Micro 376: Chosen Mafia - Game Over = Perfect Town Win

[Heartless]

Anti, I feel like you're trying to re-invent the wheel every time you sit down to read this thread. Let's get some stability going, I think that will be good.

It looks like the people you trust (what you call "constants") are Guilty Gunsmith and awestfie. From what you're posting, maybe TSO belongs in this group. I'm not sure what your thoughts are on that or if you even think it's important. That's something to consider, though. As for me, I agree with you on all of these.

That leaves: Josh_B, ZZZX, Lying Cat, BlueBloodedToffee, and Flubbernugget.

I see you're saying you don't

want

to sort through ZZZX and Lying Cat, but I'm going to say "tough". These are two key players that need work.

ZZZX is really hard to get a bead on, mostly due to his recent inactivity. I see his latest scum reads are Guilty Gunsmith, TSO, and Flubbernugget, but that was from page 12, so it's kind of old news. All we have now is his intent to put Flubbernugget at L-1 which was never followed up on.

ZZZX, your opinions on any current matters would be greatly appreciated.

Lying Cat is a tough nut to crack mostly because I'm naturally distrustful of them and anything I look at of sthar8's that I think looks town is swallowed up in a black hole of paranoia. I will say that I think his reaching out to Anti and TSO feels town and his frustration regarding awestfie's attacks come off as genuine to me.

That leaves Josh_B, BlueBloodedToffee, and Flubbernugget in the dregs of the reads list. I feel like BlueBloodedToffee is very

re

active and you're taking that as a scumtell. I'm thinking that might have more to do with personal play style, though. Flubbernugget has done nothing to change my opinion of him and Josh_B seems to be continuing the pattern in his ISO of not contributing much to the overall discussion.

-TTH

Votecount 1.27

Lying Cat - [2] - Guilty Gunsmith, awestfie
BlueBloodedToffee - [2] - Heartless, T S O
Flubbernugget - [1] - Josh_B
T S O - [1] - ZZZX
Guilty Gunsmith - [1] - Lying Cat
Heartless - [1] - BlueBloodedToffee
awestfie - [1] - Flubbernugget

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-08-25 14:39:13)

[T S O]

Sthar, I don't think GG is really viable today.

I'm also more sold on Josh/BBT anyway.

[T S O]

tth who are you scumreading?

[Heartless]

@TSO, Heartless- I'm not in tunnel mode, so don't ignore me. Talk to me about GG. We have a couple of days before compromise time, let's use them.

From what I'm gathering, if you boil your case down to the precipitate it's: "Guilty Gunsmith are pushing a TSO lynch for bad reasons. Specifically, ETL overreacted to TSO's perceived attack on AngryPidgeon's integrity as a player."

Since the discussion sometimes takes a very toxic turn, it's hard to say what emotions are "real" and how that's alignment indicative. You seem to think ETL's reactions were exaggerated, but

why

is this? Is ETL very protective? I simply don't know enough about ETL as a person to make these calls. I do know that if someone made a personal attack (or something I perceived to be a personal attack) on Antihero, I would have some choice words for them. I could also see how that kind of emotion can drive a vote.

Is there anything else other than that interaction that makes you think Guilty Gunsmith is scum?

-TTH

[T S O]

ETL and AP don't talk to me for ages, call me toxic, blah blah.
Sthar calls them out for overreacting.
ETL immediately asks me to talk to her.

I don't get it, bluntly.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Good lord ETL, are you just going to bullshit your way through the whole day?

LC, I think it's very hypocritical of you to criticize me for being a bit detached from this game due to outside reasons when swifty is scumreading you for the same thing.

You may not understand what's going on with me, but the least you can do is take a look at what I'm actually saying and not just make shit up.

Not that you're not good at it. The appeasing you're doing is intense.

Yeah. I'm so appeasing. You're seriously not even reading what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm bothering to fuck around with you.

But I forgot whether I'm an idiot or scum?

I know you're not an idiot, so why are you being dumb about me?

Is BBT really opportunistic for jumping on my wagon?

Yes.

And why are you not burning asewtfie to the ground for having aggressively stupid reasons that you know are bullshit?

I seem to recall you calling a certain someone a "hyperaggressive prick". Were they scum? Swifty isn't scum. She may be aggressive but she's obviously scumhunting and evaluating the responses she gets. She's definitely my strongest townread right now.

Do you need allies that badly?

I don't even know what this is referring to, but it's a huge misrep and you should stop.

ETL

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Sthar, I don't think GG is really viable today.

I'm also more sold on Josh/BBT anyway.

Josh looks town to me.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

ETL and

AP don't talk to me for ages, call me toxic, blah blah.
Sthar calls them out for overreacting.
ETL immediately asks me to talk to her.

I don't get it, bluntly.

I fixed that for you. AP didn't want to deal with you. I focused on others while he calmed down. After further evaluation, you look better, so I wanted to clarify your position. Not sure what's so confusing about that.

ETL

[Heartless]

tth who are you scumreading?

I'm currently scumreading Flubbernugget and Josh_B.

The major problem I'm encountering is ZZZX, because I'm also scumreading him. His ISO is pretty scant, but the fact that he manages to post to express intent to put someone at L-1 is very unsettling. It's not that he did it, it's the way he did it. He didn't

actually

put Flubbernugget at L-1, he just said he

planned

on doing it and then glibly left it at "discuss". I feel like it's a cheap maneuver to appear town.

We need to get more from ZZZX and I also need to talk to Anti about it. He probably has something to say.

-TTH

[Josh_B]

@Heartless, I'm actually fine with my vote. It's these two votes that I'm concerned about...

Lying Cat - [2] - Guilty Gunsmith, awestfie
BlueBloodedToffee - [2] - Heartless, T S O


Especialy considering that there are so many Vote Kangaroos.


Guilty Gunsmith, you are probably the chief. It took me a while to get it, but I think I'm going to jump off of any wagon that grows past two. At least for D1, and probably for D2. We can't no lynch, but I can un-voat.

I thought I got the game at first, but then I was like ok, I guess, I have to vote someone, and now I'm like, no I really don't. As long as the vote count stays low, I'm good. 3 votes are probably enough to lynch. Unless it's scum, and then they get a 2 vote boost on whoever they want. I probably won't be upvoting anyone past the highest number of votes, and I'm probably going to stay vote parked for the rest of the phase, unless it becomes more obvious that someone is scum.

@mod How will you decide plurality if two people have the same number of votes? If you send it to Random.org, Will players be included who have had the most total votes against them, the highest number of votes at thread closing, or the highest number of votes gained? [/bold]

[T S O]

Are you a Jester?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

oh boy.

[Josh_B]

tth who are you scumreading?

I'm currently scumreading Flubbernugget and Josh_B.

The major problem I'm encountering is ZZZX, because I'm also scumreading him. His ISO is pretty scant, but the fact that he manages to post to express intent to put someone at L-1 is very unsettling. It's not that he did it, it's the way he did it. He didn't

actually

put Flubbernugget at L-1, he just said he

planned

on doing it and then glibly left it at "discuss". I feel like it's a cheap maneuver to appear town.

We need to get more from ZZZX and I also need to talk to Anti about it. He probably has something to say.

-TTH

I'm not as concerned about ZZZX's intent post as I probably ought to be. But with the set up in mind, I find it more town than not. You and Guilty both jumped to other interests fairly quickly afterwords.

[Josh_B]

Are you a Jester?

No. Is this the same question as, Do you need to have a particular person lynched in order for you to win?

oh boy.

yeah boi!

[Lying Cat]

Each of these is individually indicative of scum:
- The in-thread hydra dissonance has been

extreme

this game.

- They went from town to scum on TSO over "he's talking to ETL about things too much" and "associations with an unflipped player" both of which are garbage.

- Then when he got defensive they shut off conversation by making a big deal about the 'you're terrible' comment.

- Discussion of policy lynching and how little they cared about TSO's flip minimizes responsibility for the wagon. See 'I don't care if he flips chosen townie'

- Their townread on us evaporated as soon as we started defending TSO. No early paranoia like I've seen in every other game with them, just a dump into the towns and then a dump back out as soon as it was clear we weren't agreeing with them.

- Their case on us for scum is functionally 'Chainsawing TSO' and 'OMGUS.' But now they're 'trying to figure TSO out' sooo....

- Have they ever actually called us scummy for anything? Go check. The closest is cherrypicking a post that jingle made in a scumqt once about how he didnt want to post in a game thread because he didn't want to ruin my plan. Talk with Anti about our activity in OC and he can tell you how strong that evidence is.

- The discrediting, however, is everywhere. Notice that ETL is playing peacemaker with everyone, going so far as to have rational conversations with their scumreads. Except with me. When Jingle posted suspicions the response was "that's dumb. get sthar in here." When I agreed with him, it was "get Jingle on the phone." Note the refrain of 'ur dumb' or 'grow up and learn to read' whenever I post.

- 544 is

really good

scumposting. ETL and I had a private conversation not long ago about how I constantly manipulate everyone as either alignment. She was also in a game where I almost beat anti by buddying and manipulating him. She's trying to turn that around on me; stoking anti's paranoia and painting anything I do as manipulative to isolate

me

. It's amazingly well done, and makes me proud to hydra with her.

- awfulstuffy's points on me are

terrible

. Like, I'm-mad-at-her-first-IC-for-not-quashing-that-shit terrible. They're also personally insulting,
and you've seen how ETL is when her friends get insulted. But GG ignores that vote, and even goes so far as to defend the progression, if not the reasoning. They're desperate to lynch us but they have nothing to go on. They want you and anti to 'compromise' on our lynch with five days on the clock, without ever having said why we're scummy. I'd have to check because ISO-ing them is difficult, but I believe that they had a similar reaction to BBT's vote, only calling it out once it had passed.

ETL and AP are

very good

at being scum. I'd like nothing more than for {heartless, lc, gg, tso} to be a townblock that destroys all scumz forever, but what I'm getting out of GG is

not

playing to a town wincon.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Their townread on us evaporated as soon as we started defending TSO.

who was a scumread at that time.

imagine that.

being suspicious of someone defending your scum read.

what world is this.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i'll respond to you shortly.

but you're being terrible.

misrepping me incredibly.

that is NOT. OK.

[Lying Cat]

LC, I think it's very hypocritical of you to criticize me for being a bit detached from this game due to outside reasons when swifty is scumreading you for the same thing.

That's not what I was saying. I apologize if you got that from my post. I think you're reaching for reasons to justify your play rather than the other way around. Hence, 'bullshitting.'

Yeah. I'm so appeasing. You're seriously not even reading what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm bothering to fuck around with you.

Because I'm pretty .

I know you're not an idiot, so why are you being dumb about me?

Why are you being so manipulative? And did you really think you could get it past

me

without comment?

Is BBT really opportunistic for jumping on my wagon?

Yes.

I mean, yeah he totally was. But you think I'm scum. Is he bussing me or what? How is he opportunistically jumping onto a scumwagon?

I seem to recall you calling a certain someone a "hyperaggressive prick". Were they scum? Swifty isn't scum. She may be aggressive but she's obviously scumhunting and evaluating the responses she gets. She's definitely my strongest townread right now.

I didn't call her scum. I called her a VI. I'm actually also townreading her.

But you're dodging the question. If you were scumreading anti and I came into the thread with "anti is totally scum because he has too many vowels in his name and only assholes have so many vowels in their name" you would tell me that that's terrible logic and also that I was being a douche. Yet you have no comment on 'scumread because you took a weekend,' because she's actively pushing my wagon and you're not, and you don't want to disrupt it.

I don't even know what this is referring to, but it's a huge misrep and you should stop.

It's not a misrep. From where I'm sitting it looks like you'd excuse any fallacy or hand out any townread just so long as that player was voting me.

[Lying Cat]

We need to get more from ZZZX and I also need to talk to Anti about it. He probably has something to say.

Z will be obvious come lategame. It's OK to leave him alone for now. If ETL and AP aren't being oppositional, they'll tell you the same thing.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Oh my god.

Stop.

~AP

[Lying Cat]

Are you a Jester?

Can you translate josh's post for me? IDK what he's saying.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Each of these is individually indicative of scum:
- The in-thread hydra dissonance has been

extreme

this game.

Have you met AP? Let me introduce you:

SE PRESENTE LA PALOMA ENFADADA. ESTA MUY WAFFLOSO.

Not only has he done the majority of posting in the early pages, but the both of us have been too busy to sync. Hydra dissonance is not a fucking scum tell and you should know better than that.

- They went from town to scum on TSO over "he's talking to ETL about things too much" and "associations with an unflipped player" both of which are garbage.

Huge misrep here. Initial feelings on TSO were town, very much so. I liked what he was saying. I don't know where you're getting "talking to ETL too much" or "associations with unflipped player", but that is not at all the reason I started to question my read on him. AP was scumreading him from the get go. I was finagling my time to try to talk to him about it. I tried to convince him how much I thought he was town. UNTIL I was asked to examine the TSO/BBT interaction, which I did, and found something extremely off there. WHICH I STATED, AND THUS MY VOTE FOLLOWED. It had absolutely nothing to do with any other player.

- Then when he got defensive they shut off conversation by making a big deal about the 'you're terrible' comment.

Yeah that's totally what happened. I didn't get mad at TSO for calling him terrible. I got mad at TSO for saying "You were

shit

in X game, and you're even worse here." No one shut down discussion about anything.

- Discussion of policy lynching and how little they cared about TSO's flip minimizes responsibility for the wagon. See 'I don't care if he flips chosen townie'

Again, misrepping. You selected a single statement out of the entire post, and say the entire scumread and vote on TSO is all about a policy lynch, which is flatout untrue.

- Their townread on us evaporated as soon as we started defending TSO. No early paranoia like I've seen in every other game with them, just a dump into the towns and then a dump back out as soon as it was clear we weren't agreeing with them.

I never put you in the town pile. FUCKING. EVER. Go find where I said you were town? As I've already said now multiple times here, and when it was occurring, AP was doing the majority of the posting early on BECAUSE MY LIFE IS FUCKING FUCKED RIGHT NOW OK. I didn't have a read on you. I very clearly said that multiple times in every one of my reads posts. We were scumreading TSO and then you come along and DEFEND OUR SCUMREAD. Of course I'm going to wonder why!

- Their case on us for scum is functionally 'Chainsawing TSO' and 'OMGUS.' But now they're 'trying to figure TSO out' sooo....

Yep. But you're still being a little scummy shitburger.

- Have they ever actually called us scummy for anything? Go check. The closest is cherrypicking a post that jingle made in a scumqt once about how he didnt want to post in a game thread because he didn't want to ruin my plan. Talk with Anti about our activity in OC and he can tell you how strong that evidence is.

If I felt it was that strong of a reason, I'd be screaming about it. I mentioned it once as a point of interest. I'm not scumreading you for your fucking activity.

- The discrediting, however, is everywhere. Notice that ETL is playing peacemaker with everyone, going so far as to have rational conversations with their scumreads.

Oh really? Like who?

Except with me. When Jingle posted suspicions the response was "that's dumb. get sthar in here." When I agreed with him, it was "get Jingle on the phone." Note the refrain of 'ur dumb' or 'grow up and learn to read' whenever I post.

Uh what? I never said anything like "get jingle on the phone".

And if you're town, you ARE being dumb. And you DO need to learn to read because you've got a ton of shit wrong and twisted here.

- 544 is

really good

scumposting. ETL and I had a private conversation not long ago about how I constantly manipulate everyone as either alignment. She was also in a game where I almost beat anti by buddying and manipulating him. She's trying to turn that around on me; stoking anti's paranoia and painting anything I do as manipulative to isolate

me

. It's amazingly well done, and makes me proud to hydra with her.

Omfg. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE FUCKING DOING TO THEM!

- awfulstuffy's points on me are

terrible

. Like, I'm-mad-at-her-first-IC-for-not-quashing-that-shit terrible. They're also personally insulting,
and you've seen how ETL is when her friends get insulted.

Am I hydrating with you? No?

But GG ignores that vote, and even goes so far as to defend the progression, if not the reasoning.

What? OF COURSE.

SHE IS A TOWN READ. YOU ARE NOT.

They're desperate to lynch us but they have nothing to go on. They want you and anti to 'compromise' on our lynch with five days on the clock, without ever having said why we're scummy. I'd have to check because ISO-ing them is difficult, but I believe that they had a similar reaction to BBT's vote, only calling it out once it had passed.

ETL and AP are

very good

at being scum. I'd like nothing more than for {heartless, lc, gg, tso} to be a townblock that destroys all scumz forever, but what I'm getting out of GG is

not

playing to a town wincon.

I swear to god, sthar, if you're town, you're being a little fucking blind turd and it's really annoying me, which just makes me think you're doing it on purpose.

I don't like lies.

And you are fucking lying.

I almost want to get lynched today so they can lynch your scummy fucking ass tomorrow.

Like.. DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG IT HAS BEEN since I've actually thought that shit??

Congratulations. You've achieved your goal.

ETL

p-edit: JESUS FUCKING CHRIST ANOTHER WALL YOU SON OF A FUCKING COCONUT.

[Lying Cat]

Their townread on us evaporated as soon as we started defending TSO.

who was a scumread at that time.

imagine that.

being suspicious of someone defending your scum read.

what world is this.

But the scumread on TSO has now evaporated... yet I'm still scum?

Also that wasn't the point. Your interactions with us this game have been markedly different from every other time we've played.

@AP- no. I'm discussing with heartless and tso. If you want me to stop replying to you guys, please stop cherrypicking my posts. If you think my case is utter crap, let TSO and Heartless tell me so.

I think you're faking being offended.

And if you aren't I'm sorry. But you've been catastrophically wrong about me before, and I never took it personally.

[T S O]

@Heartless, I'm actually fine with my vote. It's these two votes that I'm concerned about...

Lying Cat - [2] - Guilty Gunsmith, awestfie
BlueBloodedToffee - [2] - Heartless, T S O

Translation: I have a problem with any wagon larger than 1.

Especialy considering that there are so many Vote Kangaroos.

Translation: I have a kangaroo fetish.

Guilty Gunsmith, you are probably the chief. It took me a while to get it, but I think I'm going to jump off of any wagon that grows past two. At least for D1, and probably for D2. We can't no lynch, but I can un-voat.

Translation: I am not allowed to be on wagons with more than two votes for the first two days.

I thought I got the game at first, but then I was like ok, I guess, I have to vote someone, and now I'm like, no I really don't. As long as the vote count stays low, I'm good. 3 votes are probably enough to lynch. Unless it's scum, and then they get a 2 vote boost on whoever they want. I probably won't be upvoting anyone past the highest number of votes, and I'm probably going to stay vote parked for the rest of the phase, unless it becomes more obvious that someone is scum.

Translation: I have finally learned how to play Mafia. Votepark every day, and if the largest wagon is at L-4, putting it or any other wagon to L-3 is tantamount to idiocy. Scum have superpowers called "2 vote boost."

@mod How will you decide plurality if two people have the same number of votes? If you send it to Random.org, Will players be included who have had the most total votes against them, the highest number of votes at thread closing, or the highest number of votes gained? [/bold]

Translation: I'm advocating not reaching a majority.

[T S O]

I think your case is good, I like it a lot and agree with it a lot, but my view is going to be "great" and anti's is going to be "not great." you know that.