I literally fell asleep writing this post. this is my full case on CN. idgaf how long it is - I highly suggest you read all of it bc literally everything points to CN being scum.
ready?
1. Titus interactions
- Titus was hard defending CN from me ever since I came into the game. CN had several posts that were trying to defend Titus and/or attack ppl for attacking her: e.g.
487,
560. he was also one of the ppl pushing Titus/Trustworthy as a town pair at the start of the game:
154 "are you implying what I think you're implying",
156 (in response to Titus claiming it was anti town to explain it),
164,
170
2. at least one of {CN, pander bears} is scum
- the ABR, ML, pander bears, and CN wagons D1 don't work with both CN and pander bears being town.
3. D1 vote on magister ludi scum-designated mislynch
- self explanatory
4. his initial reason for scumreading me was the way I was pushing him. however, he said absolutely nothing during my entire mastin push, nor did he say anything when I was pushing him back on D1.
the narrative he's spinning here in order to explain this is:
i. despite thinking townies have doubt, he didn't question his town read on my slot until D2, despite the fact I was pushing him since back on D1. but if he was town, and was wary of pushes on him, I'd expect at least some comment about it back when it actually happened, and there's literally nothing - no "huh, are you actually scum?", no "you seem awfully confident", no fucking doubt at all.
ii. he completely MISSED my entire push on mastin, and is still claiming I wasn't pushing her. for this to work, he would have had to have missed all of my several posts where I push her, as well as the fact that my vote was on her as opposed to him, for p much the entire game day.
iii. he still hadn't committed to scumreading me until I had been pushing him for a while D2, despite calling my posts "grade a bullshit" and addressing me in a way that is very clearly hostile tonally for a while before that (e.g.
2963,
3034, but then in
3042 he's apparently still not reading me as scum)
iv. when I continue to pressure him about missing my mastin push and it became clear he couldn't answer it, his next defense was "bah, I'd do that as either alignment".
there is no fucking way all this could possibly be true. there is no town aligned logic that explains this, bc he is scum and his reason for pushing me is bullshit - he just made it up in response to me pushing him, in order to manipulate me into discontinuing the push.
5. most of the stances he took to back up his scum read on me are extremely shallow:
In post 3140, Chandra Nalaar wrote:OK, so it's not blatnatly fake, because it isn't fake, because I'm town. If you honestly believed it was blatantly fake, I would be a bigger scum read than mastin. And the "nuh uh" argument I just made is just about as valid as yours that my mindset is "blatantly" fake when clearly no one else thinks I am mind numbingly obvious scum.
there are 2 problems with this post:
1. as I said, just one thing being blatantly fake isn't enough to automatically make someone a stronger scumread than anything else. someone else might have done smth even more telling, meanwhile the thing that's "fake" might be the only reason I think a certain person might be scum. the logic here is way oversimplified and shallow as fuck.
2. he completely missed the fact that
I also thought mastin's posts were blatantly fake.
so even if this was correct, it still wouldn't apply here, bc I had thought mastin's posts fit the same criteria. this answer fails the logic test.
In post 3140, Chandra Nalaar wrote:I LITERALLY JUST FUCKING SAID
THAT I DIDN'T FUCKING MISS IT
AND IT WAS NOT STRONGER THAN YOUR PUSH ON ME
BECAUSE WITH MASTIN
YOU SOMETIMES LET HER POST WITHOUT SAYING OH MY GOD THIS IS SUCH OBVIOUS SCUM
AND YOU DON'T RUN AROUND PUSHING EVERY PLAYER WHO POSTS TO VOTE HER
LIKE YOU JUST DID TO PANDER AND BASICALLY EVERY OTHER PLAYER BEFORE THEM
I've already explained the problem with this post, but to reiterate: this answer fails the logic test. he claims I "don't run around pushing every player who posts to vote her" - however, he completely missed the fact I hardly had to put any effort into getting votes on mastin. not to mention, when I did have to push for votes, I did.
In post 3182, Chandra Nalaar wrote:This isn't that difficult. If you say someone is "obviously scum", by definition you can't be the only one saying so.
the implication of this is that it's impossible for anyone to hold the opinion anyone else is obvious scum, while everyone else has a town read on said person. this makes literally no fucking sense
In post 3472, Chandra Nalaar wrote:LOL
I knew someone would eventually try this, and I'm not surprised it was you.
First of all, let's not deny that you'd be trying to paint me as mastin's scumbuddy if she flipped scum. We all know you would be, so pretending otherwise is ludicrous. So, basically what that boils down to is "if you defend anyone else, you are scum". In that event, why didn't you call me scum for defending mastin before she flipped? And, more importantly, I'm going to have to suggest that if you believe this, you have never seen me play mafia before. I know you were in NY 169, and saw me try to throw myself in front of a bus to save Casso. So... what gives? Oh, right, you're scum is what gives.
the logic here basically goes like this:
i. there's no way he could WK someone as scum;
ii. if I was town, I would automatically remember him WK'ing Nacho in NY169;
iii. then I would somehow know he couldn't WK anyone as scum, as opposed to thinking he might be able to fake;
iv. since this is not the case, I'm scum.
does this make sense to anyone?
at the same time, he supposedly thinks I'm scum who is capitalizing on mastin townflip to make him look bad. however, F-16 was the one who brought up the possibility of scum WK'ing mastin, not me. he supposedly thinks I'm scum, was planning on pushing him as scum after mastin town flip, and then didn't actually push said angle after mastin flipped town because....... ?
it is highly unlikely he, as town, managed to go through all these stances and not realize exactly how half of them didn't work. he's full of shit.
6.
3141/
3142 - none of this looks like it was thought through at all - reads as scum coming up with reasons to scumread someone after the fact.
In post 3141, Chandra Nalaar wrote: In post 3139, pieguyn wrote:if we fuck around and lynch someone else today, I feel like tomorrow will basically be another day that entirely consists of "let's lynch mastin" and I don't feel like dealing with that. this is even more so the case if zmuffin gets killed.
hedging
the first post is two fold bad:
1. hedging is p much entirely a playstyle tell
2. his answer fails the logic test. he claims that I'm trying to look better in light of mastin townflip. question:
after all the noise I made about mastin being scum, how would ONE POST
3139 make me look any better if mastin flipped town?
it wouldn't. he is not actually thinking through this, bc he is scum scrambling to come up with a scum read on me.
In post 3142, Chandra Nalaar wrote: In post 3139, pieguyn wrote:a mastin lynch would also clear a lot of things up as opposed to a Tattletale lynch - OTOH mastin scumflip means pander bears is town.
>implying you aren't 100% certain mastin is scum
>you are clearly 100% certain I am scum
>but no you totally don't want to lynch me today
that makes sense
the 2nd post is weak as fuck - as I said before, there are several things that determine how good a lynch is that isn't just the strength of one's read on a player (e.g. momentum). the reasoning he presented here is extremely shallow, and he knows this.
on the other hand, when scum feel the need to make up a scumread on someone, they will generally use reasoning like this out of convenience. they'll take whatever posts happened recently and find a way to twist the evidence to make it look scummy, without actually thinking through, explaining, or trying to understand the mindset behind any of it. the way he went about his read here is p much exactly scum taking an approach like that. in particular, the nitpicking about who ppl want to vote/lynch is just a terrible angle and not smth I generally see from town. on the other hand it's smth I see all the time from scum bc it's convenient and requires literally no effort to point out or push.
7.
3182 is just..... god what the actual fuck. literally nothing in here at all is town.
I could run through the entire post and explain what problem I have with each individual part, but tl;dr: none of these actually address any of the arguments I was making. it's scum debate strategy 101.
in particular:
This isn't that difficult. If you say someone is "obviously scum", by definition you can't be the only one saying so.
You did bring up some reasons for that, and I pretty much completely trashed them because they were horrible reasons
bolded is just the worst line and i never see it coming from town. on the other hand, this is typical scum behavior - continually deflect and dodge, while acting like you actually answered all the points against you.
8. despite going on and on and on about how I'm scum and how my posts are "manufactured", he has done literally nothing to actually push a lynch on me.
from a town POV, if you think you're seeing smth in a consensus townread everyone else is missing, you don't fucking roll over and go to push a lynch on SKOT. you fucking make a bunch of noise about it and convince everyone to see the same thing you see.
however, that's not what he's doing here. look at his ISO starting from D3. there is literally no effort anywhere to try to get any votes on me, despite the fact he's been spending a majority of his time calling me scum. on top of that, there is literally no effort to even question ppl on why I'm town, or work with anyone else on the read on me at all.
this is, again, bc he is blatantly lying to push his scum read on me, and he knows I'll own his ass if he tries it.
incidentally, his other scumreads are SKOT and vezok, both easy targets. how the hell does this add up from a town POV? oh wait, scum look for easy lynches that don't take much effort, so it makes sense.
9. blatantly contradicted himself re: read on me.
he says in 3182:
In post 3182, Chandra Nalaar wrote:It actually is. Town don't do things that are "obviously fake" period, so I am forced to assume you are exaggerating
and it's p obvious based on his mindset throughout my entire push on him he thinks I'm full of shit. however, he then proceeds to vote Tattletale and claim Tattletale is "more likely scum than me". even now he's still pushing for a SKOT lynch over a lynch on me.
flipping this around, if he is capable of thinking my posts are fake but thinking Tattletale, and more recently SKOT, is more likely scum than me,
he has no reason to think me thinking mastin is more likely scum than him is scummy
. see a pattern?
not to mention, when you combine this with the mindset from 8, it literally makes 0 sense - he thinks my posts are fake, but apparently has at least 2 ppl (SKOT, vezok) as higher priority targets than me. lmao
10. there is hardly anything in his entire ISO that seems genuinely town motivated.
on a general level, when I read most of his posts I see a lot of words, but the actual content is extremely shallow. there are also a shitton of filler questions that have no followup and accomplish literally nothing. the very first town motivated thing I've seen him do was his effort in explaining his reads on pander bears and recently Mhork (and even then Kagami had asked him to do it), but before that, literally nothing.
I could go through his entire ISO to back this up, but I implore you to just do it yourself instead. for the first like entire page of the ISO, there's a complete lack of in-depth analysis on anything.
tl;dr: I don't see where the town reads on CN are coming from. he is really fucking obviously scum - literally everything (play, VCA, interactions, behavior, etc.) points to him being scum, and his push on me is consistently coming from a scum mindset.
now I need lots more votes on CN, and I want anyone who has a town read on CN to get in here and explain why and tell me exactly what in this post they disagree with. I literally have seen no good reasons for CN being town and I'm fucking tired of it. otherwise, sheep me plz
