Open 569 ~ Hope + 1 ~ Game Over!

[Jakuzure Nonon]

VOTE COUNT

1.43

(0) tn5421:

(2) SXTLHGaiden:

davesaz, Thesp

(0) startfromtheheart:

(0) GreyICE:

(2) Varsoon:

Bins, Team 9

(1) ika:

tn5421

(4) Thesp:

GreyICE, ika, notscience, startfromtheheart

(1) The Bulge:

Flubbernugget

(1) Team 9:

The Bulge

(0) davesaz:

(1) Flubbernugget:

SXTLHGaiden

(0) notscience:

(0) Bins:

(0) No Lynch:

Not Voting:

Varsoon

With thirteen alive, it takes seven to lynch. The day will end on

Monday, September 8th, 2014 @ 11:34pm PDT,

which is in

(expired on 2014-09-09 02:34:00).

Bins is V/LA.

[davesaz]

This sequence is one example I'd like to call out.

Come an get me.

I'm pretty sure that's what the intention behind a vote is

You're gonna have to back that vote up with some justification. Otherwise, when I flip civ, it'll be really hard for you to wiggle out of it.

Town
me
Bins
Bulge
22slot
ika
Team 9
Thesp
Dave
Bert

Not town
Everyone else

pedit-

Nah

I like a challenge

This is me acknowledging he will flip town

when I flip civ

i think im picky but this irks me

My bad, I slipped.

Varsoon says "flip civ" which is the correct terminology for vanilla.
Then Bins gets upset about it, and Varsoon says it's a slip.

Enough for a case? Not by itself, research continues...

[davesaz]

GUESS WHO HAS RETURNED FROM HIS SLUMBER?

Spoiler:

Imagine my surprise--coming back to a thread and it had 20 new pages. Amazing.
But, on the real, here's some TRUTH:

• ALL YOU SILLY FOLK SHOULD RELAX, WE'RE HERE TO HAVE A GOOD TIME
  TN AND SAKURA LOOKS LIKE TOWN VERSUS TOWN WALLING TO ME

  Spoiler:

  (I have experience with it, firsthand, especially with Pieguy. It isn't bringing us anywhere and is just kicking up noise for scum to hide in.)

  
  WHY DID EVERYONE DITCH THE BINS WAGON? BINS ONLY HAD TO CHILL OUT AND YOU ALL FLED FROM IT. SCALLYWAGS!
  READS LISTS. EVERYONE. NOW. EXPLAIN EACH READ WITH AT LEAST ONE SENTENCE.

  Spoiler:

  tn5421 - Town. Walling with Sakura, seems to have lost sight of pretty much erry'thing else. Seems genuinely frustrated.
  SXTLHGaiden - Null-scum. Seems like he's lurking it out, or at least letting louder players duke it while chilling. Was glad someone noticed him, though. I'm iffy, but it feels scum.
  startfromtheheart - Null. Not much coming from this slot. I'd lean it town, but part of me goes 'Varsoon! Stop! Collaborate! And listen!'
  Bitmap - Null-scum. Bitmap's input booooothers me. Feels like Gaiden but a bit more involved and trying not to step on anyone's toes.
  Varsoon - Town.
  Sakura Hana -Town. Is defiantly town, caught in a quagmire.
  Titus - Town. Typical Town Titus. Calm, collected, even when getting wagon'd.
  The Bulge - Null - Literally who?
  Team 9 - Town. Leap of Fate.
  davesaz - Null. Literally who?
  Flubbernugget - Null-Town. Has stuck on the Bins wagon despite being capable of sending other ones over the edge. The late jump onto Bins bothered me at first, esp. in tandem with the NS vote.
  notscience - Null-Scum. Didn't like earlier NS play at all, put it in the scum bucket. Is still arms-length and uninvolved, but doesn't seem spiteful. That hop to the TN wagon looks hella suspect to me.
  Bins - Scum. Chillin like a Villain. It always bothers me when my scum reads call me town, too. It's like an apology bargain--I'll townread you, pls off my wagon.

  
  I WILL LISTEN TO EMINEM WITH YOU, TITUS.
  I AM ALSO A MAN, BUT MY HEART ALSO GOES DOKI~DOKI~
  SERIOUSLY, THERE IS A CITY THAT THIS DARKNESS CAN NOT HIDE,
  THERE ARE THE EMBERS OF A FIRE THAT'S GONE OUT
  BUT I CAN STILL FEEL THE HEAT ON MY SKIN
  THIS MESS WE'RE IN, WELL YOU AND I,
  MAYBE YOU AND I,
  WE CAN STILL MAKE IT RIGHT.
  MAYBE WE CAN BRING BACK THE LIGHT!
  JOIN ME, IN THE VARSOON COALITION. WE CAN BRING DOWN THE SCUM. SEPARATE, WE ARE WEAK. TOGETHER, WE ARE A BLOC STRONGER THAN ANY SCUM REGIME.
  

The way we'll form this town bloc is via a WotC voting system:
Everyone has one vote for who goes into the Bloc.
You can not vote for yourself.
You can also cast a vote against exactly one player.
Votes for a player count as 2 points.
Votes against a player count as 1 point.
Maybe there should be a point cutoff to get in?
Help me out here, guys.

Here's how we'll format this:

TOWN BLOC ADD: Team 9

TOWN BLOC REJECT: Bins

CURRENT BLOC STANDINGS:
Team 9: 2point
Bins : -1point

I think this could work.

This town bloc thing bothered me the first time I saw it (on my arrival in China) and still does to an extent. Another thing that bothers me about the post is that the real content (reads and stuff) is inside the spoilers, almost like it was meant to be hidden but easy to bring up as "gee, you didn't bother reading this" if challenged later.

[davesaz]

Damn, it's raining on my steak on the grill

[Varsoon]

Dave, that's pretty weak.
I use spoilers to avoid walling.
Spoilers= tags are there for literally everyone to press.
You know what a good way of hiding content is?
Not fucking posting.

[ika]

did we break record yet?

[davesaz]

Dave, that's pretty weak.
I use spoilers to avoid walling.
Spoilers= tags are there for literally everyone to press.
You know what a good way of hiding content is?
Not fucking posting.

Spoilers are fine. What caught me was that the stuff that really matters (the reads) was in the spoilers, and the stuff that really doesn't (the town block BS) was outside. But fair enough, you don't want to wall and I'll admit that this is a good thing, especially with some of the stuff that has shown up in this game.

To be honest, after digging deeper the general impression that I got from just ISOing doesn't hold up well. What had stuck out was the preponderance of posts on mechanics. The town block thing, and the stuff with power roles. Scum want the PRs to slip and reveal themselves, but it's also plausible that vulnerable feeling town might have that same idea. What's your current stand on the various ideas which have been floated re: power roles? Like hiding the cop's results in floods of mass fakeclaims, doctors splitting the list to try to avoid double protecting the claimed cop, etc? Should that type of approach really be tried this early? Is it right to focus there and contribute less to direct analysis?

Surely you can't be accusing me of hiding. So whom is that really directed to? I still have two firm candidates in that direction but there are a bunch of people saying that it's these particular candidates' persona to be quiet. I have no meta to go by and don't necessarily buy the concept that actively inactive people are anything but scummy.

I also have seen at least two candidates for the "scum leading town" role. I'd like to see some original thoughts on that angle, from anyone.

[Varsoon]

The truth is that there really isn't much else to discuss on D1.
When people engage in conversation over something, you're going to respond to it. That's why there's such a high density of setup-related posts in pretty much everyone's ISOs.
It's a topic everyone can weigh in on.
I think that if a winning strat can be employed this early, it should be. Resistance to winning strats feels like doubt/scum holdback. The issue is figuring out what to do.
As of now, with a claimed Doc, we should just shut up about PRs. In a way, that's also what makes me dubious of T9's claim--it shuts up pro-town setup breaking by claiming a role that is immune to counterclaims.

I can accuse anyone of anything. Information in forum mafia is always shared and never on accident. I mean, you gotta type that shit out. Then hit submit.

[Team 9]

My feeling on the Bulge wagon, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that people were voting for the Bulge because people were voting for the Bulge. I saw more descriptions of the wagon as a "leftover" wagon than I did of "this is scummy, we must murder this post haste".

this part is incorrect. the Bulge wagon at its peak:

(L-1) The Bulge: Thesp, Team 9, Sakura Hana, Varsoon, tn5421, notscience

Thesp was voting Bulge as a lurker vote, yes. but after that:

-we have a whole bunch of good reasons for scumreading Bulge that, incidentally, still haven't been refuted. the only reason we're not actively pushing it any more is bc for whatever reason no one has ever engaged us on any of our arguments and instead everyone keeps saying our case is based on "lol inactivity".
-Sakura pointed out several scummy behaviors from Bulge
-Varsoon initially voted him as a lurker vote. however, then he thought Bulge wasn't handling the pressure well and eventually agreed with us
-tn had also pointed out some things from Bulge he thought was scummy
-I strongarmed notsci into joining us on the wagon

Bert had also voted Bulge while the wagon was building up but eventually unvoted. Flubber also has a scumread on Bulge. so p much every vote on the wagon was legit as opposed to "vote for the sake of vote" (this is actually one of the reasons I didn't like 22's behavior while they were in the game - they kept trying to write the Bulge wagon off as "lol we're lynching Bulge just because we already have a wagon there" when they supposedly hadn't read the game and it wasn't the case at all, among other reasons)

It's damn hard for scum to stay on a predecessor wagon - if nothing else it looks scummy. If you want to say the bulge wagon died because of anyone, it died because of notscience. Thesp actually came in AFTER not science started pushing the wagon away and tried to Kickstart the wagon, on the basis of "noncontributions" (which seems to be his new defining mantra - apparently all this scumhunting shit has gone out the window, and Thesp lynches based on post count and post length (the only explanation for him not being on TN's ass, besides the fact they're currently sharing a QT and shit)

uh.... this isn't exactly how it went. while it's true nostci tried to derail the Bulge wagon, eventually I strongarmed him into joining it. after that he said he felt bad for making Sakura replace out and wouldn't unvote unless we said he could which indicates he had stopped trying to derail it. Thesp came in after that happened.

I also disagree that the wagon couldn't have been pushed though. at that point the wagon had 5 votes. while a lot of the player list kept arguing for Bulge town, there were at least 2 or 3 ppl who had given no reason or are notable for throwing votes around easily - Flubber (who later on had a scumread on Bulge) was off the wagon and it wouldn't have been too hard to get the last vote from Bert or Gaiden. plus, I was already basically planning to appeal to exactly those 3 people, so in hindsight he wouldn't even had to have done anything (although he couldn't have known that at the time)

not to mention it got revived later and reached L-2 with Thesp off the wagon and ika had declared intent to hammer. he could have easily pushed the wagon through there if he wanted to. it might have been kind of conspicuous, but it was at the very least possible - which is exactly what I'm saying.

btw, just to clarify I'm not necessarily saying Thesp is town. I currently have him as null and am considering the possibility he's scum. I'm just unsure about this specific angle. also I didn't have a town read on your predecessor. Marquis hit a lot of off notes when he was in the game and that's the main reason I think your slot might be scum

I'd like if you could elaborate on your thoughts on Titus (I was scum reading her when she was in the game and I wanna know if you picked up on the same thing I saw with her) and your Varsoon read.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

-we have a whole bunch of good reasons for scumreading Bulge that, incidentally, still haven't been refuted. the only reason we're not actively pushing it any more is bc for whatever reason no one has ever engaged us on any of our arguments and instead everyone keeps saying our case is based on "lol inactivity".

and no, if you're watching, I do not want any discussion over this atm. the last thing this game needs at this point in time is even more pages of "bulge this bulge that".

-Rumia

[Team 9]

oh btw, I agree with GIF on Varsoon

-Rumia

[Varsoon]

I don't even know.

[Thesp]

The Bulge has dropped off the radar since his wagon dematerialized.

UNVOTE: SXTLHGaiden
VOTE: The Bulge

I also approve of the wagon on Varsoon, and would be happy to move my vote there if needed. I'd like to see us get a lynch soonish, as we are approaching the deadline. (And there's no sense in doing a lynch Monday night right up against a deadline when there's enough content by this point to make a reasonably informed lynch.) I'd like to see singleton voters either push hard for their case right now, or be moving somewhere that a lynch can happen.

[davesaz]

I figured out who it was that was posting "tn" all the time where it seemed to be directed at Team 9. It was ika. I originally thought Sakura was scum from some statements which read like "Team 9 is town and I support Team 9 so I'm town too, and you have to go along with the PoE because we're town". I could go quote those, and probably will, but I wanted to write this down while I'm thinking about it.

After all the replacement activity, ika was all over Team 9 and didn't really let up during all the cop claim discussion. I can quote that too. Plus a bunch of "shut down discussion" posting which I kinda ignored at the time as replace-in ranting but in hindsight looks very anti-town -- discussion and lynching someone is town's only weapon.

VOTE: ika

[davesaz]

VOTE: team 9

kill this with fire.

22 is also prob scum, titus/thesp is town, buldge is town

thats what i have offhand

I thought we just got a hammer on bulge.


Why is 22 scum with team 9?

no, NS unvoted and revoted

if 22 is scum then team 9 is scum by affiliation

team 9 is scum in general

im willing to lynch either

Hi Ika

First time playing a forum game with u yay

Also this bulge wagon is not my favorite and I wish it would die down

join me on 22/team 9 then

i hope that we can have fun

p-edit: prob b/c they are scum ive already stated my case

No case was stated at all. None! The very first post was Team 9 is scum, with

no discussion

.
I ignored it at the time, thinking it was just brash style. (Part of the reason I ignored it was also that I have thought, at various times throughout this marathon day, that Team 9 may indeed be scum, but that's something that can be taken care of later)

[davesaz]

hey team9 question, do you mind a cop checking you?

hey team9 question, do you mind a cop checking you?

Yes. I am currently discussing with pieguy about how to somehow fit a miller claim in this setup.

thank you for confirming your scum status

VOTE: team 9

22 will be next. cop can check to confirm it and i would peg it with TN. i will have to look later

p-edit: they are scum vote them. its obvious bins is town if they flip scum

p-edit 2: you too buldge vote them (unless you already are)

I'm pretty sure that Team 9's reply was intended as a joke. It's an open setup and Team 9 had to be aware at this point that ika had jumped in first post with a baseless vote. Meanwhile ika starts trying to direct traffic, still based on a nothing case.

[davesaz]

One more serving, then I have to work.

@start join me on team 9 we can get 22 tommorw.

@bins, join us as well

p-edit: just let ns deal with it, he will prob come around later

p-edit 2: fine then vote park but its not getting lynched anytime soon

Ika, it's important because notty is voting because of it.

And Gaiden, do you like the too scummy to be scum persona or something?

notty isnt goign to budge apparently, think of it as unstpoable force meets immovable object

I'm more of a "Troll everyone until death becomes a shockingly likely outcome"

hey do me a favor and vote team 9 they are scumbutts and need to be lynched

i already solved the game for us

p-edit: im now randomly going to shout his name to just summon him for lolz and time how long it takes

p-edit 2: POE

I read your posts. I didn't see it.

You claim a case, please link it. Your ISO is only 50 posts long. If it's there, shouldn't be too hard to post it again.
You explained how Titus doesn't replace out. Ergo, her replacing out is not alignment-indicative. Unless you'd like to posit that any game Titus is still in necessitates Titus scum.
I'm saying she's scum from the whole "stop the violence" position. Which has already been plainly stated. So you're complete misrepping at this point.

You're the one who brings up IRL as a reason to townread. I'm only offering the logical counterargument.


Present the 22 Scumcase.

your not making me budge from my stance, i will just ignore you until further notice. read the entire game

just an announcement when we do cop claims d2 it is to be your first post

here ill save time thesp:

i have full intent o hammer. if this entire fuckign day is going to be over bludge i rather just lynch him and remove it so we dont have day 2 going "oh buldges i here, oh buldge is here" shit

given the fact im subconsouly aware of the tinyest hints of anyones role makes me all the more annnoyed

let just lynch 22 and ignore team 9 untill further notice

VOTE: 22

bins joint me, bludge join me on this wagon

know what fuck you guys lets to this then

VOTE: tn

buldge read the damn game. they claimed doc. they have a deathwish on their head alredy if they live we turbo-lynch

Impossible fucking battles.

It's not impossible battle. It's an im passe.
Like, check my ISO. There should be 3 pages. Check page 3. Read that page. Do you see me pushing the Bulge in that whole page? No.
I've been asking how the gaps in the bulge's thought process can possibly come from town. I even singled out when the Bulge wanted a short list of why I think he' s scum.
Instead of answering my question, people have been just yelling at me for "OMG BULGE IS TOWN BECAUSE HOW FRUSTRATED HE LOOKS SDFKLJASDLKFJDSKLFJDLSKF"

HOW ABOUT THIS: IS HIS MINDSET TOWN? ignore thought process. ignore logic, think mindset.

i have been lynched before b/c i was illogical but others defended me b/c i have a town mindset

lets have 3rd wheel wagon on tn instead.

can we lynch tn? and sort you guys out tommorow?

Fucking hell, can't we just get you cop investigated or something? I don't want to lynch the MAYBE doctor.

Fucking hell, can't we just get you cop investigated or something? I don't want to lynch the MAYBE doctor.

I'd rather get mislynched than stay as a Cassandra in this game any more minutes thank you very much.

you can always replace out?

WHILE I HAVE EVERYONES ATTENTOIN:

Do a read list of the players

It doesnt have to be some fucking novel, but just stae them why. I dont want to hear any bickering on a persons reads either.

I will start:

22/tn/flubber are my suspects for their general posting and the case i haev presented.

i could see a wird chance of bins being scum as well

Where is the 'case' that you have presented then?

i am ignoring you untill further notice.

also if either bulge or t9 come out here and bicker again i will pull out the ultimate anti-town thing: outing the cop

More directing traffic, and here's the place where Team 9 starts getting referred to by tn. I can see the point of thinking the claim could be bogus, but you take care of that type of problem later.

Lest you think I'm confbiasing, feel free to iso and see for yourself. There isn't a whole lot of other stuff to exclude to this point -- well, a little flipping between 22 and Team 9 as the biggest scum, and perhaps a side trip, but then back again.

My conference call is starting and I'm the moderator. And I don't know how many posts in a row is too many, so I'll stop here.

[ika]

GL with that case dave

[notscience]

Sakuras replace out was town as fuck so yeah

[davesaz]

GL with that case dave

At least I post evidence. The meta doesn't exist for me, and it seems that's all about half the people in this cluster fuck use.
What are you basing your reads on?

[ika]

GL with that case dave

At least I post evidence. The meta doesn't exist for me, and it seems that's all about half the people in this cluster fuck use.
What are you basing your reads on?

roles, i rolehunt people and then POE from there. its a very anti-town way but its what i do

[ika]

and a mixture of meta on some

[davesaz]

Rolehunt? Using what as a basis? You have to be able to point to it so that other people can see it.

[davesaz]

Also, it "being what you do" doesn't excuse it being scummy looking. You even admit it's anti-town.

[SXTLHGaiden]

Rolehunt? Using what as a basis? You have to be able to point to it so that

other people

I

can see it.

ftfy