Mini 1595: WiFom City: The Inquisition - GAME OVER - THANKS!

[Unsight]

Confirm!

Now who here has played Witchhunt or a variation before?

I've never played a Witchhunt before and this setup is pretty far from what I'm used to. So many roles are capable of killing or protecting, it feels like we could have cycles where there's lots of activity all at once and then other cycles were very little happens. I've also never seen the "Last Stand" ability in a game. I'm not even sure how that's going to work out math-wise. If we lynch scum on Day 1 and Day 2 then we're down to 7 players on Day 3. That gives us only 2 days after to catch the final scum or lose. Barring the protection/extra life/angel stuff that I'm still looking over, that means 3 out of 4 lynches have to be spot on. That's pretty intimidating.

[Unsight]

I dunno, the cycles of activity thing seems pretty spot on. How'd you come to that conclusion, Unsight?

It's my gut feeling upon reading the sheer number of roles that have active abilities that oppose one another ( +lives and -lives ). Maybe they all cancel one another out, but maybe they don't. I'd call it swingy, but I don't know how many people know that word in a game context.

I would like a gravedigger claim in pregame for accountability purposes, and to aide the apprentice with their choice.

If I'm reading the Apprentice role correctly, they automatically learn the identity of Gravedigger or Judge ( their choice ). The Apprentice doesn't need a role claim. Ignoring that, any role could be found on town or scum. If the Gravedigger claims and dies, then their role could end up in the hands of a scum Apprentice. If the Apprentice is scum and the Gravedigger and Judge are not then having one role claim lets the scum pick the other and know exactly who to kill right off the bat.

[Unsight]

So far I'm really not liking fontisian.

The entire pregame was basically him rolefishing and attempting to buddy with Rubicon, Atum, Ika, and maybe Heel. fontisian flips scum and it's likely one of those is his first scum buddy and someone he more or less avoided is his other scum buddy.

More to come once I digest the posts made since last I read. In the meantime, I like this a lot:

VOTE: fontisian

[Unsight]

Unsight, why so quiet pre-game?

1. Availability. I'm thinking I will probably post more on weekdays than weekends or Friday nights.

2. I don't understand why people want the Gravedigger to claim Day 1. Rolefishing is just the worst thing ever to me unless it's National Mass Claim day. I've been quietly trying to figure out if this is a scum tactic that 1-2 are pushing and others are just sheeping or if that's actually a good idea for this setup.

[Unsight]

know what unsight might be GDer....

I may as well make it official and claim it.

My role is

Gravedigger

.

I think this is a mistake. I think the best outcome would be for the Gravedigger to say nothing Day 1, play the odds to survive the night, get at least one flip of info, and then take their chances on the following night(s). At the same time, I've asked way too many questions for it to be anything less than obvious and if I die today ( lynch or nk ) it would be worse for the town to not know for sure.


In other news,

ika's "I policy hammer at L-1" from Post 171 leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Per Atum's post, fontisian should have 3 on his wagon. More are welcome.

Jargo and ABR need to stop lurking and everyone needs to post more in general.

[Unsight]

Way to many nulls. Anyway, discuss.

You said your reason for voting fontisian was different from mine in Post 196. What is it?

Also, what about MadCitrus makes him scummy? Did you just want to make him orange?

[Unsight]

Actually, calling the Rubicon/ABR/Jargonaut scumteam with outside chances of ZZZX and Atum now.

What posts make you suspect Rubicon?

[Unsight]

Mod: I request a prod for Albert B. Rampage

- It's been over 48 hours since his last post.

[Unsight]

Question time!

If you could have picked a role, what would it be?

Are you having fun?

Where else (if applicable) do you play mafia?

Steak or ham?

Dirty Old Bastard.

Yup.

None anymore. This is my first game in 4 years. If you look at my wiki you'll notice all the games are from 2009 and 2010.

Steak.

[Unsight]

OK all caught up. Didn't miss much.

Vote: Rubiocn

All aboard the bus?

[Unsight]

Unsight, if you were debating on whether or not claiming gd would benefit town or scum why are you voting font for endorsing it?

Phone internet is the worst. I actually claimed GD in Post 226 which I think you missed.

Rolefishing in general is bad. Anything that gives the scum info that the town can't immediately use ends up hurting the town. That's why Mass Roleclaims in lategame are often good but Rolefishing is bad. I've never played this setup so I can entertain the idea of "Gravedigger claim Day 1 is a good" but when it's coming from someone who is also buddying on a massive scale? That's all kinds of bad juju. And you know fixes bad juju? A good lynching.

[Unsight]

what are your reads as well, i need soemthign to do here im getting board myself

No kidding. Half the players are never here due to V/LA or just lurkage. You can only read the same posts before you start thinking "Is that scummy? Or how about that? Maybe that's a scum tell."

Atum's whole "If you could have picked a role, what would it be?" is really scummy if you look at it in the light of "Tell me what role you're not" because then it becomes a more clever bit of rolefishing. But then I doubt myself by thinking "Is that really scummy or am I just that bored I'm seeing scum tells where there aren't any?" I don't want to tunnel on the people posting just because they're the only ones talking.

[Unsight]

so heres a quaetion:

does ZZZX vote look opertuistic?

If he was making an actual case probably, but voting people who are quiet to make them not be quiet can be useful. If a wagon formed and he stayed on then I'd be concerned.

[Unsight]

I'm not at 90% confident yet. I'm hovering around 82%.

I'm slightly leaning town on Grib, but otherwise at the same place from where I was before. Thoughts?

Outside of Grib and ika, do you have any reads you feel confident in so far?

[Unsight]

Also, fontisian has posted some more since you voted her, thoughts?

Basically more of the same. Post 240 is says all the active people are town and the Post 241, mostly, says the inactive people are scum. That's not scum hunting, that's covering your butt. And that's how most all her posts read--no scum hunting, using previous game meta to gain ground, and just befriending as many people as possible to avoid a lynch. I also like how she qualified a statement in Post 162 with "if I['m] town" too.

[Unsight]

Unsight: Are Rubicon and Atum inactive?

Basically more of the same. Post 240 is says all the active people are town and the Post 241,

mostly

, says the inactive people are scum. That's not scum hunting, that's covering your butt.

3. The picking at a minor wording arrangement was a way of discrediting my attack without directly engaging me. Simply put, it was a cop out.

Kettle meet pot.

[Unsight]

@unsight: I actually did catch your claim, I was just wondering about the reasoning behind your vote. I maybe get it now, but I can't get behind buddying part. Do you usually have a distaste for strong town reads? And what's the reasoning on your other reads?

It's empty content to me. Unless someone has an investigative role, it's all WIFOM. The only thing posting a ton of town reads does is make it look like you're active when you're not and waste my time reading them. Things I care about are: Who you think is scum, why, and where is your vote?

ABR starting a competing wagon on Page 11 which fontisian immediately jumped on is infinitely more interesting than a colored list of WIFOM.

[Unsight]

i'm feeling the first part, but not the second. I'm pretty sure font started that wagon.

Oh, so he did.

[Unsight]

I could go for switching to ABR. My biggest bad habit is tunnel vision. ABR has done literally nothing as far as i can tell. Jumped on an easy wagon withme (that had no explanation, either from him or others)

Ditto--minus the bit about ABR having done nothing. I really want to policy lynch ABR because I can't decide whether his play is annoying or annoyingly scummy.

I got the order of operations wrong on the Rubicon wagon wrong, but with the way font is going for the "Town Leader" angle as someone else put it I could totally see a Day 1 Font/ABR bus on Ribicon for early credibility. I was actually digging a Rubicon wagon and have been since Post 50 which was just plain weird but then ABR/font did their thing and that gave me all sorts of creepy crawly feelings so I've kept my vote on font.

The only thing about a fontisian - ABR - Rubicon scum team is that means Atum is not scum which just confuses me. I've had a light scum read on Atum, but every time I try to connect the dots they're just not there. It's worth ISO'ing him if you haven't ( you referring to everyone ), but I stand by the money lynch being fontisian both in terms of killing scum and getting information. ABR can be tomorrow.

[Unsight]

Well it's not.

so you knew what i was talking about.

VOTE: ABR

I was going to ask what this meant but, after rereading, I think I get it. I'll ask anyway though.

[Unsight]

The conf bias is strong in this one, I can almost taste it.

I asked you to tunnel me Unsight, what happened?

I did. I'm sure what you're fishing for here.

And since when do you suspect Rubicon is scum, Unsight c'mon.

My ISO should tell you.

Actually even more questions, what's wrong with post 50?

Go read Post 50. If you can't see what's wrong with it, this becomes a different conversation.

Also what does this mean?

In my Post 408, I thought ABR started the wagon and font jumped on it.

[Unsight]

In my Post 408, I thought ABR started the wagon and font jumped on it.

*406.

[Unsight]

I did. I'm sure what you're fishing for here.

*not sure

Words and I don't get along right now.

[Unsight]

This is really cool. This is one of those moments when you think something is going to happen and it happens and you're so proud of yourself.

I want everyone to watch the narrative as it happens:

Post 194 I vote fontisian. Buddying rolefishing, what-have-you. An early scum read and a nice place to put my vote.

Post 196 Atum agrees for reasons which come later. Good vibrations.

Post 343 comes. I read this one a few times. "How are we feeling about fontisian now? Maybe a little more town now? About ready to find a new wagon?" If Atum is scum and fontisian is scum, then it looks good for him to have been on fontisian's wagon but he's probably not willing to bus Day 1. I looked at this both ways, Town Atum kind of getting bored of the wagon and Scum Atum trying to softly pry me off his scum buddy. One of those just happened but I wasn't sure which.

POST 364 comes right after I answer Atum with a "No, I'm happy with my vote." At this point, I start getting really bad feelings. He's not outright calling me scummy, he's making it as nonthreatening as possible, but he's giving fontisian the "Can we flip this around?"

So that was on page 15. I'm thinking to myself, he couldn't buddy and pry me so he's gonna have to chainsaw me. Atum is gonna start poking at me and, whatever I say, he's going to wagon me. In my own Post 468 I note that Atum hasn't done it yet. It's trending in this direction, but it's not there yet.

Post 489 is the chainsaw. Prying failed, fontisian's wagon is gaining steam, and he's got to save his scum partner somehow.

And that's 2 out of 3. 1 left.

[Unsight]

POST 364 comes right after I answer Atum with a "No, I'm happy with my vote." At this point, I start getting really bad feelings. He's not outright calling me scummy, he's making it as nonthreatening as possible, but he's giving fontisian the "Can we flip this around?"

Actually he did straight up call me scum. He just didn't do it with a vote.

[Unsight]

What's wrong with 50?

Encouraging a claim by saying the scum

probably

won't kill the claimer.

Very icky.

[Unsight]

So I lost a decent-sized post to website errors earlier. I'll summarize.

I really wish ika wouldn't talk about knowing peoples' roles. I think that's basically helping scum figure out who's who and who's not who. I don't think it's a scum-tell, but I think it's bad for the town.

Atum: We're not lynching each other today. My read on you is based on fontisian being scum, your read on me is just wrong. As an out-of-game thing, I apologize to you for being condescending as heck in that other post. I should have chilled before hitting Submit.

Hiplop Wagon: blah blah need to reread blah blah will post thoughts after blah blah

PS: I hate hate hate

hate

walls of text.

[Unsight]

Bzzt#

All of the people on my wagon (except ika) have never played with me before. Every player not on me (except Honeybee) knows me.

I don't know what the point of this is supposed to be.

People who know you know what your scum/town meta is => You use that to your advantage as scum => WIFOM

[Unsight]

In other news, I hate Day 1.

[Unsight]

I don't like font's claim for 2 reasons.

- The setup doesn't say that the Priest knows the identity of the Acolyte. Acolyte knows the Priest but not vice versa.

- The most optimal thing a scum can do on the way out in an open setup is claim the most powerful town role because it would force a counterclaim.

REQUEST MOD CLARIFICATION ON PRIEST ROLE

This needs to happen before any more discussion imo.

UNVOTE: fontisian

[Unsight]

VOTE: fontisian

[Unsight]

I would like to take this moment to invite the real Priest, whoever they may be, to check me tonight.

Scum Jester?

[Unsight]

grib if you dont belive it why dont you vote her?

so we still up for day 2 mass role call?

I'm still not sure of the pros/cons of a Day 2 mass claim.

Then again, I might just be a little salty because my role immediately becomes worthless afterward.

[Unsight]

@Atum, ika

I confused "characters" with "cards."

[Unsight]

As far as the bomber goes, I say we hold onto it for tomorrow. None of my scum reads are solid enough to risk a potential misfire--especially since we don't get flip information.

[Unsight]

I don't really care who the Priest scans Night 1. Scum Inquisitor and scum Jester could both make the results questionable.

As for Rubi's "Scan me stuff..." For Rubi to pull this gambit as scum it means his partner basically has to be a scum Inquisitor and the town Jester can instantly out them both.

[Unsight]

Reread the setup for "shenanigans" (or whatever's the special card the first dead scum gets).

Oh.

[Unsight]

fontisian was Town Judge.

[Unsight]

VOTE: Honey bee

Blow up Mist7676.

Sounds like a plan to me.

[Unsight]

no we are bombing mist

you know this entire thing could be over if the trickers just revealed what trick he did (if any)

I agree with this.

If the Jester saved MadCitrus with the "Demon Trick" then there's nothing else I can see that could have screwed with the scan.

The other possibility is that the Angels saved MadCitrus, but I'm assuming the flavor of his death would have been different. I'm not sure if that's true or not. I'm not inclined to believe this possibility however. If Mist7676 knew Ika was lying scum then she'd have voted him immediately ( like someone else mentioned ). No one has stepped up to counterclaim Acolyte/Priest and I feel like the scum window to do that has passed. If she thought he was simply wrong then she would've called for a Scum!Jester using "Information Trick" while saying Angels protected MadCitrus which she didn't.

So yeah, I think Mist7676 is conf scum and we don't need flip information. Let's bomb her and lynch someone else.

[Unsight]

Also, Mist7676 being scum makes the Atum wagon ( Mist7676, Stigmata, ABR ) hilariously scummy.

[Unsight]

(1) Angel protection - I am following up further with Titus, but I can confirm that what Grib checked w Titus about angel protection being distinct in the flavor from other survivial was also confirmed to me by the mod.
(2) Demon trick (Jester)

I think this also means there's a strong likelihood that the Jester is town.

[Unsight]

@Unsight, atum, madcitrus, abr: Please discuss some of your reads/people you want to investigate tonight.

Our last two scum are in here: ABR, ZZZX, Grib, Atum, Stigmata, hiplop, Rubicon

I've got no strong town vibes from any of their actual play--just association stuff. I don't like Atum's play and I don't think it's very good for the town, but the wagon on him makes me think he's town. Rubicon I had a scum read on toward the end of Day 1 but since we know the Information Trick didn't happen I feel a lot better about his whole "scan me, scan me" routine which no longer looks like a scum gambit of some sort. The rest I need to reread. I may have mentally checked out for this day because we'll have more or less the same info but with another confirmed town/scum tomorrow. Depending on how Angel/Demon stuff works out this game could become a "By the numbers" where we investigate and then lynch scum or non-confirmed until we win.

As for who to investigate. I don't know. I hate directing a PR. If everyone actually agrees on someone then the PR plays chicken with the scum hoping they won't shoot the person everyone wants investigated. If no one agrees then you may as well have not asked. Anyone in that list above is fine to me. At this point I want to play like I'm already confirmed town because it feels that way to me but if ika wanted to double down on that then I'm fine with being scanned too.

The only other thought I have right now is whether or not we should bomb Mist today. The sooner Mist dies, the sooner the "Shenanigans" card comes into play. I'm too sleepy to analyze the risk/reward of keeping Mist alive 1 more day, but I figured it was worth mentioning.

[Unsight]

Grib and Atum are town based on their play

Examples?

[Unsight]

@Grib

Which of the following would you most prefer?

A: a puppy
B: a pretty flower from your sweety
C: a large properly formatted data file

Also what do you think of Stigmata and hiplop?

[Unsight]

Scum (+grib) gotta be in Stig/ZZZX/ABR/Grib

You are now a Day Vig with 1 bullet. Which of those 4 do you shoot and why?

[Unsight]

Scum (+grib) gotta be in Stig/ZZZX/ABR/Grib

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

[Unsight]

Top.

[Unsight]

Damn it.

[Unsight]

Scum (+grib) gotta be in Stig/ZZZX/ABR/Grib

You are now a Day Vig with 1 bullet. Which of those 4 do you shoot and why?

i want to extend this to everyone, outside of mist who would you shoot and why?

name 3 people.

ABR then ABR a second time for good measure. Then Hiplop and maybe Stigmata after.

ABR's play is scum at worst, anti-town at best. In the past month he hasn't done an ounce of scum hunting. He's just going to coast for as long as we let him.

If you ISO Hiplop and look for ABR, you'll notice Hiplop's association with ABR in every or almost every instance is "Yeah, I don't like him... but let's focus on someone else." If ABR flips scum then Hiplop needs to die. If ABR flips town then I might skip Hiplop and go onto Stigmata.

In light of Demon Trick and Mist immediately boarding the Atum wagon, I don't really like either of Stigmata's scum reads on Rubicon or Atum. Boarding the Atum wagon that already had 3 votes without giving reasons isn't cool either.

[Unsight]

Why would my death be especially informative?

In light of Demon Trick and Mist immediately boarding the Atum wagon, I don't really like either of Stigmata's scum reads on Rubicon or Atum. Boarding the Atum wagon that already had 3 votes without giving reasons isn't cool either.

I'm scumreading Rubicon? News to me. Also, if you actually were reading my posts you'd know that (1) I didn't know that Atum had other votes on him (voting him was a decision I mostly made overNight.) I guess I can't prove this, but

I completely missed ika's claim

at the time and I had misread and

thought Honey Bee was claiming a diff role

than DOB and thought she was dumb for asking to be lynched, (2) why I voted him.

Your vote on Atum: 1121
ika's Claim: 1126
Honey's Claim: 1154

You didn't miss ika's claim and you didn't think Honey was claiming something else either. Neither of those two things had happened at the time of your Atum vote.

I can see where you might get the timeline confused if you're reading backward to justify a wagon vote though.

( Also my mistake on the Rubicon thing, I think I misread that post in your ISO where you quoted font 3 times as your read on him. )

[Unsight]

unsight has anyone mentioned abr for more than a few lines?

look at his game dude

It's never too late to start.

[Unsight]

Also I'm bored and want more people to talk to.

[Unsight]

Hey Rubi, I'd still like some explanation of your meta read on Atum.

[Unsight]

Not as much detail to that meta read, but when Atum was on my scum team in the last WitchHunt game we played, he posted a lot of awkward one-liner posts, random questions to people about things they've already answered, etc. His posts were disjointed, not part of a consistent thought progression. I haven't picked up on that here.

That's good to know. I agree with the assessment as well. His play has been very much the opposite of what you describe.

[Unsight]

does anyone want to comment on rubis possible scumslip i pointed out?

I didn't read that as knowing they were scum, just calling one of his two biggest suspects scum--see post 1336 where he listed ZZZX and ABR as his biggest suspects.

I think my catching Stigmata outright lying in 1372 is a bigger thing. It irks me to no end that I caught that and then Stigmata goes on V/LA for two weeks which probably means replacement.

[Unsight]

Just FYI, it's really unhealthy to claim someone's using VLA for game reasons, and also knowing Stigmata I would not even consider at the slightest that she'd replace out / VLA for game reasons. I would be genuinely shocked if she went V/LA and then replaced out for game reasons, even in extreme cases (she's scum with someone who outright game-throws and a mod refuses to close the game).

VLA is VLA. If it's an issue of getting a response before day ends we can just use an extension.

Uh, I didn't. I just said it irks me that I caught her and she's gone/will be replaced. Anything beyond that is your own interpretation.

[Unsight]

This was a weird game.

I was so excited to have a power role when I joined.

Then the next thing I read in the thread is "GRAVEDIGGER MUST CLAIM."

I was very -_-

[Unsight]

Unsight: you did your part well tbh, you died sooner then expected but really set the table for scums downfall

I guess.

This game feels kind of unsatisfying because it devolved into Follow the Cop.

Good game to everyone all the same!