dear lord
he didn't even pick the role himself
In post 653, Saki wrote:his predecessor didn't even claim it and he claimed it on his own
In post 655, Saki wrote:I mean come on "rolecop = scum so ZZZX dies" is pretty much absurd bullshit if you consider the setup there are perfectly valid reasons for a townie to pick rolecop, esp as second in pick order
1) like, depriving scum of the role 2) and testing claims and being an actually useful town investigative role because PR brackets are somewhat indicative of alignment eg. Cop vs 1-Shot Redirector One is obviously town and the other isn't ou could say that 'well, scum might choose to be cop just to wifom' and that's utterly stupid because scum can take 1-shot redirector and claim cop and have noone know the difference
In post 657, Regfan wrote:In post 653, Saki wrote:his predecessor didn't even claim it and he claimed it on his own
He didn't "claim it on his own", he was caught having it and had no choice but to confess to it really.
In post 431, Regfan wrote:Hoping and think I've made the right move here because it's very likely one of Elmo/ZZZ is a scum rolecop that we need to sort out.
In post 657, Regfan wrote:In post 655, Saki wrote:I mean come on "rolecop = scum so ZZZX dies" is pretty much absurd bullshit if you consider the setup there are perfectly valid reasons for a townie to pick rolecop, esp as second in pick order
1) like, depriving scum of the role 2) and testing claims and being an actually useful town investigative role because PR brackets are somewhat indicative of alignment eg. Cop vs 1-Shot Redirector One is obviously town and the other isn't ou could say that 'well, scum might choose to be cop just to wifom' and that's utterly stupid because scum can take 1-shot redirector and claim cop and have noone know the difference
Taking rolecop as #2 on the draft is something that objectively makes a lot more sense coming from scum and thereforeisscum motivated and a good indicator of alignment. For 1) If this was the case then taking backup would be the move and given that he claimed rolecop and not backup this reason is automatically eliminated and as for 2) scum generally don't actually fake claim in this, they claim the role they have and yes that means scum don't pick the best role possible for themselves in most cases. Then there's the addition for it to be useful you'd have to have them already claimed, then investigate them and it ends up being a very useless role. Town #2 on the draft has a lot stronger roles they should be taking whereas scum taking rolecop as #2 makes sense.
In post 657, Regfan wrote:As for your whole "Regfan would not have let a ZZZX lynch slide" and "their votes were opportunistic", Iledthe lynch on him and it wasn't just based on rolecop=scum so perhaps actually read the god damn game.
Why would you be any less suspicious of Anatole over ZZZX if you used the logic "rolecop=scum" to lynch ZZZXIn post 658, Siveure DtTrikyp wrote:Saki, depriving scum of the role still means you can pick backup. There also aren't many claims to test - by the time massclaim happens there's no more nights. And also, "this pair has an obv-town pick and a obv-scum pick, but that pair doesn't." Tbh, I'd probably actually have been less suspicious of him had anatole claimed it, or had zzzx not replaced in.
In post 659, Saki wrote:Taking rolecop as #2 as scum doesn't even FIT optimal scum play
You'd rather take 1-shot redirector to make sure there isn't a town Cop
or roleblocker to make sure there's not a doctor
or NEIGHBORIZER because scum neighborizers are hilariously strong EVEN in an open setup where scum neighborizer is possible
or jailkeeper to prevent trackers/lock down a claimed town pr
or even one of the killing roles over rolecop because there's just so many stronger picks than standard scum rolecop
AND if rolecop pick is scum-motivated because scum play logically, then it's ALSO logical that scum would never actually claim rolecop
WHAT KIND OF SCUM ROLECOP WOULD CLAIM ROLECOP OVER UB WHEN THEY KNOW THAT THE ROLE UB IS POSSIBLE BUT DOESN'T EXIST?
"scum generally don't actually fake claim in this"
SCUM FAKECLAIM 100% ABOUT BEING FUCKING ROLECOP
Saki wrote:Why would you be any less suspicious of Anatole over ZZZX if you used the logic "rolecop=scum" to lynch ZZZXIn post 658, Siveure DtTrikyp wrote:Saki, depriving scum of the role still means you can pick backup. There also aren't many claims to test - by the time massclaim happens there's no more nights. And also, "this pair has an obv-town pick and a obv-scum pick, but that pair doesn't." Tbh, I'd probably actually have been less suspicious of him had anatole claimed it, or had zzzx not replaced in.
There is no gray area in "rolecop=scum"
There was no gray area about your intentions behind your vote
Why are you saying that there is, now?
[quote="In post 658It's also kindof annoying that zzzx flipped town b/c I wouldn't ever agree with going for rolecop because it's way too slow.
In post 659, Saki wrote:Well that's big fat lie #1.He doesn't have to listen to you, nor the people that pressured him to claim.I read your post. You knew that Venrob chose Universal Backup and didn't get it so you looked for a Universal Backup in somewhere else. So you knew that one of Elmo/ZZZX had to be Universal Backup.
In post 659, Saki wrote:But You Actually Fucking Assumed That a scum rolecop would claim rolecop because there's obviously another rolecop to confirm that he is indeed a rolecop dude, what the hell? AND here's a) way better scum picks than Rolecop as second pick and b) no actual fucking reason to reveal to us the information that Venrob went for UB and failed because its just hilariously obvious rolefishing
In post 659, Saki wrote:Taking rolecop as #2 as scum doesn't even FIT optimal scum play 1) You'd rather take 1-shot redirector to make sure there isn't a town Cop 2) or roleblocker to make sure there's not a doctor 3) or NEIGHBORIZER because scum neighborizers are hilariously strong EVEN in an open setup where scum neighborizer is possible 4) or jailkeeper to prevent trackers/lock down a claimed town pr 5) or even one of the killing roles over rolecop because there's just so many stronger picks than standard scum rolecop
In post 658, Siveure DtTrikyp wrote:Okay, so I was thinking beforehand and this is roughly what my thoughts were. I think I probably used the nk wifom to excuse a gutread on flubber. Actually, it's kinda weird that everyone would be lurking on the scumteam. Yeah, that's actually 3 scum in like 4 players... That's too easy... I really need to re-evaluate... But this doesn't mean saki is a bad vote."
In post 661, Siveure DtTrikyp wrote:The answer to these is that scum don't play logically.
In post 661, Siveure DtTrikyp wrote:I'd have been less suspicious because of your question - why do scum claim rolecop? I'd assumed scum-zzzx just didn't understand the setup so claimed his actual role instead of fakeclaiming. If there was no replacement he'd have to have some sort of understanding of the setup just to pick a role.
Slow is just slow - by what I mean in the case of scum rolecop - it needs to hit a pr, then you need to shoot the pr the next night to actually deal with them. Jailkeeper or roleblocker just stop a pr right away.
In post 662, Regfan wrote:If he refused to claim he'd have been lynched, end of story and if he lied and stated that he didn't have rolecop then it'd be a case of "One of Elmo/ZZZ are scum" which is simple to work out not to mention that #1 picks role choice is obvious (And it's not rolecop) meaning he'd have been lynched.
In post 662, Regfan wrote:There's serveral reasons why a scum rolecop will claim rolecop over claiming backup with the largest being that backup is test-able, if vigs the first role lynched/dead and backup can't shoot with a vig shot they're confirmed to be scum A) I disagree and B) I revealed it because it made a lot of sense for there to be a scum rolecop above and it's a role that needs to be caught very early on not to mention that Venrob had fucking outted the information himself in several softing posts.
Again read the god damn game.
In post 662, Regfan wrote:1) Is a stupid pick because it's 99% likely to be gone and if it is you're left with nothing, 2) Is an okay pick I think there's several draft positions that point towards scum wanting tog et rolecop before roleblocker 3) Disagree strongly, neighbouriser is not stronger than rolecop, 4) Same thing as #2 and 5) Killing roles are problematic for scum to take generally. So no, you're wrong there's lots of instances where scum taking rolecop as #2 makes sense.
In post 666, Saki wrote:Rolecop: insta-lynch, Universal Backup: not instalynch. with luck, may survive, even get a good town role, be conftown as doctor or jk or something
In post 667, Saki wrote:you make me cringe
In post 668, Regfan wrote:The fact that you're pushing "If he claims rolecop he gets instant lynched therefore he's town" is one reason why scum would claim rolecop, holy christ.
In post 669, Saki wrote:In post 668, Regfan wrote:The fact that you're pushing "If he claims rolecop he gets instant lynched therefore he's town" is one reason why scum would claim rolecop, holy christ.
it's playing against fucking scum wincon by your logic so scum would never actually fucking claim rolecop
In post 663, Regfan wrote:In post 658, Siveure DtTrikyp wrote:Okay, so I was thinking beforehand and this is roughly what my thoughts were. I think I probably used the nk wifom to excuse a gutread on flubber. Actually, it's kinda weird that everyone would be lurking on the scumteam. Yeah, that's actually 3 scum in like 4 players... That's too easy... I really need to re-evaluate... But this doesn't mean saki is a bad vote."
I'm not following this at all, walk me through it again, what I'm getting from it is that you wanted to make up reasons for your vote (Why? What's the point of doing that) and that the person you were planning on doing it on was Flubber (So why did you not go ahead and do that on him, why Saki?).