NY 177: Simple Complexity (GAME OVER: Scum Wins!)

[Josh_B]

CONFIRM. nac

[Josh_B]

If everyone that I've played with before RVS's me, it will be an epic RVS flashwagon.

[Josh_B]

this logic.

we need to lynch reinoe, he is too trolley.

[Josh_B]

Do I vote the person I know is useless and will not help the game no mater his alignment or do I joke vote....???

I don't know how he's useless, PerV was pretty good in revolution.

[Josh_B]

eads and reached the wrong conclusion before, so there is that.

Only

town

time will tell.

[Josh_B]

eads and reached the wrong conclusion before, so there is that.

Only

town

time will tell.

You're not Zabiano Domingo Rodriguez.

Why do you have his avatar?

WHO?!
Tell him that 1989 called and they want their avatar back. And I'll bring an army to come and get it.

[Josh_B]

kthx

I thought you were talking about this guy.

[Josh_B]

Elyse, I'm skeptical of you. So.. Let's get this shit out of the way. I'd rather just tool for a moment.

[Josh_B]

VOTE: RoyalApe
Why did you choose OkaPoka over Aeronaut or farside?

Do you think Aeronaut and farside want to lynch the person they're voting for?

If not, then what about OkaPoka's vote makes you think he actually wants to lynch reinoe?

It was the first vote of the day.

If I'm poking somebody for being anxious, why would I vote for people that were after Oka?

Are you defending Oka? Do I need to be poking you instead? Hmmm?

VOTE: RoyalApe
Why did you choose OkaPoka over Aeronaut or farside?

Do you think Aeronaut and farside want to lynch the person they're voting for?

If not, then what about OkaPoka's vote makes you think he actually wants to lynch reinoe?

It was the first vote of the day.

If I'm poking somebody for being anxious, why would I vote for people that were after Oka?

Are you defending Oka? Do I need to be poking you instead? Hmmm?

I thought you were voting Oka for being quick to want to lynch someone? Why do you think he's anxious?

Oh dammit Elyse. He answered your freaking question. You responded to it with your own made up reason. It was a damn RVS vote. Now you are like "fuck the reason you told me, the answer is one of the choices that I'm giving you, bitch!" royalape was right to not respond to your dumbass question because you keep asking it, and he already answered.

VOTE: elyse

[Josh_B]

@Josh
Look at my post and tell me which question that is an answer to.

He already pointed it out to you, so I'm wondering what it is that you are trying to get at.
Q: Why did you choose Oka?
A: Because Oka made the first vote
Q: Did you vote OkaPoka for wanting to lynch someone too early or for being anxious?
-NO.

It's clear that he has equivocated his "Anxious to lynch" statement with "first to vote"
The second question that you are asking is now

clearly

a false dichotomy. because even though he answered why he voted Oka, the only answers you are willing to accept are the two choices that you are giving him. And it's not as though you just asked for clarification and moved on. You're pressing him to say what you want him to say, as if you are some sort of child service worker.

[Josh_B]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: elyse

Why am I voting psyche? unless someone else is making me.

[Josh_B]

Oka what is that strange push on me? Like literally the questions you asked me are more made to frame me as scum compared to help guessing my alignment.

Seriously, is this a push? I'm guessing your alignment because you didn't give the information that you said you have. before you start spewing that the info you have is bannable, ask wake in your PM if it's ok. How does asking you to hold to your promises frame you as scum?

[Josh_B]

Not speculating on set up. Tree's gambit's necessitate that he is either lynched or investigated. Being that lynched is not specifically preferred, I suggest that he be investigated.
His gambits from a town mindset prove that he is Vanilla. His gambits show that he can neither DayVig, nor be mod confirmed. I can think of at least one inherently scum role that would encourage a player to act in a way that would cause them to be investigated, Can you?

[Josh_B]

Booo. This is The Light.

Catching up now. The Light was an alt of mine. It served its purpose.

Hey, the whole team is here.

[Josh_B]

@Josh, Reinoe, Titus, TSO, & Elyse.
Is it just me or is notsci doing the same thing reinoe was doing to titus in mini 1579?

I have NotSci as town independently from majiffy. Maybe I should ISO.

[Josh_B]

pool playing Marco Polo and you're that asshole who's shouting polo from the chair on the side.

UNVOTE:


I'm sorry, I don't have very many reads in this game. I'm behind since the last post I made. I should be able to catch up around 11 or so.
I remember thinking that farside is suspicious. After I consider that more, I'll probably be on the tree wagon.

[Josh_B]

Ok. I read as much as I'm probably going to. Perhaps I'll read more to see how things developed. Like I mentioned earlier, Farside seems suspicious, so.... I isoed Farside.
And then I pressed ctrl-f and searched for "tree."

104 results it returned with. Farside defending tree as town in every post. That is a lot of fucks to give about someones alignment on D1.


Do you know who knows the alignment of others on D1?

not surprisingly enough, Tree actually thinks that farside is town.

Don't go putting words in my mouth now. I see some players like Elyse and farside22 posting things and being town but then I also see a lot of fluffy-sounding posting.

I've also liked how farside seems to be thinking through things completely. I can see a clear thought process in her posts which means she's definitely trying to figure things out.

VOTE: tree

I'd probably vote Farside first, but he's V/la, and it's kind of a jerk move to lynch someone while they're gone, but scum is scum.

[Josh_B]

Hypothetical.

There's a scum

Let's just call him Aeronaut

He softclaims a role.

We make him claim

He claims tracker.

Now, we have a townie, lets just call him jimmy

Jimmy's a tracker and CCs him

We have confscum now!

Did this happen, or are you still just trying to get Aeronaut to claim?

[Josh_B]

Um I am going after who I thin is scum... with decent reasoning

Who do you think is scum? Because I see a blanket attack on everyone that is on the wagon, and arguments with whoever will disagree with you.

[Josh_B]

Why specifically RB?

+1. notsci, I think you have created a ridiculously specific scenario, and I don't see any information that would support your claim.

[Josh_B]

I'm Counter Claiming Role Blocker.

VOTE: Aero

[Josh_B]

I have seen town pr in a nb. And instead of Aero giving full claim he can just say whether he is rb or not. Or I can do it myself.

If you wanted to say it yourself, you should have called out NS for role fishing. Since you didn't I can assume that you were just going to let the claim ride.

Now, who is the other person in the neighborhood?

[Josh_B]

Outing the other person in your neighborhood will be beneficial if you are town... or you can let the rest of the DP ride.

[Josh_B]

I'm also going to say that I'm not in a neighborhood. and keep my vote where it is.

[Josh_B]

Alright, I actually don't agree with Aegor here. Elyse and NS helped, but ultimately it was my decision to claim. I don't understand why Josh would claim. That's not anyone's fault but his own.

It's easy to know why I claimed.
Gameplay says that he and Aero are on a hidden team and there is one more person on the team with them.
We already know that Aero is a PR.
NotSci claims that the PR is Role Blocker,
Gameplay seems upset that Aero's role is outed, and doesn't deny the RB claim.

I am actually a Role Blocker- This is a two for one special, even if I die in the night, and the third member isn't identified, we have two known scums, that can be vigged or PL'd in succession.

[Josh_B]

This is a Closed Setup. Players won't know exactly what PRs are at play, if any.

Ugh ye this and something else bring me to the idea it's mountanious. Also Wake basically wants to make only mountanious games so.

Speculating about setup like a boss.

Also, this should be lynched. How can you speculate mountainous if you know that you are in a neighborhood with a PR.

Role Fishing

[Josh_B]

josh I don't think he had claimed already by the post you're quoting. that was the very beginning of the game almost.

Ok then I have some questions. When are neigborhoods typically open, and do neighborhoods typically have daytalk?

[Josh_B]

They begin at game opening?

Also this, http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Neighbor
Thus, Neighbor is a fairly low-tier

power role

that amplifies the skill of its players

[Josh_B]

Aw gee princess I didn't realize I was being unfair.

Let me rephrase that.

What exactly is Elyse lying about and why is it important?

Because not only am I not sure what you're saying she's lying about, I have no idea as to why I should care.

Mirawk if you keep calling Elyse princess, I'm probably going to scum read you. You know that Reinoe did that last game to get her all worked up and it helped us get her lynched even though she was town.

[Josh_B]

I want to add this for no reason to

GAMEplay.

In the games that I've seen gunsmith, there is usually a specific reason for having it. Like, there is a Godfather. Or There is a scum doctor(I've never actually seen this), or there are multiple factions. Being that there are multiple factions, a gunsmith isn't automatically town.

[Josh_B]

multiple factions is confirmed?

well if there is a neighborhood. but I haven't seen anyone else admit to being in it. I guess the neighborhood doesn't really qualify as a separate faction.
But if someone slipped, say Gameplay or Aero, about there being a second thread open for the game, A gunsmith could check to see if the outed participants have guns and confirm or deny that the neighborhood exists.

It seems really odd that the gunsmith would actually be in the neighborhood, it takes away from the integrity of the investigations. A cop would have to investigate, a role cop would have to investigate, or a watcher/tracker would have to confirm him. It couldn't be someone else in the neighborhood, especially if there is a possibility of scum in the neighborhood.

[Josh_B]

A neighbor can also have any other PR.

I'm not saying they can't. I'm saying that - I don't know what I'm saying.
Back to lynching tree? OK.

[Josh_B]

Is there any danger to at least wagoning him?

Not enough lynches to kill all of scum in one day.

[Josh_B]

Oh, I know, Aero will you lynch tree or investigate him? This could really solve the issue of who is doing what.
And then we could all get along to lynch Gameplay. He's in a neighborhood, but for some reason thought this game was mountainous. LOL WUT?

VOTE: Gameplay

[Josh_B]

Josh you are blind and stupid. I already said that Wake wanted to make a mountabious nb setup and that is from where I got my theory. Also a neighborhood and mountanious can go together. So try again.

Elyse's description of me earlier in the game is exactly how I feel right now. But seriously, I'm tired of you and Titus arguing about whether or not we should or shouldn't lynch Aero while the game in itself goes no where.

Obviously it should be clear that Titus believes that both you and Aero are lying about the Gunsmith claim. I also believe that. But it seems like most everyone else is hoping that this claim business is going to work itself out. I'm not sure how it's going to work itself out, because ultimately it is going to require a lynch of some sort to prove or disprove the claim.

But at the same time, the reasons we should or shouldn't lynch tree, oka, tn, and texcat are getting lost in background and will have to be moderately rehashed moving forward. At best, the other town will spend hours ISOing each player for better reads and rereading the DP for context, at worst this DP is so cluttered that town will forget who they were voting for and why, and scum will slip away to victory.
In this superlong 2,000+ DP1, which do you think is more likely to happen? I just finished a 24 player game, and I don't remember DP1 being filled with this much nonsense. God forbid that Farside was actually town, whoever replaces him is in for a nightmare. Let's get back on track people.

Although this is a false dichotemy, can we at least get some input on who you think is the higher priority between

Aero(who is possibly fake claiming, along with gameplay), or tree (who purposely fake claimed twice)

Regardless of whatever else has happened, I think these two are the only serious lynch possibilities for this DP and I'm actually fine with either one of them. Truthfully, I think I'm leaning toward tree. But I'm caught up in the moment right now.

[Josh_B]

Good Job at being town Texcat. I'll vote for any of those three if we can get a consensus.

[Josh_B]

Good Job at being town Texcat. I'll vote for any of those three if we can get a consensus.

If you really think anyone is going for this after texcat's major scumslip you're gonna have a bad time.

What was his slip again? I didn't really look at him until he made that post, and my first thought was "oh, look@ this buddying MF." and ISO'd him. Everything that I see there seems to be on the up and up. Plus, I wasn't very involved earlier in the game. But now I'm starting to think that what he said may have been twisted to fit an ulteriour agenda.

Also, the things that he's saying are not things that he hasn't said before, so he's either a tunnely bad ass, or town. And by his low post count, I'm willing to say town.

[Josh_B]

Prod dodge.

Tell me when were lynching tree.

Tell me when you are going to put your vote back. Tree lynch seems the most reasonable.

VOTE: tree

[Josh_B]

oh, I'll still vote you. I just need to point something out, and get a reaction. It could either help me feel better about the way I feel, or alert me to something that I was over looking. Either way is fine.

Gameplay-What do you care? Were you happy with my vote on you, and did I make you sad by taking it off?

[Josh_B]

@wake, your vote count is incorrect. I did not vote for myself. I voted for Oka.

VOTE: oka

Stop doing that. I don't like it when my town reads vote my other town reads. And I don't like second guessing myself either.

[Josh_B]

you really shouldn't lynch me or psyche

there are very good reasons to lynch texcat

What are these good reasons?

[Josh_B]

Marquis, if you were going to be tree in this game, why switch it up?

[Josh_B]

im pretty obvtown though

so was farside!

someone link me to anything that comes close to resembling a good reason for voting someone and ill consider it

How? what have you done that is obvtown? What is your stance on a tree/marquis wagon?

[Josh_B]

someone link me to anything that comes close to resembling a good reason for voting someone

i havent seen one for tree or anyone else tbh

humour me

link

[Josh_B]

And no, I'm not voting gameplay. That's like one of the stupidest possible lynches today IMO.

What makes it so stupid?

[Josh_B]

How much time left?
VOTE: Aegor

[Josh_B]

Alright. Was about to yell at everyone for the shotty Tex wagon, but apparently thats done with. Why we voting Aegor now?

Also, @Alina, I checked mah wiki and the <3 has been recieved

I would still lynch you, and I think most people would agree if it wasn't for PR.

[Josh_B]

Honestly, thats just how Aegor sort of acts though.

@Josh I dont recall asking who we were lynching. Feel free to keep tapking about who you

would

lynch if there wasnt a better wagon, though.

Your mild resistance to lynching Aegor has been noted. Maybe we can talk more about that in DP2.

[Josh_B]

Reinoe, can I be in your hood? Mine has lurking

PV

dumb town and

texcat

....

Well, damn.

Might as well out this completely since scum probably already knows: I'm in a Neighborhood with those three.

And I do not think our Neighborhood is an all-town one. I narrowed it down earlier to {texcat, PV}. Titus went in and out of that, and ultimately is most likely town.

I thought PV was town earlier because in the Neighborhood, he looked like he was putting work into the game. So by PoE I singled out texcat.

But as time went on, it frustrated me how it seemed like PV barely ever did anything in-thread, like he was trying to hide behind the scenes this game. And it felt/feels like just a bunch of question asking with no followups or town thought process at all. Then this whole debacle and his stuff in the last few pages are making me almost, almost regret the texcat angle because I just want PV dead.

So yeah. There it is. Why I was so eager for a texcat lynch earlier, and why it becomes slightly less tasteful as I want PV's death more and more.

There is no chance of a PV lynch today, though. I wish I had more time and I wish I could shift over to him, because his refusal to lynch texcat just completely feels like he doesn't want to narrow our neighborhood down between me and him, since it's generally agreed Titus is in her town mode. But I can't because all of this is only happening so close to deadline.

Don't get me wrong, I still want that texcat lynch to likely clean up our neighborhood. But I'm now acknowledging that he

could

flip town, and if he does, there will probably be nothing bar an innocent result to stop me from wanting PV gone.

pedit so here's a tl;dr: I think PV doesn't want a texcat lynch because he's scum who wants to save the only buffer against his lynch in our neighborhood.

Hmmn, NO mention of farside/muffin man in that NB at all

[Josh_B]

Go ahead Marquis, make the case about why you think I'm scum. I'll decide if it's reasonable and respond accordingly.
#itwillberandombullshit
#forgiggles

[Josh_B]

I think it's pretty weird that the gunsmith didn't get killed, Soo... Aero, What information do you have for us?

[Josh_B]

M

a

rquis, your vote is a

li

ttle late don't you thi

n

k? Your pl

a

n seems fine. I'm thirsty, so I'll consider it.

[Josh_B]

For my hood, I like PV as scum. Texcat seems like the designated mislynch.

Also find out if scum have daychat. That makes Marquis scum a tad bit more likely.

They don't. Only Neighborhoods have daychat. I'm pretty sure that wake made that clear.

[Josh_B]

Yeah, I will gloriously hammer. You already know how much I like to tool. The DP has only been open for about 24 hrs. Does anyone care about that?

[Josh_B]

This was a fun game to watch. I really enjoyed playing with you all even though I was killed pretty quickly. See you all around.
And tbh, I totally would have lynched marquis for the mason's claim. But I really thought skybird was town. so I'm totally surprised that was the winning lynch. House did a really good job with his votes and unvotes at the end which I think kind of turned the tables on things.