Mini 1591: PFs Flavorless Normal (Game Over)

[reinoe]

Spoiler: Neighbor crumb...

If you click on "Exclamation point" you'll be directed to Mr. Rogers Neighborhood theme song.

Is this some kind of obnoxiousness gambit?

My Gambits Are Really Spectacular EXCLAMATION POINT

Spoiler: 1-shot tracker crumb

Hey cooldog, farside, and red coyote, how many scum in here...

[konowa, sleepykrew, cyberbob]

What is this supposed to accomplish?

It allows me to cross reference some players to see if they have the same scum reads as I do. If I'm way off then I should re-asses. If multiple players have the same scumreads as I do then it let's me know

I'm on the right track.

You can find out more about how to play mafia here.

The tracker claim coincides with me listing my initial three scumreads. Fun fact, this post also happens to debunk one of the arguments SleepyKrew and co are clinging to: i.e. "I never said the first three people were scumreads.

[Beck]

Damn I just found dress's neighbor crumb also. So that's legit.

[Beck]

vote: cooldog

[farside22]

vote: cooldog

Explain why please.

[Beck]

Gut mostly. Plus he said his read changed on SK cause SK started scum hunting but he's done nothing but tunnel reinoe. If cooldog answers my question to my satisfaction I'll consider changing it but overall his play gives me bad vibes

[Dessew]

I started to make a case on Drew, but I got tangled up. Here are the bits of Goofy's 656 I find good, anyway:

I would quote #225 here but it has been requested that noone does that again. So I will simply state that ad hominen has no place in forum mafia. In live mafia where things can get heated some can be excusable, but in forum mafia it just means that you can't think of anything real to discredit arguments so you have to belittle people to get it done instead.

Spoiler: In post 325 we see Drew trying to convince people to stop using votes to pressure information out of people, very early in day 1, with noone above 4 votes. Basically no more active scum hunting with votes yo

Yes, yes I do.

I'm agreeing with the wagon on Konowa (which Reinoe is pushing), but suggesting my read on RC is stronger and I have more confidence in it. If we get close to end of day and Konowa wagon is still going, I'll happily change vote back and lynch him. However,

I think it is important for each player to stick to their strongest read until that point.

The problem is that just because you're on the wagon I agree with, doesn't mean your reasoning is

right

to be on that wagon. This is what Reinoe is suggesting - that you're either bussing or distancing (or both).

Skrew keeping off RC (or not following through with his thoughts on it) for what I consider insufficient reasons is, in my mind, not pro-town. If the guy is mafia, vote for him. If he isn't then don't.

Intent is the key, Cyberbob.

Why

are you on a wagon.

Spoiler: Here in post 329 We see Drew slip in a defense for Reinoe into a response to a post that did not pertain to Reinoe, seems he may be trying to be more discreet with his defense here

Your thoughts about Skrew's behaviour towards the RC wagon

might

have some potential but only if you're willing to follow through on them. If you're going to accuse someone of being scummy for acting in a way that is similar to how you are acting you can't just handwave the contradiction away with "well I'm obv town and my gut says he's scum", it doesn't work like that. Nobody is obvtown, especially not on D1, you can't sit back and expect people to take your word for it.

PS: Dessew's whole thing with trying to make a case for pops being town is remarkably stupid. Not only is it far too early in the game to be making those kinds of calls, you're also painting a target on that person's back for scum to nightkill.

Neg town isn't necessarily scummy. Neg town is, in my view, acting in a way that is not in towns best interests. Again, intent is important. You can be neg town but town (which is usually the player making a mistake), or you can be neg town and scum (which is scum making a play for a mislynch).

Reinoe is, IMHO, misguided. But he's not, in his argument, being neg town. He's raising valid points especially for Skrew that should be dealt with properly, not dismissed because of his personality.

Think about it.

As I was reading posts, I found this:

The only scenario where it would make sense that Drewscum would verbally cheer on SK's wagon while voting for you is if you are town and SK is his buddy.

Where did Drew 'verbally cheer on SK's wagon'?

[reinoe]

Hey farside how do you feel about putting a vote on CoolDog?


It's kinda hilarious and sad. The scum (and sleepykrew) want to push through a lynch on me when part of the case requires me to be a fucking time traveller.

Thank you, I didn't know what to say but you put it eloquently.

You two should explain these comments.

[Goofyd00d]

As Beck pointed out neighbor doesn't mean town, and even the wiki says that most neighborhoods contain one scum. Sucks to see what felt like and could still be a good lynch get stopped.

The tracker crumb seems like it could have been a happy accident for you, as the neighbor one was drastic and risky, this one is just normal speech.

Also in a game with this many people who post sporadically, this would have been more town beneficial if you came out a couple of day ago to ensure we beat the deadline.

[farside22]

As Beck pointed out neighbor doesn't mean town, and even the wiki says that most neighborhoods contain one scum. Sucks to see what felt like and could still be a good lynch get stopped.

The tracker crumb seems like it could have been a happy accident for you, as the neighbor one was drastic and risky, this one is just normal speech.

Also in a game with this many people who post sporadically, this would have been more town beneficial if you came out a couple of day ago to ensure we beat the deadline.

Out of curiosity what is your thought on dessew?

[reinoe]

As Beck pointed out neighbor doesn't mean town, and even the wiki says that most neighborhoods contain one scum. Sucks to see what felt like and could still be a good lynch get stopped.

The tracker crumb seems like it could have been a happy accident for you, as the neighbor one was drastic and risky, this one is just normal speech.

Also in a game with this many people who post sporadically, this would have been more town beneficial if you came out a couple of day ago to ensure we beat the deadline.

Good luck getting that wagon on Drew. I absolutely will not help with it. Or you could switch to Cooldog.

I didn't expect a wagon based on a thoroughly debunked case (fucking time travel)to stay on me until three and a half game days were left. That should raise some eyebrows to the townies about the people on my wagon.

[Goofyd00d]

I won't be able to make a computer post until tomorrow, so without too much rereading my general feel for dess is town, his arguments are usually well thought out and he is open about how he interprets things.

I also feel like attempting to put the spot light on me, someone who had very little heat, would be a poor scum move as my lynch potential seemed low at the time compared to others he could have pushed on.

[farside22]

Someone remind me, because I can't remember did deewser attack goofy? I thought it was Drew because I keep getting those two confused in my head based on there names starting with d and my phones desire to auto correct deewser name

[Dessew]

(Assuming you are talking about me.)
I wouldn't call it attacking, but a huge portion of my posts have been about Goofy.
You can call me just Des or Dess or something like that.

[farside22]

(Assuming you are talking about me.)
I wouldn't call it attacking, but a huge portion of my posts have been about Goofy.
You can call me just Des or Dess or something like that.

How do you feel about renioe both private topic and game wise?

[Dessew]

He made only one post with like three sentences in the PT. Although that one post was relatively substantial for a pre-game post.
I've been townreading him for most of the game. I got less certain about my read one or two times, though.
The tones of his posts in the PT and in the thread match one another.

[Beck]

How many posts did you make in the QT?

Did he town read you right away? Did you town read him right away?

His posts were substantial how exactly?

[RedCoyote]

UNVOTE: reinoe

I believe reinoe. He could be pulling some gambit, but I doubt it. Goofy's continued suspicion of reinoe seems out of place, especially his criticism of the tracker crumb which is pretty clear to me.

I'm happy to lynch Drew, but if reinoe is strongly against it, I'll give him some leadership capital here after the barrage he's had to go through this game (of which I was clearly a part of). I'm not doing a 180 on reinoe's earlier play all of a sudden, but I'll give him props for fighting as long and hard as he has before claiming. I also give him props for claiming when he did and giving the town ample time to pivot elsewhere. Both good, pro-townie things to do. I can abide a CD lynch on the back of reinoe's earlier point that CD seemed to be coaching Goofy a bit. I'm going to look over farside's case again and see how palatable it is in light of this recent claim.

[RedCoyote]

Dessew/reinoe, do y'all have to share that tracker power or is it solely at reinoe's discretion?

[reinoe]

Dessew/reinoe, do y'all have to share that tracker power or is it solely at reinoe's discretion?

The tracker is just mine.

[RedCoyote]

no seriously sk is scum but let's sheep him now

Who the flark thinks renioe/Skrew scum team?

This is a pretty good point. The case can be made that CD was shopping both wagons, looking for which one was the "winning horse", as it were, and flipping from one to the other when he thought the chances looked better that reinoe would be lynched.

a touch?

This is a fair point as well. I don't know how scummy it makes CD, but it's a point of fact that he flip flopped.

---

Hey Dessew,

Spoiler:

I'm about to go to bed and I meant to actually do this earlier.

I'm a town neighbor with Dessew. Dessew please confirm.

I can confirm this. I have also realized something just now.

What did you just realize, btw?

Look, eh, I'll vote Drew, CD or IAI at this point. reinoe's claim also gives me better vibes about farside. She may have just gotten lucky and attached herself to reinoe early, but I'll err on the side of her having a better town game than me (which isn't saying much), or at least being able to read reinoe better than me.

VOTE: CooLDoG

I think Drew may have a better shot at scum, but I also think it may be my bias talking that's getting me thinking that. We may just be rubbing each other the wrong way, although I think he's being extremely unfair and unreasonable in a lot of the things he's said. I talked about this with SK some earlier.

On the back of some posts that could be read as coaching (501, 504), his flip flop with regard to SK/reinoe scum, and how little he's referenced IAI (I don't think he's addressed IAI once), Dessew, and Goofy. He mentioned Goofy a few times, but it always comes across as him coaching or helping him along, not that he's trying to get a read for his alignment.

[I Am Innocent]

My thoughts on farside being considered for a doc claim help scum out none-what-so-ever.

I don't speak for Bob, but your speculation in even bringing up a doctor is unwarranted. Town shouldn't be fishing for roles. Period.

Dessew/reinoe, do y'all have to share that tracker power or is it solely at reinoe's discretion?

[RedCoyote]

How can you fish for a role that has been claimed?

I was clarifying this because if reinoe dies tomorrow and Dessew claimed he had results, I wanted it on record while they were both alive whether or not either of them could do the track.

[I Am Innocent]

no seriously sk is scum but let's sheep him now

Who the flark thinks renioe/Skrew scum team?

This is a pretty good point. The case can be made that CD was shopping both wagons, looking for which one was the "winning horse", as it were, and flipping from one to the other when he thought the chances looked better that reinoe would be lynched.

a touch?

This is a fair point as well. I don't know how scummy it makes CD, but it's a point of fact that he flip flopped.

---

Hey Dessew,

Spoiler:

I'm about to go to bed and I meant to actually do this earlier.

I'm a town neighbor with Dessew. Dessew please confirm.

I can confirm this. I have also realized something just now.

What did you just realize, btw?

Look, eh, I'll vote Drew, CD or IAI at this point. reinoe's claim also gives me better vibes about farside. She may have just gotten lucky and attached herself to reinoe early, but I'll err on the side of her having a better town game than me (which isn't saying much), or at least being able to read reinoe better than me.

VOTE: CooLDoG

I think Drew may have a better shot at scum, but I also think it may be my bias talking that's getting me thinking that. We may just be rubbing each other the wrong way, although I think he's being extremely unfair and unreasonable in a lot of the things he's said. I talked about this with SK some earlier.

On the back of some posts that could be read as coaching (501, 504), his flip flop with regard to SK/reinoe scum, and how little he's referenced IAI (I don't think he's addressed IAI once), Dessew, and Goofy. He mentioned Goofy a few times, but it always comes across as him coaching or helping him along, not that he's trying to get a read for his alignment.

"Look, eh, I'll vote Drew, CD or IAI at this point." Two guys with wagons, and me with no votes. Interesting.

"and how little he's referenced IAI (I don't think he's addressed IAI once)" I assume this in reference to Cooldog? The guy you just voted. The guy I've voted most of D1. The guy I voted over Reinoe, who you are kissing up to at this point?

Got a good feeling most, if not all the scum are in {Cooldog, Cyberbob, Drew, RC}. Pops lurking of recent is not giving me good vibes either.

RC voting Cooldog, while pops voting Drew could be very telling later.

[I Am Innocent]

How can you fish for a role that has been claimed?

I was clarifying this because if reinoe dies tomorrow and Dessew claimed he had results, I wanted it on record while they were both alive whether or not either of them could do the track.

Do you think clarifying this helped the scum? Moreso than me making a random suggestion on who the doc may want to protect?

(answers are yes and yes btw)

[I Am Innocent]

Why would scum Dessew claim results anyway? lol