with more than two lines, so here I go with no quotes. That sentence was the title of a spoiler, but I don't even need to spoiler it. Pops is town because he's actively trying to move the game further. His posts are overall collected and they have a purpose. Example: his stance on the reinoe-SK debate. The whole thing became a mere penis measurement competition, imo, I mean the only actual substance that could be sqeezed out of it appeared just recently. (Reinoe, you should really explain how we were supposed to find out whom you're scumreading from those lists.) Instead of this he actively tried to change the conversation to 'a lynch with strong merits'. That's my case: his ISO has plenty of useful town motivation. (The activity thing isn't unconditionally true, though, or at least I don't agree.)

SK: you said your push on farside wasn't for real (i.e. wasn't genuine.) I'm not saying that insincere=scummy, that's not true at all, but many players do think this way, or at least start their cases based on such (see: wagons all around the site based on anti-towniness, stupidness &c.) So you could have expected that you were gonna be called out! Then why on earth did consider reinoe's vote on you so extraordinary. I don't even remember which post I answered originally, I just want you to come out of the tunnel for now if reinoe manages to explain himself.

reinoe: I write it here, again: how was anyone supposed to know that Konowa being in a bracket means a scumread, but the same for the others doesn't?
sidenote: I've played an open with reinoe, he was scum and much more collected than now.

Cyberbob: I'm an Orthodox Konowa Lyncher, I think the Original Yup Case is sufficient. (He hasn't given much more, yet.)

Goofy or Drew, as I cannot really tell them apart:
During the weekend I can always find a good reason not to post, I spent Sunday with my grandmother then I watched the LEN final. Anyway, asking questions doesn't mean not providing content (to be more precise, if there are question marks at the end of each sentence, there can be still statement, regardless.)
I didn't duplicate any question.
Where did I say anything about SK's meta?
That'd have been a very bad gambit, but I have already stated that I had had no actual plan in my head.

Farside, Cooldog, RC and IAI are flying over my head, I'm gonna read them throughly.

Almost forgot:
Goofy: did you really not post something (effectively not answer a question) because you wanted to avoid pressure? That's just... whoah. I'll think about it.

Cooldog: reinoe's and RedPanda's avatar similar (maybe the same.)

I'm assuming the last part of your first post was for drew as none of it hit home for me. As for avoiding a question because of pressure, you have completely lost me, when did this happen? I didn't answer why rvs because it was like asking the teacher for a definition when you have a dictionary in your hands.

I'm assuming the last part of your first post was for drew as none of it hit home for me. As for avoiding a question because of pressure, you have completely lost me, when did this happen? I didn't answer why rvs because it was like asking the teacher for a definition when you have a dictionary in your hands.

Des, his reaction read scummy from him trying so hard to find someone to single out quickly, but rather than push that I was horrible scum immediately he went with "just answer the question" which read more like anyone who wanted to get the game rolling fast and have fun. Like I said someone else answered that particular question.

I would like you to explain why you provided nothing but questions with your comment when it was your first one in 24 hours. Did you gather nothing to share since then? Even with my posts during that period you are still on this?

During the weekend I can always find a good reason not to post, I spent Sunday with my grandmother then I watched the LEN final. Anyway, asking questions doesn't mean not providing content (to be more precise, if there are question marks at the end of each sentence, there can be still statement, regardless.)

Please stop pluralizing questions, that is the only one that I know of.

I didn't duplicate any question.

Now, since we've got all the posts we need, Goofy, here come the questions. If there's anything you don't get, you will find it in the quotes above.
Why didn't you answer SK's questions right away?
(assuming an answer for the previous:) Did you seriously not answer right away not to get pressure from SK?
Where did I pluralize questions?
Where did I mention SK's meta?
Why couldn't you answer these questions without so many quotes?

PEDIT: I didn't say that to prod you, Beck. And I have been thinking a bit, I'm not gonna ask that question today. Even if it remains unasked, it's gonna sort itself out, and on D1 it'd be really really bad for us.
PEDIT2: Well, by asking that, I'd also state something, so yeah...

[farside22]

Mod should be mob in post 589.

Will read post of horror when I get home too.

[Dessew]

It's not that bad, just a few questions to Goofy. It's just horrible how hard it is to get him answer everything.

[SleepyKrew]

When I read Beck post "If this game is 18 pages of reinoe and SK fighting I'm going to lose motivation", it resonated a little bit. I've had trouble digging into this game, and that's a big part of why. The spat between the two of them has gone a long, long, time. I've seen pretty big town on town spats. But I've never seen such a protracted one of this, that goes on and on.

At first I thought neither was scum, but the amount of filth they have filled the thread with has left me doubtful. There'd be more mutual interest in letting things drop for a moment for the good of the town.

I've had a gut town read on reinoe for a long time due to his carefree nature, but a null read on sleepy. Belligerence is cloudy to me. My gut doesn't tell me much about him, but my head realizes that there is a defensive component to his nagging, repetitive, cyclical desire to be right and to be identified as the "victor" of the engagement with reinoe, which has survivalist qualities to it. Reinoe doesn't seem to care as much, at least to me.

Vote: SleepyKrew

I'm the one being defensive (okay this question is but overall)?
I'm the one being survivalistic?
reinoe doesn't seem to care? reinoe doesn't want to "win" this argument?
Is that why he responds to all of my posts, and tries to score as many potshots or cheap "Gotcha!"s as he can?
If you think my case on reinoe is wrong, I implore you to tell me why. Here I'll link the important posts for you.
291, 381, 460
Feel free to quote points you agree with that other people (aka reinoe) have posted in response.

[Goofyd00d]

I was making it a point to ignore the why RVS question at first and was watching for his reaction to being ignored when Rei answered of what his reaction gave me. "[His] questions looked like fake scum hunting". I assumed at that point that that was sufficient an answer, and since noone but Skrew pushed right then I believed that it was. Once another player asked it again I answered completely as I chalked the original ordeal up to starting the game and thought we had moved on.

It wasn't to avoid pressure seeing as how ignoring his RVS question brought plenty of that, why would care?

Where you pluralized questions: 4 posts above where i mentioned it, not a hard find:

Phoneposting, so just addressing some stuff I can recall.
SK: you said your push on farside hadn't been serious. What on Earth did you expect, not to be called out?
Konowa: if I was damage controlling, I'd be doing a really bad job, I mean, read again, maybe?
Whoever asked why pops is town: their actions show town motivation and no scum motivation. I'll do a post with quotes tomorrow.
Goofy: I've had a very long conversation in my head with many obnoxious players and other people from my life while walking back and forth in the flat (which makes the cat extremally annoyed) and drinking like one and a half litres of water all thanks to your incompetence.

Answer the questions.

You're withholding information, or at least that's what you claim. Here's what I want you to do: 1. Find some catalogue of BS (a Coelho generator or whatever) and post it labelled as 'answer to SK's RVS question'. 2. Tell us what SK's posts during the RVS told you about his alignment. I need your thoughts from exactly that point of time, use only the posts from that time. I personally honestly mistrust your capabilities of understanding what I mean by the things said above, partly because of my past experiences, but do what you can, please. In the meantime, I might be just oversensitive because I had to explain someone that things imply themselves, but I'm seriously contemplating a PL on you right now. Jsyk.
Drew: I'd like to hear how I'm '... interesting.'

About you mentioning his meta

but SK fisrt[sic] posts do tell plenty of people to just lynch him

I read this as his first posts of the past at this point, I assumed you had played with him before based on it, if thats not the case I guess you ment his first few posts of this game, if this is the case I'll reread some with that frame of mind.

About not answering without quotes, I can at home, If I read 2 or 3 pages of sudden play on my phone I can only answer what stands out, my phone is an old POS but my time away from home+sleep is greater than my time at home by a large margin. If this game was more organised and had less pages of mud slinging it wouldn't be an issue. For your sake I will attempt to do better.

[farside22]

Dear lord.
Skrew: every time anyone points to a disagreement with you, I swear I keep seeing the same links over and over.
Give me someone else you scum read outside of renioe.

[reinoe]

I'd have to make up my reads on most everyone and I don't really wanna do that.

Skrew has no scumreads (or any reads whatsoever) besides me and is using it as an excuse to justify not scumhunting and just tunneling me all the live long day. That's kinda bonkers that we can go 24 pages and all Sleeps has to go on is an extended and protracted OMGUS.

Yo sleeps, why'd you ask me for that RC read?

[SleepyKrew]

I answered completely

Show me.

[SleepyKrew]

Dear lord.
Skrew: every time anyone points to a disagreement with you, I swear I keep seeing the same links over and over.
Give me someone else you scum read outside of renioe.

What's wrong with using those same links? They're the heart of my argument.
Like I've said, and I know you're aware that I said this, reinoe is my only scumread. I've got some suspicions on others but nothing worth pushing yet.