NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)


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Post Post #3925 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:58 am

Post by MrBuddyLee »

Adding to the list of "things that smart, dead townies said", CES nailed Yos on this one:
Yos wrote:Bookitty (8) --
Sotty7
,
Shanba
,
Cogito Ergo Sum
, chamber,
Untrod Tripod
, mathcam,
undo
,
CrashTextDummie

Bookitty (7) --
Sotty7, Shanba, Cogito Ergo Sum
, chamber, mathcam,
undo
,
CrashTextDummie


There's got to be at least 1 scum on the Bookitty wagon here, probably 2.
I'm becoming increasingly confident that CES has to be scum here. Mathcam is also on the suspect list.
Vote: CES

CES wrote:
Yeah, that's just lazy bullshit. You're really not looking at your own arguments skeptically if you think this is a thing that matters.


Haha, scum couldn't help themselves. "Hurr durr, let's lynch off the Boo-wagon for greater justice. Tee hee!"
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Post Post #3926 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:03 am

Post by MrBuddyLee »

More CES on Yos:
CES wrote:The (Yos) argument I was calling out was confirmation bias at best and lazy scum play at worst


CES wrote:Even though I realize the Yosarian2wagon is unlikely to go through Today now, I'd still point out that Yosarian2 has been unnaturally sure of himself (#2591 is on the level of broseidon or benmage). He's not approaching his own opinions as things that could be wrong; I definitely don't get the feeling that he's meaningfully digested the points VitaminR or I have made in response to him; the sequence #2596-#2604 also shows him trying to fit every piece of information into a point against me. Especially when you compare it to D1, where he seemed to have much more reasonable opinions and a measured suspicion of LmL - I can't help but see it as bluster so he can keep pushing the way he wants to, since he can't rely on already knowing his target is scum.
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Post Post #3927 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:04 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

In post 3922, MrBuddyLee wrote:
In post 3920, Yosarian2 wrote:Actually, I was trying to vote LML right when the server went down. Patrick posted that Nat was replaced in post 339, then LML made his incredibly scummy post 343. I was literally in the middle of writing a big post to vote for LML on May 21st when mafiascum went down and wouldn't let me post it. Frustating. So I made basically that post when the server came back up; I unvoted Nat right away, then I typed out the big post.

So, yes; I was already pretty sure what I was going to do when I came back. I did re-read a little bit to confirm that my memory of events was correct, before and while I was making that post.

So after you said you'd "reread", you didn't read any of the posts other players made, right?


I said I'd do a "quick re-read". To be clear, what that means is that I got on, unvoted right away before I had a chance to even look at any of the other posts that had been made since the server got on (I've learned the hard way that when you're not sure what's going on you unvote first and then check the status of the game afterwards, not the other way around.)

As it turned out, not much had changed since before the server went down. But I didn't know that when I made that first post.


Or any of LML's three new posts, including his VCA post?


Yeah, I read the two pages or so of posts that had come since the game came back up.

Does it really take you more then "9 minutes" to read 2 pages of posts, MBL?


And you chose to ignore all of those posts and just roll with your LML suspicions from memory, a week after you'd last read anything anyone posted?


Uh, I didn't ignore anything. What are you talking about?

For the record, I had been thinking about voting LML for a while, once the lurker situation had resolved itself. I had been increasingly suspicious of him, as you can see from my questions of him in previous posts.

You typed that "VitaminR feels less suspicious now".. did you reread his posts to determine that?


No; as I had said several times that day, I was assuming at the time that VitR and LML were probably not scum together, because of VitR's early attack on LML. The main reason I feel differently now is because VitR's attacks on LML basically stopped during the second half of the day, after we got back from the server being down.

I never claimed to have re-read the entire game before making that post, or even implied it, and I can't see what would make you assume that.

This is a really weird line of questioning, MBL; I'm not even sure what you're trying to get at. Are you accusing me of voting without re-reading the entire game? Well, yes, obviously I did; do you always re-read every post in the entire game before you do anything? I checked to see what was going on, made sure nobody was close to lynch or anything, took a quick look at ongoing stuff, didn't see anything particularly relevant, and then made the post I had been about to make anyway.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #3928 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:08 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

In post 3925, MrBuddyLee wrote:
Haha, scum couldn't help themselves. "Hurr durr, let's lynch off the Boo-wagon for greater justice. Tee hee!"


Uh. What the hell are you talking about?

If there's two wagons, and one is on scum, I always assume that the other one was being pushed by scum. That assumption is right 99% of the time. You didn't seem to any problem with me making that argument at the time.

I mean, are you really going to just go back and quote every logical argument I've made all game and then say "hurr durr, tee hee" and pretend that's a counterargument?
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #3929 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:39 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

In fact, the argument that there was at least one scum on the bookitty wagon is *still* probably correct; I do still think mathcam is more likely scum then not here.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #3930 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:40 am

Post by MrBuddyLee »

DGB on Yos:
DGB wrote:I'll point out that it's not rare finding a scum in the cohort of timid wagoners, here:

29.5 Yosarian2
18.1 chamber
18.0 MrBuddyLee
16.0 MafiaSSK/mathcam


DGB wrote:Do you want to look at the average number of points per wagon? I have this too.

14.7 Yosarian2


DGB wrote:for instance if you look at those shy wagoners, that are on two wagons each:
Yosarian2
chamber
MrBuddyLee
>>> Yosarian2 looks very bad

Those that look worse do so because while they were on few wagons, they tended to be on wagon with high probability of the remaining players being scum.


DGB wrote:
It doesn't look like you are trying to figure out his alignment, it looks like you are trying to smear him.


I'm beginning to get this sense, too, since Yosarian is singularly focused.


In post 2273, DrippingGoofball wrote:
Yos wrote:If PJ says he has a town read on her based on his comparing her play here to a previous game he played with her, then I'm going to take that seriously. He's confirmed town, and I tend to trust his judgement.

NOW you're scum.


DGB wrote:Yosarian is scum for:

(1) Trusting PJ's "meta" on Sotty based on observation of a single game; remember that PJ also tried to "meta" me based on a single game earlier.
(2) We all know meta is crap, who would actually rely on someone else's "meta" proclamations to begin with... and without checking? Not that double-checking makes "meta" anymore reliable.
(3) PJs reads are bad so it's a great place for scum to hide behind.


DGB wrote:
VOTE: Yosarian


DGB wrote:And this is the average "scumminess" per wagon a player is on:

21 Yosarian2


I would not vote Yos.
DGB wrote:Translation: "I would not vote my other buddy."


DGB wrote:We need to work as a team and I think overall we know we need to lynch the following 3 players:

STD
Yosarian
OMGL


DGB wrote:
Yos wrote:I'm looking at lynching either VitimanR or STD today.


Stupendous! Since we're not lynching VitaminR, we're counting on your STD vote.

(note: Yos later changed this to "vote DGB or STD today")

DGB wrote:
Yos wrote:I'm really thinking that either you or STD is scum

Check your role PM! Then vote STD for town cred.


DGB wrote:I don't believe you're trying to figure out my alignment. You know me too well not to know with near absolute certainty that I'm town on this fourth game day. PJ may misled himself. But Yosariantown? Yosariantown would have read me correctly moons ago. Yosariantown would be defending me.


DGB wrote:
Yos wrote:So, just to be clear, you're admitting at this point that either you or STD has to be scum, right? So if we lynch STD and he flips town, you're scum?


THIS

IS NOT

A QUESTION MEANT TO FIGURE OUT MY ALIGNMENT.


DGB wrote:Hey Yosarian, how come you're saying that you want to lynch either VitaminR or STD today, but suddenly, if STD flips town, I should walk myself to the guillotine?


DGB wrote:
Yos wrote:I really do want to lynch STD today


Then why is getting you to vote STD like pulling teeth?


DGB, to Yos wrote:Thank you for being so obvscum. I feel a bit sorry for you and your team, but I appreciate that your fighting spirit.


DGB wrote:You say you want to lynch STD.

But then you pester me all day to get me to "prove" my alignment.

And you say you want to lynch STD, but you're not pestering STD to "prove" his alignment.

The guy you say you want to lynch, you leave in peace.


DGB, to cam wrote:4) Good job pulling out Yos out of
the well he has fallen into
by changing the subject to some mindless neutral banter about Porochaz.

(LOL!)

DGB wrote:Make no mistake. We will lynch Yosarian. He is scum. We just can't lynch them all at once.


DGB, to Yos wrote:
We're lynching STD today and if he flips scum, we lynch you tomorrow.
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Post Post #3931 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:44 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

You do realize that by the end of the day yesterday, once she understood what I had been trying to do, DGB had realized I was town, right?
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #3932 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:45 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Why would you quote all that and then ignore the part where she actually got a solid town read on me at the end of the day, around the same time I got a solid town read on her?
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #3933 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:51 am

Post by MrBuddyLee »

In post 3927, Yosarian2 wrote:Yeah, I read the two pages or so of posts that had come since the game came back up.

Does it really take you more then "9 minutes" to read 2 pages of posts, MBL?

It takes five minutes to speed-type your post on LML at 40 WPM. That leaves you four minutes to read two full pages of posts, including giant posts by Zorblag and STD. And that leaves you zero minutes to think.

Zorblag's 354
LML's VCA
STD's blarg where he unvoted LML

You didn't read that shit in four minutes.
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Post Post #3934 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:55 am

Post by MrBuddyLee »

In post 3932, Yosarian2 wrote:Why would you quote all that and then ignore the part where she actually got a solid town read on me at the end of the day, around the same time I got a solid town read on her?

She didn't have time to think straight at the end there.. she was scumputing like mad in a desperate attempt to get numbers out before nightfall.

It's charming that you point to that though.

Also, LOL @ "solid town read". You really are the master of hyperbole this game.
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Post Post #3935 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:00 am

Post by MrBuddyLee »

In post 3924, undo wrote:So you subscribe to the theory that Yos and VitR are scum together, MBL? Which one do you think it would be preferrable to lynch first?

Whichever one's less likely to rat out their scumpartner. Yos is looking pretty tasty right now.
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Post Post #3936 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:06 am

Post by MrBuddyLee »

In post 3928, Yosarian2 wrote:If there's two wagons, and one is on scum, I always assume that the other one was being pushed by scum. That assumption is right 99% of the time. You didn't seem to any problem with me making that argument at the time.

It looks increasingly like a town-rich wagon at this point, thus pushing it would be a delicious scum tactic. Even if there's one scum on there, it's still a prime source from which to mine townies. And therefore, anyone pushing that hypothesis TOO forthrightly arouses the nose of the town bloodhounds. Juls noticed it too. I think others may have as well.
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Post Post #3937 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:06 am

Post by MrBuddyLee »

vote: Yosarian2
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Post Post #3938 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:33 am

Post by MrBuddyLee »

I think this sums it up best:
CES wrote:I'd still point out that Yosarian2 has been unnaturally sure of himself (#2591 is on the level of broseidon or benmage). He's not approaching his own opinions as things that could be wrong


In post 2591, Yosarian2 wrote:I don't need to find "the scum as a whole". In order to win, I just need to find one scum a day. Day 1, I found LML and lynched him. Day 2, I found CES. Day 3, I found VitR.


I was unsure about LML, unsure about Boo, unsure about Glork, unsure about CES, unsure about STD and DGB to the very end.

Yos just seems to have too much confidence in his beliefs at every step along the way. Too sure that Boo was town. Too sure that one of STD/DGB had to be scum. Too sure that DGB saying "blarg" meant that STD was scum.
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Post Post #3939 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:35 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Unvote, vote Yosarian


I don't like his posting in the last 2 pages.
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Post Post #3940 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:39 am

Post by chamber »

Fine.

Vote yos
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Post Post #3941 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:05 am

Post by Green Crayons »

What chamber said.

UNVOTE: Poro
VOTE: Yos
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Post Post #3942 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:23 am

Post by MrBuddyLee »

unvote
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Post Post #3943 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:35 am

Post by Patrick »

Votecount

ChannelDelibird (1) -- SpyreX
Yosarian2 (4) -- Juls, Albert B. Rampage, chamber, Green Crayons
Porochaz (3) -- mathcam, Sotty7, VitaminR
mathcam (2) -- Yosarian2, undo

Not voting: Bookitty, ChannelDelibird, Porochaz, MrBuddyLee
14 alive, 8 to lynch.

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Post Post #3944 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:47 am

Post by Bookitty »

No, no, no. I'm not voting Yosarian2 today. I much prefer ANY of the other three wagons.

I'm voting Porochaz because he's the leading non-Yos wagon but I'd be just as happy (probably more so) with voting mathcam or CDB.

Yos is playing only slightly less town than I remember town-Yos and I think we're all sort of burned out (maybe it's just me) at this point in the game. Being wrong (and grouchy) is not a scumtell. Being wrong is just being wrong.

VOTE: Porochaz
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Post Post #3945 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:57 am

Post by chamber »

In post 3942, MrBuddyLee wrote:
unvote

???
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Post Post #3946 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:01 am

Post by Green Crayons »

I don't discount fatigue as being a part of my Yos vote, but it's also motivated by factors I consider legitimate:

(1) His playing up of his role in getting STD lynched (scummy vibe);
(2) Confirmed town Juls, who has the added benefit of approaching the game from a different perspective of everyone else, thinks his play is scummy;
(3) MBL's points against him w/r/t immediate post-crash-recovery.


I'm still super happy with a Poro lynch, so if we're going that way, let's do it. UNVOTE: Yos, VOTE: Poro.


Also, lol @ MBL not even sticking to his "my votes are sacred" schtick.
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Post Post #3947 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:18 am

Post by MrBuddyLee »

vote: Yos
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Post Post #3948 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:19 am

Post by Bookitty »

In post 3933, MrBuddyLee wrote:It takes five minutes to speed-type your post on LML at 40 WPM.


40 WPM is not speed-typing. Many of us type a LOT faster than that :)
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Post Post #3949 (ISO) » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:29 am

Post by VitaminR »

I guess MBL is a lot more convincing than I am.
Unvote, Vote: Yos

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