NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[chamber]

Chambers case on me, was lurking and the fact I wanted to play skype mafia on a deadline day rather than watch the thread, both are points that I wouldn't deny, (beyond the fact that I was in the thread before deadline hit, but the lynch had happened) I find his interactions in this game verge on frequent but minimal, but that could be style. I found his opinion on DGB quite interesting a lot of the time, unable to read her effectively, but at times willing to follow her blindly and at other times voting her.

You can add that you are using the word 'interesting' too often and don't appear to be reading the game very deeply. Do you know when I voted for DGB? When she was the only viable counter wagon to CES. Do you know when I blindly followed her? Never.

Actually lets hammer in that 'interesting' point just so that it doesn't get lost. You aren't drawing conclusions, you are just talking about events without -really- saying anything. It's what I meant when I called our earlier post a prototypical scum post.

[Porochaz]

You know I did notice that before I posted, and I wondered if anyone was going to be petty enough to mention it. Seems I was wrong.

[VitaminR]

Glad other people are also picking up on some of the odd revisionism in Yos's posts.

I am also curious about this post where VitR says he is not sure if he has ever seen ABR look more town because he has avoided taking the "easy road". This was actually Yosarian's comment but he agreed with it. @Yos and @Vit - do you still feel this way?

Basically. I still feel that ABR has done a few things that make me think he's town (actually trying to build cases, avoiding some easy wagons), which I typically don't. That said, like I said before, I'm not sure I follow his behavior in the last few days that well.

[Yosarian2]

You are guilty of self delusion on a scale that's incomprehensible to me if you are town and truly believe that you were a factor in getting him lynched beyond placing a single vote at a time when you were in a position where you really couldn't do anything else.

Chamber, is there a reason that you've spent so much time this game insulting me and trying to block me from doing anything useful at all? It's really starting to get on my nerves at this point.

I wont speak for other moments, because I haven't been going out of my way to be so; I'm just an abrasive person. But in this moment I wasn't intending to insult you at all. I was stating a scum read first and foremost, and I was, if you are town, trying to make you take a moment to self reflect on that incident and think about whether you really had the impact you seem to perceive.

It's just really frustrating for you, of all people, to try to accuse me of being "slow" on voting STD yesterday, when I probably would have got there sooner if you hadn't made it so difficult for me to question DGB for reasons I still don't fully understand. But, whatever.

[Yosarian2]

I mean, first you tried to stop me from attacking CES (but refused to defend him when asked), then you tried to stop me from questioning DGB (but refused to give any kind of read on her), and today you've been trying to stop me from attacking VitR (while refusing to defend him, or to give any kind of read on him.)

Am I just not supposed to play mafia here or something? How am I supposed to accomplish anything if you attack me and get in the way any time I try to question or attack anyone in the game, but then refuse to explain why you're doing it or to give your own read on any of those people?

[chamber]

CES and DGB were pretty similar(and I was right about your reasons on CES being wrong). This VitR one is very different. I made like 1 comment about how you guys have said everything and not managed to convince enough of the rest of us to make it happen today. It was targeted at you instead of at him because you were the one that was still trying.

[MrBuddyLee]

@Yos and VitR, how many games have you guys played together? Has there been any history of antagonism between you?

[VitaminR]

Sorry, I missed that first time around. At least a handful? The only specific games I remember are two minis in which we ended up going toe-to-toe. I actually looked them up again myself recently to compare them to this game, though I didn't really feel like I got a ton out of it. I'll give you the links: Wages of Sin and Scenes.

[Yosarian2]

@Yos and VitR, how many games have you guys played together? Has there been any history of antagonism between you?

We've played some games together. From memory, I think that we have often ended up voting each other because of clashing playstyles, but usually not to this extent.

His playstyle this game does feel different from what I remember of him as town. I can't remember him ever being this defensive, or tunneling as much as he's done this game. That being said, I haven't played at all for about a year, and I haven't played with him in a lot longer then that I think, so I don't claim to be an expert in his meta.

Really, the only thing that's giving me pause now is that he honestly seems offended that I keep calling him scum and saying his attack on me was bad, in a way that I wouldn't really expect to see from scum, and it doesn't feel like he's doing it for tactical reasons either. However, that's still really the only town tell I have on him; I do still tend to think he's more likely scum then not.

[Sotty7]

I haven't put ABR in my scummy pile in a long time, but at this point, it's starting to feel less like "town ABR desperate to lynch" and more like "ABR is realizing he's looking pro-town via his desperation and is intentionally trying to foster that appearance."

Yeah, this is bad. Stop this. ABR is town and I feel his pain. I would love to have more lynching and less twiddling thumbs. This just makes my skin crawl.

Can you explain what is changing your mind towards him being more scummy now?

besides the fact that I played a major role pushing both scum lynches we've had so far,

Bullshit. You had 0 role in the std lynch.

I counted votes early in the day, and I do not think there were enough votes to lynch STD without my vote. Maybe it would have happened at deadline anyway, or maybe the replcament of PJ would have changed things, I don't know. But I certainly do think I played a major role in the lynch of STD.

There were plenty of people around at the doc claim for example to make that lynch happen.

[Yosarian2]

There were plenty of people around at the doc claim for example to make that lynch happen.

(shrug) Once STD fake claimed and was counterclaimed, he was dead, sure. I don't know if he would have been pushed to that point if it hadn't been for my vote on him and my constant repetition that he was likely scum, If I had instead voted DGB early in the day and then stayed on her, Green Crayons probably would have stayed on DGB as well, and then I'm not sure STD ever gets pressured to the point of fake claiming.

I'm not trying to take credit for the STD lynch, but I think I did play a significant supporting role in it actually happening yesterday,

[MrBuddyLee]

Testing:

Sweet, game is back up.

Let me

unvote

my lurker vote, and re-read quickly.

[MrBuddyLee]

Test 1 complete. Full reread to relevant LML post, rapid skim.

[MrBuddyLee]

Test 2 complete. Fast skim of LML ISO to relevant post.

[MrBuddyLee]

Test 3 complete.

Ugh. This one makes me cringe, especially since I remember LML as being especially hard to lynch most of the time. Is he really using the "I'm a village idiot so scum like to target me" defense here? His posts have felt off to me for much of the game, and this just feels like a scummy defense.

The biggest problem I have with his play so far, though, is that there's very little scumhunting. Most of his posts seem to be making excuses for not doing much proper scumhunting yet, which really bothers me, and feels both out of character and scummy. His attempts to have it both ways with Tigras still bothers me, but it wouldn't bother me so much if he was also scumhunting. The only other real scumhunting he did was his STD vote, but that also feels pretty weak to me; he doesn't really explain it, and he doesn't press it, or try to put pressure on STD, or try to get STD to answer any questions or anything.

VitaminR feels less suspicious to me now. Still wouldn't mind an undo wagon.

For now,

vote: loudmouthlee

[MrBuddyLee]

Ok, so Yos's 378 came at 3:04 pm after the server came back up:

Sweet, game is back up.

Let me unvote my lurker vote, and re-read quickly.

Nine minutes later, at 3:13, he posts 379:

One of my favorite things to do is to find the village idiot and hunt scum off of the wagon. That used to be a really easy way to find scum. Also, when you have an outspoken "foot in mouth player" (such as myself and DGB), we become mafia fodder as well.

Ugh. This one makes me cringe, especially since I remember LML as being especally hard to lynch most of the time. Is he really using the "I'm a village idiot so scum like to target me" defense here? His posts have felt off to me for much of the game, and this just feels like a scummy defense.

The biggest problem I have with his play so far, though, is that there's very little real scumhunting. Most of his posts seem to be him making excuses for not doing much proper scumhunting yet, which really bothers me, and feels both out of character and scummy. His attempts to have it both ways with Tigras still bothers me, but it wouldn't bother me so much if he was also scumhunting. The only other real scumhunting he did was his STD vote, but that also feels pretty weak to me; he doesn't really explain it, and he doesn't press it, or try to put pressure on STD, or try to get STD to answer any questions or anything.

VitimanR feels less suspicious to me now. Still wouldn't mind an Undo wagon.

For now, vote:loudmouthlee

It takes five minutes to type Yos's 379. It takes about two minutes to skim LML's ISO at impossibly fast speed.

Yos would have us believe that in

nine minutes

, he did all of the following:
* reread the game well enough to find that LML quote
* read a little bit of VitR
* read a little undo
* processed the information, came to several conclusions
* typed up his post for five minutes.

Not buying it. This post by Yos (379) was synthesized over the server outage, and I believe he lied about doing a reread.

[MrBuddyLee]

All of the following happened on server-up:

Oh, for the record, STD is town.

VitimanR feels less suspicious to me now. Still wouldn't mind an Undo wagon.

For now, vote:loudmouthlee

Yos comes off as quite town in his last few posts, with his discussion of DGB and LML.

I'm not convinced that LML's scumhunting is actually scummy

Unvote LML, vote: petroleumjelly

Unvote LML

Vote: PJ

In the first 24 hours server-up, STD and Yos got into a little slapfight about nothing, and Yos used that fight to declare:

Oh, for the record, STD is town. So far, he's picked a fight with Seol, LML, me, and PJ, who are 4 people that are all absurdly good at getting people lynched.

Yos and LML also got into a slapfight in the first 24 hours.

It really, really looks like scum got together in a quicktopic over the server outage break and decided to pursue a particular set of strategies:
* STD and VitR quit busing LML and went after PJ
* Yos jumped on LML and found VitR and STD more townish
* VitR finds both Yos and LML more townish
* Everyone argle-bargles with each other a bunch

Net result: LML has less overall people voting for him, all scum are sufficiently distanced from each other, and all scum except LML are in the clear! Oh, and PJ is on the hot seat.

[Juls]

Mbl, I seriously doubt the mafia have day talk considering the masons do not.

[chamber]

Patrick has had stuff like that not match up before. I was once in a game of his where there were both day and night neighbours, for instance.

[Juls]

Well, we also have an onsite PT, not an offsite QT

[Yosarian2]

Ok, so Yos's 378 came at 3:04 pm after the server came back up:

Sweet, game is back up.

Let me unvote my lurker vote, and re-read quickly.

Nine minutes later, at 3:13, he posts 379:

One of my favorite things to do is to find the village idiot and hunt scum off of the wagon. That used to be a really easy way to find scum. Also, when you have an outspoken "foot in mouth player" (such as myself and DGB), we become mafia fodder as well.

Ugh. This one makes me cringe, especially since I remember LML as being especally hard to lynch most of the time. Is he really using the "I'm a village idiot so scum like to target me" defense here? His posts have felt off to me for much of the game, and this just feels like a scummy defense.

The biggest problem I have with his play so far, though, is that there's very little real scumhunting. Most of his posts seem to be him making excuses for not doing much proper scumhunting yet, which really bothers me, and feels both out of character and scummy. His attempts to have it both ways with Tigras still bothers me, but it wouldn't bother me so much if he was also scumhunting. The only other real scumhunting he did was his STD vote, but that also feels pretty weak to me; he doesn't really explain it, and he doesn't press it, or try to put pressure on STD, or try to get STD to answer any questions or anything.

VitimanR feels less suspicious to me now. Still wouldn't mind an Undo wagon.

For now, vote:loudmouthlee

It takes five minutes to type Yos's 379. It takes about two minutes to skim LML's ISO at impossibly fast speed.

Yos would have us believe that in

nine minutes

, he did all of the following:
* reread the game well enough to find that LML quote
* read a little bit of VitR
* read a little undo
* processed the information, came to several conclusions
* typed up his post for five minutes.

Not buying it. This post by Yos (379) was synthesized over the server outage, and I believe he lied about doing a reread.

Actually, I was trying to vote LML right when the server went down. Patrick posted that Nat was replaced in post 339, then LML made his incredibly scummy post 343. I was literally in the middle of writing a big post to vote for LML on May 21st when mafiascum went down and wouldn't let me post it. Frustating. So I made basically that post when the server came back up; I unvoted Nat right away, then I typed out the big post.

So, yes; I was already pretty sure what I was going to do when I came back. I did re-read a little bit to confirm that my memory of events was correct, before and while I was making that post.

[Sotty7]

Mbl, I seriously doubt the mafia have day talk considering the masons do not.

Yeah pretty much this.

Not really buying the timing push from MBL, but that doesn't mean those interactions after the server came back up aren't telling. The game was down enough for potential scum to "rethink" things for sure.

[MrBuddyLee]

Actually, I was trying to vote LML right when the server went down. Patrick posted that Nat was replaced in post 339, then LML made his incredibly scummy post 343. I was literally in the middle of writing a big post to vote for LML on May 21st when mafiascum went down and wouldn't let me post it. Frustating. So I made basically that post when the server came back up; I unvoted Nat right away, then I typed out the big post.

So, yes; I was already pretty sure what I was going to do when I came back. I did re-read a little bit to confirm that my memory of events was correct, before and while I was making that post.

So after you said you'd "reread", you didn't read any of the posts other players made, right?

Or any of LML's three new posts, including his VCA post?

Zorblag made two MASSIVE posts analyzing everyone. STD made a huge post. Twelve other players posted content.

And you chose to ignore all of those posts and just roll with your LML suspicions from memory, a week after you'd last read anything anyone posted?

You typed that "VitaminR feels less suspicious now".. did you reread his posts to determine that? Because you didn't really have time to do that AND reread LML's.

Nine minutes.

[MrBuddyLee]

Yos's switch from VitR to LML is particularly cringe-worthy and smells like scum trying to ride the tides to an easy lynch. Vote: Yosarian2

Basically correct, just not in the way he thought it was.

[undo]

So you subscribe to the theory that Yos and VitR are scum together, MBL? Which one do you think it would be preferrable to lynch first?