In post 260, Asher Kendrell wrote: In post 252, Wake1 wrote:vettrock
Vettrock's another player I haven't had the pleasure of playing with before. In light of Wolfy being innocent, it doesn't look like you ever placed suspicion on him. I did notice your exchange with Scripten, in which in
68 he asks you who you'd NK as Scum if there were no lynch. You respond in
116 by saying you wouldn't know, and that you'd need more information, and that you'd pick a random target. This bit leaves me wondering, because if you were Scum, and seeing how this isn't multiball, you'd already know who is Scum and who is Town. From your hypothetical standpoint there would be no "believing who is most likely to be Town." You say you'd be left with two options:
1)
A nightkill should be the person most believed to be town.
Now, I could be misunderstanding you here. Do you mean the person most believed to be Town... in the eyes of the players? If that is what you meant to say, then that changes things and I would agree with it.
2)
A nightkill should be a person that is particularly threatening to you.
This would make the most sense to me, so long as you make sure it doesn't come back to bite you. We likely have differences of opinion in how to play the game. If you know someone is Town, and a particularly strong Town voice at that, you'd want to kill that person earlier rather than later. There is merit to randomly killing a Townie, too, in that there's less likelihood of the death being tied back to you. It's also situational, as you mentioned in the last sentence of that post.
I'd agree with the assessment of 1, assuming he meant in the eyes of the players. 2, however, gets a bit more complicated. In post
38, vettrock talked about having played with clusk and wolfy before. I replaced clusk, so the only one he's played with before is wolfy. I don't know if wolfy's town play is usually strong, but he is the only player that vettrock seems to have had first hand experience with. Wolfy got lynched though, so the night kill would have to be, by his standards, random or the most believed to be town. Mr_ree only talked about vettrock once, in which he called him town
(203). Other than that, there's no connection between mr_ree and vettrock. That could be either that vettrock is unrelated to the night kill or that it was just a random townie kill.
To confirm, yes, I mean most town in the eyes of the other players. I'm not sure who that would have been at the end of D1 at this point.
In post 260, Asher Kendrell wrote:
Vettrock did say that he was against a no lynch in
119, but he was also against the lynch on wolfy, so it sounds more like he would be okay with a no lynch as long as it happens slow rather than immediately. I already talked about voting for shaded and leaving it there; to me it seems like he just wanted to avoid the wagon without being called out by an active player.
I am against a NoLynch on D1 under pretty much any circumstance. NoLynch is for when you are at MyLo and it is in the town's best interests to eliminate one of the options so they don't mislynch.
I didn't really see the case against wolfy, Should I have moved my vote to someone else, perhaps, although I don't think it would have made much of a difference at that point since everyone seemed intent on lynching wolfy.
In post 260, Asher Kendrell wrote:
"Maybe I don't have the Uber skills of all of you, but knowing with "certainty" that someone will flip scum is something that only scum can say."
The first part of this sentence feels fake to me. A bit. As for the second part, you say it's something only Scum can say. So... why did you do nothing against that person? If that was something only Scum would say, where was your vote to put action behind your words? If you think something done can only be done by Scum, you cast a vote against the person doing that Scummy action. Instead you did not, which troubles me, because it doesn't make your words ring true, because if you believed what you said your actions would follow suit.
"While I'm not for dragging things out unnecessarily, lynching at this point is anti-town."
At what point would you be for lynching? A ballpark estimate would be helpful here.
That last post was on August 29th, at 8:03am. Mr. Ree hammered at 2:55pm that same day. You've not posted since. You had around seven hours to post. It's understandable if you were busy with real-life. If you weren't, and since you viewed Wolfy's wagon as incredibly anti-Town, maybe you could have, if Town, found time to post one or two more posts voicing your disapproval of that wagon?
This is troubling for me because he could have done more to try and stop the lynch wagon but instead took a more "No. Don't." approach instead of being actively against it. Not really any actions he did back up trying to stop the lynch. Also, lynching is anti-town, but so is not lynching? It seems like more fence sitting to me, rather than picking a side and doing something about it.
Other than that, I don't know enough about meta to try and extrapolate his playstyle. I think I covered everything Wake88, but it's always possible I missed something.
For a ballpark figure of when I would be in favor of lynching, I would say about 2-3 days before the deadline on D1 would give the town generally more information to go off of. The real indicator is when people no longer have much to say. If people are still commenting and providing content, let the day go on. If it gets to the point where everyone is saying that they said all they have to say, it fine to hammer at that point no matter how much time is left. At that point we had two players that were just getting into the game, and had the hammer not happened, probably would have contributed a bit more before the lynch. Even if it doesn't change the results, I think it better to have more information than less.
As far as my meta, you can read through my other games to see my playstyle, but as I have been town on almost every game on this site, you won't have much scum play to evaluate. In theory, you could look at if my play differed significantly. My only scum game, I replaced in the night, and when the Day started, the Cop who we roleblocked, started off with a bogus guilty result on one of the town. There was a quickhammer and it was over.
While you can accuse me of fense sitting, I can say the side I sat on consistently was the not lynching Wolfy, and now I'm on the not lynching Josh side. Who needs to by lynched, I'm less certain of. I was not advocating a NoLynch as much as a someone other than Wolfy.
In post 377, TierShift wrote:
In post 369, vettrock wrote: In post 365, Scripten wrote: In post 363, vettrock wrote:
I think Josh is town, wake is null, Asher is moderately scummy, Tiershift is slightly town. BBT and Scripten moderately scummy. Yes I realize this is three scum. I'll pick BBT for now, but I would consider either of the other two as well.
Are you at least going to lay down a vote? Or... you know, do something other than comment on the situation and sit back. Come on, if you're not scum, then help the town, please? your play has been poor and lazy all game.
VOTE: BBT
I meant to put down the BBT vote, but I guess I missed it (hence the "I'll pick BBT for now")
I'll admit I haven't been as active as I should be.
Yo are you caught up? I asked you a few questions. Can you give me
some
sort of reads?
I just went through your ISO and didn't see any questions direct at me specifically except the ones from D1 which I answered.
While I recognize that it is somewhat a playstyle issue, I dislike it when people make quick judgements and then push them to lynch. This is a scum tactic, but of course all of the people on the wagon can't be scum. While no one like to be wrong, or change their mind, it seems BBT makes his choice and then finds reasons to support his choice rather than looking at the reasons and then making a choice.
I found the push on wolfy scummy, and I think the push on Josh is scummy as well. I'm generally in favor of extending the day at least moderately close to the deadline, as I can only see that helping town. When it gets to the point where there is not much else to discuss, sure it is time to hammer. But that didn't seem to be the case D1. D2 seems headed in the same direction. The question is of course who among the pushers is scum, and who is duped town.
As far as coming out of the woodwork and defending Josh, Yes I have not been as active as I should be. The case against Josh doesn't seem that strong to me.
