Open 566: Murder on the Oriental Express (Game Over)

[Amy Farrah Fowler]

I'll get more in-depth with things later tonight. I think Astinus' behavior is more of a personality tell than an alignment tell.

I'd take that as a good point, right? I can hide my alignment beneath my personality and nobody will e able to tell who I am?

^ troll

[RoyalApe]

Okay for starters I'm going to

Unvote

Looking through, it's hard for me to pinpoint everyone I think is scum but here are my leads at the moment.

I feel that AMY is definitely town and that unlike my original thoughts that Farside is town as well.

I don't quite see the logic on why people are thinking Skelda is scum because the logic that he brings up in 248 makes sense IMO but his post in 279 does come off a little fishy although I would not exactly call it scummy.

Now the person I think comes off the scummiest IMO is nakedjogger. Nakejogger had been pushing for a RoyalApe lynch for most of D-1 and then out of nowhere votes Farside with no explanation? That seems scummy to me.

If you think Jogger is the scummier so far, you should vote there, why haven't you?

[RoyalApe]

As for myself, I'm going to put my vote on Skelda. I didn't vote there after the last exchange because I wanted to step away to lose the emotion of the situation. My opinion hasn't changed, so I'll go ahead and put my vote.

VOTE: Skelda

[RoyalApe]

Well, CMK, I don't think having townreads is particularly suspicious and townreads can be useful because they tell you who not to lynch. But I'm obviously a bit biased. You are very good at making convincing cases though. I might be convinced if I didn't know you were wrong.

But you see, having a lot of strong townreads on people gives you fewer scum options right there, and in a game where I don't have a whole lot of strong scumreads, if I have a townread I'm going to say something. Right now I'm feeling RoyalApe, Dry-fit, Toby, and/or Mr_Blonde for scum because pretty much everyone else has at some point given me something that feels genuine. Isn't finding town a valid way to find scum? I think townreading is easier than scumreading. AND both Dry-fit and Mr_Blonde are on the Chaos wagon, which is, as far as I'm concerned, a scummy place to be.

Town reads are valuable, but yours didn't seemed to be based on much.

[Skelda]

Well, CMK, I don't think having townreads is particularly suspicious and townreads can be useful because they tell you who not to lynch. But I'm obviously a bit biased. You are very good at making convincing cases though. I might be convinced if I didn't know you were wrong.

But you see, having a lot of strong townreads on people gives you fewer scum options right there, and in a game where I don't have a whole lot of strong scumreads, if I have a townread I'm going to say something. Right now I'm feeling RoyalApe, Dry-fit, Toby, and/or Mr_Blonde for scum because pretty much everyone else has at some point given me something that feels genuine. Isn't finding town a valid way to find scum? I think townreading is easier than scumreading. AND both Dry-fit and Mr_Blonde are on the Chaos wagon, which is, as far as I'm concerned, a scummy place to be.

Town reads are valuable, but yours didn't seemed to be based on much.

Which of my townreads aren't based on much?

[TobyLoby]

@Skelda

, can you give a more definite moment when you believed Chaos was going to be an easy lynch? Also, what points about dry-fit and Toby (me) that CKD made that you agree with and what does it mean to you? CKD didn't mention either of us much so I want to see what you got out of it.

@Chaos

, do you still believe scum is on your wagon and influencing it? If so, who?

[Skelda]

@Skelda

, can you give a more definite moment when you believed Chaos was going to be an easy lynch? Also, what points about dry-fit and Toby (me) that CKD made that you agree with and what does it mean to you? CKD didn't mention either of us much so I want to see what you got out of it.

Definitive moment? Hmmmph. Well, I mean, it was a horrible first post and I'm not trying to dispute that, but right off the bat it isn't a post from someone who is difficult to lynch. It is a post from a new player who is unable to not be scummy and if those players aren't scum they are easy scum targets. So I guess I probably started thinking he was easy to lynch after seeing all of the votes on him and reading his first post over again, honestly. It definitely wasn't until after the wagon was there, I initially was in the camp who didn't like him I believe.

He just pointed out your poor reasons for casting serious votes early in the game. I think with you it was your "Lots of people self-voted" post, because it was kind of twisting actions into something they weren't. It wasn't really a huge thing on my mind, since the vast majority of his post was him suspecting me. But given that both of you are among the few people who haven't been particularly Townie this game, I just thought it was worth mentioning, especially since he asked me about what I thought of his entrance other than the part about myself.

[chaoslord54]

Okay for starters I'm going to

Unvote

Looking through, it's hard for me to pinpoint everyone I think is scum but here are my leads at the moment.

I feel that AMY is definitely town and that unlike my original thoughts that Farside is town as well.

I don't quite see the logic on why people are thinking Skelda is scum because the logic that he brings up in 248 makes sense IMO but his post in 279 does come off a little fishy although I would not exactly call it scummy.

Now the person I think comes off the scummiest IMO is nakedjogger. Nakejogger had been pushing for a RoyalApe lynch for most of D-1 and then out of nowhere votes Farside with no explanation? That seems scummy to me.

If you think Jogger is the scummier so far, you should vote there, why haven't you?

I was planning to wait and see Jogger's response to my post first to gauge their points before I set a sure in vote on them.

[FakedBlogger]

I'm voting for who I think is scummiest. Pretty much with the same criteria in mind.

[TobyLoby]

I don't think farside is scum. She has pretty consistently questioned people and called them out. The Chaos wagon itself has been getting some negative feedback by Skelda, Ranon, and from Chaos himself. Additionally, acyron had recently left the wagon. To join the wagon at that point would draw negative attention and I don't know if scum-her would have done that.

[TobyLoby]

It's a (small) part of why I think acyron's vote off of Chaos is more indicative of scum.

I am still getting used to using my vote more. I come from playing IRL, where votes were used differently, and as I get more used to this format, I am starting to use my votes for pressure more. Consider your post inspiration. I still don't like the play I've seen from Toby.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: TobyLoby

He uses his votes for pressure, so he takes his vote off of the leading wagon to make a twofer wagon on me. That doesn't make sense. His read on Chaos didn't change either. I also don't buy the part about putting pressure on me while Chaos has pressure already that will stay.

I look at -who I believe- is a town farside putting a vote on Chaos to put pressure on him and I look at acyron taking their vote off because they believe there is enough pressure and it doesn't make sense.

[farside22]

Okay for starters I'm going to

Unvote

Looking through, it's hard for me to pinpoint everyone I think is scum but here are my leads at the moment.

I feel that AMY is definitely town and that unlike my original thoughts that Farside is town as well.

I don't quite see the logic on why people are thinking Skelda is scum because the logic that he brings up in 248 makes sense IMO but his post in 279 does come off a little fishy although I would not exactly call it scummy.

Now the person I think comes off the scummiest IMO is nakedjogger. Nakejogger had been pushing for a RoyalApe lynch for most of D-1 and then out of nowhere votes Farside with no explanation? That seems scummy to me.

I thought you believed the wagon would have scum on there, based on your last post, did I miss something?

VOTE: farside22

I hate naked votes.

Toby isn't a good place for a vote.

@Mod: Some serious action needs to be taken about Astinus posting in tread at this point. It's compromising the game.

I've reported her to Mr. Flay. I don't believe I have the power to ban her, do I? Is there anything else I should be doing? Sorry this has never happened to me before

Why is Toby a bad vote?

[farside22]

I'm rethinking my Toby scum read.
Sometime I think she's just asking questions to look productive, then I read this page and I wonder if she just doesn't post thoughts all the time.

Skelda: why did you vote for Toby?

[Belisarius]

Alright, CKD, you win a sheep.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Skelda

I'm not happy about my lack of scumreads this late in the Day. There's

got

to be something usable here...

[FakedBlogger]

VOTE: Belisarius

[Baezu]

Vote Count 1.09

TobyLoby: (2) acryon, Skelda
acryon: (2) TobyLoby, Ranon
Chaoslord54: (3) Dry-fit, Snugglyduckling, Farside22
Skelda: (3) Curiouskarmadog , RoyalApe, Belisarius
Belisarius: (2) Amy Farrah Fowler, NakedJogger

Not Voting: scrambles, Chaoslord54

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-09-09 18:18:00)

Mod Notes:
None

[Skelda]

I'm rethinking my Toby scum read.
Sometime I think she's just asking questions to look productive, then I read this page and I wonder if she just doesn't post thoughts all the time.

Skelda: why did you vote for Toby?

She was just someone who I didn't get particularly Town vibes from and I really didn't like the people who had votes. I am really not confident that she is scum, though.

Of the people with votes, I am most likely to go back to Beli. I really do not think that Chaos is scum. I guess I could see acryon, not really sure. But I am not in the mood to die Day 1 again.

[RoyalApe]

Well, CMK, I don't think having townreads is particularly suspicious and townreads can be useful because they tell you who not to lynch. But I'm obviously a bit biased. You are very good at making convincing cases though. I might be convinced if I didn't know you were wrong.

But you see, having a lot of strong townreads on people gives you fewer scum options right there, and in a game where I don't have a whole lot of strong scumreads, if I have a townread I'm going to say something. Right now I'm feeling RoyalApe, Dry-fit, Toby, and/or Mr_Blonde for scum because pretty much everyone else has at some point given me something that feels genuine. Isn't finding town a valid way to find scum? I think townreading is easier than scumreading. AND both Dry-fit and Mr_Blonde are on the Chaos wagon, which is, as far as I'm concerned, a scummy place to be.

Town reads are valuable, but yours didn't seemed to be based on much.

Which of my townreads aren't based on much?

Your 2nd post of thread 67 claims farside is town because he genuinely seems to believe his replacement theory. Even if farside is scum, I would expect him to look genuine in pushing his theory especially early. He wouldn't have had time to be inconsistent yet.

You state that Jogger is town because he decides to unvote because he's showing frustration and has no idea what is going on. You state it is clearly a town tell because you feel the same way. 131. Just before this, in post 129 you state that you don't like to think of people who agree with you are scum. Your town read at this point seems to be projecting your feelings onto a single post of agreement.

In posts 67 and 128 you are reading Beli as scum. In 133 you are already starting to give Beli town credit. By 174 you say he is talented scum and we should keep an eye on him, but posting an example of evil play is too town to ignore. You state that AFF is "just town". That is super insightful, really.

You call Chaos and CKD town in 296. Chaos because he sounds like he believes everything in his posts even if it is wrong. CKD is town because he has convincing arguments and because "heck, most of these people are town".

I have no problem with the thought that people can be wrong and be town. Odds are that wrong people are town because they are not working with as much info. I think your turn on Beli makes some sense if you believe that providing an example of prior scum play is something only a townie willing to be transparent would do - but even then you are hesitant to call him a good town read, you still want to keep an eye on him.

Your town reads on AFF (just town, really?) and Jogger seem to be out of nowhere. Your reads on chaos and CKD for believing what they say and having convincing arguments? Scum does that too.

[Skelda]

Do you not think AFF is just Town? I mean, her posts just exude Town. She's pretty much a universal townread at this point, there is no point in giving a better reason.

As for Jogger, I feel like if he were scum he would be putting more effort into following what is going on and not admitting that he doesn't know what is happening. That just doesn't seem like a scum thing to do. And scum don't believe what they are saying. Scum no what they are saying is false and say it anyway. There is definitely a difference there.

And look, I get why my play doesn't agree with you. Maybe I'm throwing out townreads based on gut and my whims and maybe I'm changing my mind about reads or getting my reads all murky. Whatever. But there is a difference between disagreeing with the way I'm playing and thinking I'm scum.

I don't really expect you to change your mind about me and I'm probably getting lynched at some point regardless, so I'm not even sure why I'm trying to convince you.

[RoyalApe]

I do lean town on AFF thus far. I just don't understand you throwing people completely into a "confirmed" good pile with so little information.

I generally waffle in the middle too much which is it's own problem, particularly early with little actionable information.

You're right that it could just be a style issue, but I'm happy with my vote here now.

[TobyLoby]

RoyalApe, for what other reason do you believe Skelda is scummy beyond the town reads deal? You said you were going to vote her before but all I'm reading is stuff about town reads. You had Skelda in the null pile post 145. So I am curious as to what changed your mind.

I'd also like to see your reads in general.

[TobyLoby]

Skelda is a him, I apologise. I see that name and think woman. \ /

I'm just not seeing this transition to Skelda scum before the town reads bit.

[TobyLoby]

I have further things I want to say (and no, not just questions), but I'd prefer RoyalApe to reply first.

[farside22]

Mod v/la for 48 hours.
Month end and sick is a bad combo

[SnugglyDuckling]

I'll be reading up more on this tomorrow. Very busy weekend