micro 372: game over

[Flubbernugget]

vote xayzeck

Typing that name in is gonna be a pain in the ass the whole game.

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: Xayzeck

You're trying to confuse me. It will not work.

Oh also I'm a miller.

[Flubbernugget]

Hi how are you.

Even Rvs needs reasons. What's going on here?

[Flubbernugget]

I don't like the claim. To me it's WIFOM. Debate the theory if you wish. I'll probably lose, but I also doubt you'll get town points for it. Either that or it'll knock some sense into me. I really don't know.

[Flubbernugget]

Since I don't have anything right now that can either confirm or deny AngryPidgeon's role claim, I'm not sure what Flubbernugget wants me to do about it.

I just saw you claim Xay to be confusing. I saw AngryPidgeons claim to be confusing. Relatively at least.

[Flubbernugget]

Dammit missed RVS XD

Did you?

[Flubbernugget]

What do you mean by "line of no return"?

[Flubbernugget]

Um. This early in the game, shouldn't that be the opposite of a town read? I'd say WIFOM again, but I've had a strange fascination with WIFOM recent history, I feel like me claming its existence in yet another scenario would be the equivalent of trying to put a piece into a puzzle upside-down and smashing it in with a mallet.

[Flubbernugget]

Um. This early in the game, shouldn't that be the opposite of a town read? I'd say WIFOM again, but I've had a strange fascination with WIFOM recent history, I feel like me claming its existence in yet another scenario would be the equivalent of trying to put a piece into a puzzle upside-down and smashing it in with a mallet.

i dont think you know what wifom is? and however it may look like, i meant what i said. And i said that in early game cos later on if someone is being pressured or questioned or whatever, and i say AP should be lynched, it will look like im defending the one being pressured, or trying to divert attention towards AP.

but im curious, how does it look like a scum post?
are u sure u know why i want AP to be lynched till day 2?

So my response wasnt to what AP quoted, but instead to his response, which I'll quote as a quick reference.

His attitude looks town. Other people are hemming and hawing about my claim and he is taking a hard stance on it. I like his aggression.

Something makes me feel he's approving of such a harsh scum read so early because it was directed at him. It feels like a shallow way to get town points imo.

On another note, that kind of play this early (aggressive over skeptic) doesn't seem incredibly town. Trying to town read bad play is anti-town at best.

[Flubbernugget]

And I see next to no pressure on this wagon.

vote AngryPidgeon

[Flubbernugget]

And I see next to no pressure on this wagon.

vote AngryPidgeon

Are you blind? Kaboom is trying to PL me. Caled is calling me a liar. Brood is calling me scum with Jingle. You are ... voting me for pressure I guess, I'll be honest I haven't read your wall post yet. Oh and I probably have the top post count in the game. I'd love to hear why I need more pressure over anyone else though.

I have a couple of other points I need to address but I can get this one out of the way real quickly. I see no pressure on the Broodking wagon. I had no intention of wagoning AP. My vote was because he is scummy to me as of right now. I was not looking for a reaction from it. I shouldn't have split my posts up, and should have explicitly stated I was talking about the Brood wagon, and should have paid more attention to how many votes AP already had.

[Flubbernugget]

Something makes me feel he's approving of such a harsh scum read so early because it was directed at him. It feels like a shallow way to get town points imo.

did you see me giving him town points?! did you see me taking my vote from AP?! No, right. Because i didnt give any town points for that.

Is anybody else having trouble figuring out who I'm directing my poats to? I really just meant that it was an

attempt

to appear townie to everyone, and not just you. I gave no attempt at speculation as to how affective this attempt was, nor do I think it matters.

On another note, that kind of play this early (aggressive over skeptic) doesn't seem incredibly town. Trying to town read bad play is anti-town at best.

firstly, no matter what your playing style is, whether is it aggressive, skeptic, lazy, active whatever. the thing is, you just cant say it later!
secondly, you are still new, with experience you will learn how aggressive play is better than others at any stage of game. besides, playing style is something natural.
thirdly, if you think my play is bad and all, and you are better then why dont you show any result?! all your posts are just fluff. none of them actually lead to a discussion. you just post to show that you post. there is no actual scum hunting done.

I'm not sure what you mean by your first point. I might have to reread the thread to see what's going on here.

Second, the one IC that stood out to me the most through my newbie games was very reserved in the beginning off the game, mostly asking questions until day 2. I see their effective play as a counter example to being told aggressive play is the best with nothing to back that up other than learning with time. I kinda want to talk to them a little bit about aggressive playing to try and see where you're coming from there. Any suggestions on the best way to do that without speaking of this game would be appreciated.

For the third point, I mean, I got a pretty angry post out of you to say I'm not really leading to discussion. Perhaps we're just going to have to be oil and water this time around?

[Flubbernugget]

So then, the IC I had mentioned would then be considered aggressive in your eyes?

[Flubbernugget]

To give you a respectful answer this is my first non newbie game so that's where the majority of my frame of reference comes from.

[Flubbernugget]

So then, the IC I had mentioned would then be considered aggressive in your eyes?

if game has ended, copy paste the link here. i will tell if he is aggressive or not. if its not ended, dont talk about it.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=58280

I'm inquiring your opinion on the play style to try and get on the same page as you. I am in no way assuming any authority upon you as to the validity of what you say.

[Flubbernugget]

Okay I can probably answer this better now. Or at least I thought. Then I noticed something else...

Secondly, when it comes to playing style, just play naturally. Every style has its own pros and cons. you just have to stick with what suits you the best. so lets just not call each others play bad.

...

so you see the difference?
this is also how aggressive play is better then others. it generates more info in less time, it also helps rvs end faster, etc. etc.

I'm starting to get the impression you just like hearing yourself talk. It's going to be a pain in the ass getting reads from you.

[Flubbernugget]

not really. Both your town reads are voting you. And you seem a bit too confident about your reads this early, which i find odd.

Should there be a reason why I think voting me is scummy? I think you and Flubber honestly think Im scum. Xayzeck Im null on at this juncture. If there is scum on my wagon, its probably him.

We shouldn't think you're scummy. Why are you so okay with us thinking you're scummy?

[Flubbernugget]

That post is mad scummy, but how is it bluffing?

[Flubbernugget]

*swoops into thread*

Sup.

Hey guys lets lynch Brood or Jingle rather than voting townies. What do you say?

I'm assuming this means you have a VI read on caled?

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: caled

[Flubbernugget]

Although I do agree with her last point.

[Flubbernugget]

I'm not okay with AP being the biggest wagon. He's playing in a very protown fashion and raised good points on kaboom town. Not quite in agreement with his flubber-read, so currently my suspects are {flubber, caled, Brood}.

Reads from town to scum is roughly:

AP
TTH
Boom
Marquis
Xay
Flubber
Caled
Brood

Flubber, why are you voting AP? Xay, why are you voting AP?

Meh. Stale vote. But I was pretty null on everyone else.

On the brood wagon, he has continued to not produce anything that can vaguely be called content. The double prod-dodge with the promise of 'in the morning' inspires no confidence.

@mod:

can someone be replaced for excessive prod dodges? Not digging policy lynches in a micro.

On the caled wagon, I don't like that it has made it easier for brood to slip into obscurity, but the wagon itself is fine.

Agreed. But see the above point.

On the AP wagon, only kaboom has posted reasoning, and it was not good reasoning. AP is playing his claimed role in the most protown manner possible, and I'm not interested in seeing him get lynched today. Using Occam's Razor here, either AP decided to claim a negative utility role that often gets policy lynched in a setup that might not have a cop for towncred as scum, or AP is attempting to play miller in the most protown manner possible. I don't see another possible explanation. Considering I have never seen a miller onsite and AP has otherwise been very open with his reads, I'm willing to lean towards the latter and reconsider later.

Now that you've used occam's razor, do you have plans to test your hypotheses? Otherwise you're just restating you town read AP.

[Flubbernugget]

Early Miller claims are usually true and not scum- it locks you into that claim, so as scum you can't wait to fakeclaim in an opportune situation later.

AP as scum doesn't know what form the Town PR(s) take(s). It could be a Cop. But it could also be a Tracker, or something else.

What happens if a Tracker gets a guilty on AP? He can't claim Vigilante anymore, because he already claimed Miller (this is a micro normal; Miller Vigilante is very unlikely).

Basically scum has a lot to lose from a page 1 Miller claim, while claiming Miller instantly is the right play for Town. And this post isn't saying that he's Town, but rather that while the claim is in mind I'm not inclined to policy lynch him for it, nor am I inclined to scumread him solely based on the claim at all.

Holy shit, I would have never thought of this. Why the hell are you the first person to bring this up.

[Flubbernugget]

I didn't use the word town, did I?

What post is this directed at?

[Flubbernugget]

Holy shit, I would have never thought of this. Why the hell are you the first person to bring this up.

I thought the idea was implied. If you guys haven't been considering things like this (motivation and such) when trying to talk about the Miller claim then I'm not sure how to deal with that :/

Would you be willing to iso me and give a read on whether or not I seemed oblivious to this implication? Is it one you had to construct or one you knew about ahead of time?

[Flubbernugget]

So I didn't ask to prove anything about me. I asked to see if anyone was trying to play on my ignorance in the beginning. But looking back to it, there's not much I could really grill anyone over with the assumption they knew everything you said. Meh. Just call it over excitement on my part.

[Flubbernugget]

On the AP wagon, only kaboom has posted reasoning, and it was not good reasoning. AP is playing his claimed role in the most protown manner possible, and I'm not interested in seeing him get lynched today. Using Occam's Razor here, either AP decided to claim a negative utility role that often gets policy lynched in a setup that might not have a cop for towncred as scum, or AP is attempting to play miller in the most protown manner possible. I don't see another possible explanation. Considering I have never seen a miller onsite and AP has otherwise been very open with his reads, I'm willing to lean towards the latter and reconsider later.

Now that you've used occam's razor, do you have plans to test your hypotheses? Otherwise you're just restating you town read AP.

I'm attempting to rectify the situation of my biggest townread also being the biggest wagon. How is my logic not a good argument for AP town?

Because I don't think you're actually using occam's razor, which states to just go with the simplest answer right?

[Flubbernugget]

Additionally, I'd also feel much better if you gave me all of your reads in your next post

Dearest flubber, please advise ^

Word. Um. I really don't like read lists. But bitching about that hasn't really gotten me anywhere.

AP. Town. Has a solid explanation for everything I've pushed so far. Although I still don't like him town reading everyone that scum reads him. Seems to be working on that though. Interesting play from my point of view.

Marquis. Null. Would like to see more from him right now. Someone said the mafia theory explanation was pro town but I feel like if he tried to exploit anyone's ignorance someone would have torn him to shreds over it. My gut says town but I think that damn avatar has something to do with it.

Caled. Scum. Derp. I would need a defense of her being town before I could really even try to discuss this one.

Brood. Null. He's been here for a while for those prod dodges to not be legit. Like why would a 2 year old account lurk like that? Too much benefit of the doubt here? But again we really can't policy lynch. Meh.

Jingle. Null. But his last post is leaning town. I also want to look more into this occam's razor thing.

Kaboom. VI/null. Post 72 still really pisses me off. Otherwise he's just flailing.

TTH: nothing sticks out in my mind. But it's also 2 am right now. Will reread tomorrow.

Xayzeck: Where the fuck are you? Is that still an rvs vote? Scratch that, that's

the first vote of the game.

@town: why does xayzeck get a free lurking pass when Brood doesn't?

That should be everyone minus TTH.

[Flubbernugget]

No wonder I had nothing on TTH. Also lurking. But what's different from her is that it feels like she's using other's inactivity as an excuse to lurk, i.e. waiting to act till Brood is more active.

[Flubbernugget]

So scum read on TTH.

[Flubbernugget]

So scum read on TTH.

[Flubbernugget]

Brood. Null. He's been here for a while for those prod dodges to not be legit. Like why would a 2 year old account lurk like that? Too much benefit of the doubt here? But again we really can't policy lynch. Meh.

this is literally the dumbest reason for a read

"omg they've been on this site too long to lurk!!" dude some people are just really busy like right now or thats just what they do

smh

So. Um. Yeah. This is a misrep.

Would you like to address my read on you? No? Okay.

VOTE: emphasizing my vote on caled

[Flubbernugget]

The lurk doesn't come from the number of posts, but what's in them. And we have a deadline. We can't wait for Broodking.

[Flubbernugget]

You have no issue with a policy lynch like that?

[Flubbernugget]

The lurk doesn't come from the number of posts, but what's in them. And we have a deadline. We can't wait for Broodking.

2+ weeks to deadline. Not going to deadline lynch right now. Fearmongering noted.

It's not fear mongering. It's a damn good reason to not wait for Brood and find a second scum read. Where do you see me trying to say we have to deadline lynch

right now?

Misrep noted.

[Flubbernugget]

ITT- Kaboom stops thinking dogthoughts, flubber acts like an idiot, Xayzeck doesn't read, AP fails to realize we still have the same preferred lynch, and Brood still isn't dead.

The lurk doesn't come from the number of posts, but what's in them. And we have a deadline. We can't wait for Broodking.

We have more than two weeks. If Broodking has not made a noticeable contributions soon, then yes, we totally need to lynch him.

You have a good point on Brood. But that's not the point I'm getting at. TTH is waiting on Brood to do anything.

She can do other things while waiting on brood

[Flubbernugget]

AP, TTH, kabooom town.

Marquis lean town

. Flubber barely leaning.

Um, is it usual for someone to not fully town read themselves?

[Flubbernugget]

I haven't seen you place a single scum read on me this whole game. All I've seen is a retort to my claim that you were lurking. Enlighten me, please.

[Flubbernugget]

No shit I didn't have an opinion on him. I wanted to see him post. And I wanted to see Xayzeck post.

The fact that we had no activity from him and you still mention your criticism of him suggests a bus. Especially if you were assuming he was going to stay inactive the whole game.

Remind me what my reason for scum reading you was. Actually that might be too much of a discredit to your reads. Hmm...

[Flubbernugget]

No shit I didn't have an opinion on him. I wanted to see him post. And I wanted to see Xayzeck post.

But he did post. He pushed some nonsensical theory about Jingle and AngryPidgeon being scum for tenuous reasons, which ended with him getting wagoned in the first place.

Him dragging his feet on the follow up ended up being the nail in his coffin, but don't act like he never posted.

Cool. Because I didn't. I still wanted more.

The fact that we had no activity from him and you still mention your criticism of him suggests a bus. Especially if you were assuming he was going to stay inactive the whole game.

Remind me what my reason for scum reading you was. Actually that might be too much of a discredit to your reads. Hmm...

The characteristic "push someone as scum for nonsensical reasons" is clearly repeating itself here since

you can't even seem to be able to articulate why you thought I was scum in the first place. You thought I was lurking? That's not true, and we know that's not true from the posts I've made in this thread.

It's all here in black and white. If I was Broodking's teammate and thought he would be inactive the whole game, the solution would be to wait until someone who was actually active replaced him. This is what

you

were doing, not what I was doing.

Now that all the undeniable evidence points to you being scum, you're grasping at straws. You're flustered and it shows.

Okay cool. So you can't remind me of why I scum read you. Which kinda shows you're either not reading, or ignoring my point to further your agenda.

You are not scum for lurking. You are scum for

not scumhunting at all while you were waiting for Brood to do something

. It was a really cheap stall to not have to put any other reads on yourself.

[Flubbernugget]

Cool. Because I didn't. I still wanted more.

That doesn't even make sense. What are you talking about?

More activity.

Okay cool. So you can't remind me of why I scum read you. Which kinda shows you're either not reading, or ignoring my point to further your agenda.

It's on

me

to delineate

your

thought process?

I'm going to let that sink in for everyone.

Its on you to read the fucking thread.

No wonder I had nothing on TTH. Also lurking. But what's different from her is that it feels like she's using other's inactivity as an excuse to lurk, i.e. waiting to act till Brood is more active.

Sooo what are you trying to delineate here?

You are not scum for lurking. You are scum for not scumhunting at all while you were waiting for Brood to do something. It was a really cheap stall to not have to put any other reads on yourself.

Really? I haven't scumhunted? That's not what the flips say. And that's not what the activity in the thread says either since I did, and still do, have other reads.

Scumhunting and lynching scum are two different things. And voting for caled doesn't count as scum hunting.

[Flubbernugget]

Scumhunting and lynching scum are two different things. And voting for caled doesn't count as scum hunting.

I dunno, I think Caled votes are probably pretty protown at this point.

I sort of want to lynch Marquis though.

Protown? Yes. Scumhunt? Barely.

[Flubbernugget]

I read Marquis and AP going back and forth again. Why is there any speculation with the roles? I feel like theres some subtle role fishing going on. But that's just a gut feeling.

[Flubbernugget]

We should totes lynch TelltaleHeart though. The siren sings seductive songs. fortunately, I am immune.

That reminds me.

VOTE: TTH if I haven't already.

[Flubbernugget]

Nope. I totally didn't explain how I thought she was pushing shitty reads.

[Flubbernugget]

And then you tried to push shitty reads.

I know you're not this dumb. And I've seen you grill me a lot better than in this game. What the fuck are you doing?

[Flubbernugget]

Mhm. So you're still defending your reads on Brood and not your lack of reads elsewhere.

[Flubbernugget]

You're next if TTH flips scum.

[Flubbernugget]

flubber dont be an asshole

marquis it could be said that i am doing the exact same thing why not vote for me

If you know you are doing it what is making you continue to do it.

[Flubbernugget]

Marquis if your wagon gets rolling faster than mine I'm gonna hop on it.

[Flubbernugget]

Flubber, sheep me. TTH is town.

This isn't the wagon I had in mind. And TTH is scum.

@mod

are we due for prods/replacements yet?

[Flubbernugget]

This also accounts for the 5:2:2 possibility and that the pr's are heavily stacked.

Marquis is TTH still town?

[Flubbernugget]

I don't think it is, but that's all I'm saying. From your perspective, it adds up.

[Flubbernugget]

I could vote Kabooom Today.

you are standing on a very thin rope. Answers like this are only making your rope more thin.


p-edit: marquis is pokemon. Havent you seen that pokemon before?

2nd p-edit: lol caled, you remember that game?

3rd p-edit: is this your final answer ap?

You need more newbie games in your life dude.

[Flubbernugget]

Scum are more likely to provide justification than town?

AP, I know you're respected on this site and good at this game and all, but that doesn't even sound right.

Scum have to make their intentions less obvious than town, so yes, scum justifying things makes more sense than town justifying things.

[Flubbernugget]

Don't mind Kaboom, he seems to have drawn scum.

I kind of have a VI read on him. Like his logic is scummy but he seems well intentioned.

[Flubbernugget]

I'll go look for them.

Until then I'm taking Xayzeck's word for it and calling Kaboom scum.

[Flubbernugget]

^^Yet doesn't actually vote or try to pressure a wagon. Just makes an empty threat as a defense.

The reason it sounds like you need newbie games is because that's the only place it seems like it's 100% required to explain every read/motivation you have, and that seems like what you're trying to get AP to do.

But maybe I am wrong. How come when I said the same exact thing as AP in reference to Xayzeck, you brought no attention to it?

[Flubbernugget]

Ugh. Stop making me not want to lynch you. UNVOTE: to prevent derp hammer for now.

I still want TTH lynched. I'm not exactly sure what changed your mind here.

[Flubbernugget]

Ugh. Stop making me not want to lynch you. UNVOTE: to prevent derp hammer for now.

AP, I feel like I've become too much of a distraction for anyone to really get anything done.

Really, I kind of deserve it. I've been kind of sitting still and taking too long formulating something to say because I'm too busy thinking about why I've been getting votes. I've also found that it kind of poisons my reads. Think about it, my two scumreads are the people voting me. I'm automatically assuming that the people voting me have ulterior motives and that might not really be rational.

I don't mean to appeal to your emotions, I'm trying to be as matter-of-fact as possible. The situation is too far gone and I'm too far gone in terms of trying to retain any measure of objectivity when looking at this game. You should just lynch me and hit the reset button tomorrow. It will also force some Feirei to be accountable for her reads, which you seem to not want to do right now but might if you see my flip.

It's for the best.

Don't start lurking pls.

[Flubbernugget]

What does that even mean

[Flubbernugget]

Prod dodge.

No content.

Can we just rvs again or something?

[Flubbernugget]

Is that why you've been drinking?

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: xay

I did agree to that a little bit ago.

[Flubbernugget]

Marquis do you have scum reads unrelated to AP's claim?

[Flubbernugget]

My only paranoia on AP comes with the fact that caled was nightkilled.

Explain?

[Flubbernugget]

Mass claim you say?
Mass claim.
VT.

[Flubbernugget]

Wheres da scumhunt doe

[Flubbernugget]

I've already claimed, AP.

Well by joe, don't make me go look it up >.>

Anyways I'll try and give this game time tomorrow. I gotta run for now.

I claimed Vanilla Townie.

I don't know what I'm doing. Flubber, what are you thinking about anything Marquis had to say?

Same as AP. I don't understand why he's all setup spec and no reads.

I still wouldn't mind a lynch on you tho.

[Flubbernugget]

Enlighten me.

[Flubbernugget]

Reread.

Last 3 bullets I disagree with. But upon reading everything else I'm starting to see how rediculous the claim is. The mass claim of all VT's kinda helps this out as well, but I still really can't shake my scum read off of TTH.

[Flubbernugget]

with how long this is taking, there's either only one scum left or ap is part of the scumteam. I think the latter is true, but i also think ap is the only scum left

compromise with me here- ap cannot be allowed to go on with that claim

So basically you want lynch all liars?

This thread is making me incredibly thick, bare with me.

[Flubbernugget]

the "don't let him get to lylo" is my argument to you, as a compromise if you don't think he's scum.

We at least need a wagon going, and I don't see TTH going anywhere right now.

VOTE: AP

[Flubbernugget]

Wow. After AP's flip that was the last NK I expected.

Would still like a TTH lynch.

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: TTH