Mini 1591: PFs Flavorless Normal (Game Over)

[Cyberbob]

My brain hurts now, I don't know what this means.

It means you need to look back over some of your posts and think about how badly your pre-existing reads have coloured your interpretations of some of the posts both singer and I have made. Jumping down my throat over my comment on a 12 hour lack of posts comes to mind. Iso singer and look at the ratio of actual scumhunting (random gut tells don't count) to white noise meta chat about how much it sucks to be a replacement.

also there's this stellar post

Fair enough. I've been out of the house all day today so I'll compare arguments tomorrow.

I remember you making a good point about pops in one of my first posts but I can't remember right now. Noting to look at tomorrow.

@SleepyKrew...

engagement

that eventually lead to an L-2 vote on pops with absolutely zero reasoning or any of the elucidation of her thought processes that was promised.

And Cyber can't have backed out once he made that comment and I called him on it.

This is a terrible characterisation of what happened here. Do you think I was secretly hoping to slip that post by you or something?

I just realized bussing isn't as prohibitive for scum as I thought it was today either.

You're still trying to twist this around in your head so that you don't have to change your mind on my alignment or take any kind of a step back from yourself and analyse this critically. As long as we lynch scum today I suppose I don't mind though.

[Cyberbob]

Oh no wait, I lied (ALERT ALERT). This was singer's followup to that post.

Pops what do you like about singers play?

Yeah what

do

you like about my play...

And I remember, it was something about the scum thing farside brought up about pops but then she confused me with another comment about it making me forget I liked it when she stated it more clearly in the first place.

There...that's it. I don't remember why I said if probably vote for IAI, I think I meant pops.

A+ content here. I take back everything I said about singer, she has obviously been paying a serious amount of attention to this game all along. You can tell by the _________________________________ and also all the ____________________________.

[Squirrel Girl]

I personally think a vote on Pops without trying to claw much attention to the effort is more likely to come from town than scum.

I didn't think you expected to slip it by me, I think you might have hoped I didn't go for it.

What is your response to Singer's call about you and her emotional meta? She dinged you with that and I'm looking for clarification, but I noticed that you never addressed it directly - why is that?

[Cyberbob]

I personally think a vote on Pops without trying to claw much attention to the effort is more likely to come from town than scum.

what





what

anyway she didn't try to hide from attention, she just did this:

Meoooow.

I like wine.

And voting.

vote: popsofclown

teh random lollery its just like we were still in rvs XD

I didn't think you expected to slip it by me, I think you might have hoped I didn't go for it.

Ah yes good job, you called my bluff. How did you know!?!?

What is your response to Singer's call about you and her emotional meta? She dinged you with that and I'm looking for clarification, but I noticed that you never addressed it directly - why is that?

There isn't really much to respond to, I guess I'll say that I have an incredibly vaguer-than-vague memory of how she plays as either town or scum since it's been god knows how long since I really thought about mafia, let alone actually played a game of mafia, let alone actually put much thought into individual player metas, let alone actually put much thought into her individual meta. I don't even think I used to put a whole lot of stock in meta tells because of how easily they are to manipulate.

Long story short: I don't remember how she used to play and I wouldn't really care if I did.

[Cyberbob]

You actually are sort of half right ish about the Dessew thing though: I wasn't expecting you to go for it, I was expecting you to blather on about how much of an obvious bus it supposedly is (which you kind of did) and keep your vote on me anyway.

[Cyberbob]

Iso singer and look at the ratio of actual scumhunting (random gut tells don't count) to white noise meta chat about how much it sucks to be a replacement.

Also if you don't do this I will be forced to write a sternly worded post about how you are dodging it and questioning your motivation for doing so.

[Squirrel Girl]

Yo answer your 'what-what'.

Generally I feel that when scum decide it is time to bus that they would want to, y'know, get some props for the bus. So they tend to try to claw some of the prestige of the wagon to themselves. Make a case, point out a tell, do something to help make it look like they 'caught' the scum or at least helped in the catch. The lazier the vote, the more likely I feel it is to come from town. So, yes, I agree her vote was lazy - but I'm not sure why I'm supposed to believe that when bussing (where the only prize is towncred) she didn't even look like she cared much and also outsourced the credit.

The bluff comment from you is just meaningless posturing.

The meta comment...it feels a bit dodgy. So you're agreeing that back in some long forgotten day you may have been aware of some meta on her, but that you certainly wash your hands of it in the here and now even if you did? That's weird.

You actually are sort of half right ish about the Dessew thing though: I wasn't expecting you to go for it, I was expecting you to blather on about how much of an obvious bus it supposedly is (which you kind of did) and keep your vote on me anyway.

[Squirrel Girl]

'To answer'
Though maybe I channeled the 'yo' with the 'what-what'.

[Squirrel Girl]

I'm actually way too pleased with that mistype.

[Cyberbob]

Generally I feel that when scum decide it is time to bus that they would want to, y'know, get some props for the bus. So they tend to try to claw some of the prestige of the wagon to themselves. Make a case, point out a tell, do something to help make it look like they 'caught' the scum or at least helped in the catch. The lazier the vote, the more likely I feel it is to come from town. So, yes, I agree her vote was lazy - but I'm not sure why I'm supposed to believe that when bussing (where the only prize is towncred) she didn't even look like she cared much and also outsourced the credit.

Too scummy to be scum isn't a thing.

The bluff comment from you is just meaningless posturing.

Meaningless posturing in response to self-satisfied preening. It's a wash.

The meta comment...it feels a bit dodgy. So you're agreeing that back in some long forgotten day you may have been aware of some meta on her, but that you certainly wash your hands of it in the here and now even if you did? That's weird.

This isn't remotely a fair or accurate summary of what I said. That's weird.

It's pretty annoying when people do that isn't it?

isn't it?

[Cyberbob]

Anyways I'm off to bed, don't forget about this!

Iso singer and look at the ratio of actual scumhunting (random gut tells don't count) to white noise meta chat about how much it sucks to be a replacement.

Also if you don't do this I will be forced to write a sternly worded post about how you are dodging it and questioning your motivation for doing so.

Although I'm not sure why you'd even want to ignore or forget it since it is rather pro-town to be able to conduct - in good faith - this kind of activity.

I'll leave you with these two words: active lurking

[Squirrel Girl]

Ive been ignoring that request because it has a built in false premise that 'gut tells don't count'.
Basically what that's saying is 'a player who doesn't conform to a given playstyle becomes scum'
Which is bull-hooey.

Even looking at her iso I think your issue doesn't hold water. Yeah, sure, she's a player who gets reads more off interaction than off iso analysis. Big deal, I'm the same way, it's not a scumtell it's a playstyle tell, and I am totally on her wavelength that this game is a bear to deal with due to the inactivity and dodginess of the playerbase, because I'm fighting that exact thing - so I am really getting what she's saying and also her frustrations, and even if you don't get them I fail to see how they're active lurk, and even if we want to decide that's scumtell she's hardly alone, as I could easily apply the same issue to...well, basically every other player in this game.

[Squirrel Girl]

This isn't remotely a fair or accurate summary of what I said. That's weird.

I think it was a quite functional summary. You admitted that the knowledge might have existed, but even if it did you weren't bringing it forward with you. That *is* what you said.

[Dessew]

Oh, at some point I'll ask for a case on me, but if I demanded it to be posted right now, it'd be quite hypocritic, given my level of activity, and I definitely should avoid that with Demokles's sword above my neck, shouldn't I? :D So, how about in the next three ot four days?
I am rereading some of the pops-CoolDog exchange of D1, I cannot see why it's so damning, yet. I know you (maybe Bob?) emphasized the part where pops voted Drew, so I know where to look. I recall, though, that I didn't like the case on CoolDog.
@Goofy: pops was pushing a Konowa lynch, how about that?
And reiterating this: I think there's only one scum is left. (I remember towreading Bob based on that on D3.)

[PokerFace]

Day 4 Vote Count

Dessew (2) - Squirrel Girl, Cyberbob
singersinger (1) - RedCoyote
Squirrel Girl (1) - Goofyd00d
Cyberbob (1) - singersinger

Not voting (1) - Dessew

With 6 alive its 4 to lynch

Day 4 Deadline Countdown

(expired on 2014-09-16 19:00:00)

[RedCoyote]

Dessew, if you think there is only one scum left, why are you being so cautious with your vote? Your words don't sync up with your actions.

That said, I'm not sold on this quick jump to Dessew. I don't see what makes Dessew any more likely to be scum than anyone not named singer. I would appreciate it if either Bob or SG tried to sell me personally on this, because it seems y'all were awfully quick to join forces here. This is especially weird in SG's case. SG, do you think Bob is bussing? If so, why was he the first to "break the deadlock", as it where? If not, are you changing your mind on Bob?

[Squirrel Girl]

SG, do you think Bob is bussing? If so, why was he the first to "break the deadlock", as it where?

I literally already gave my thoughts on all of this.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p6199051
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p6199144

Which explanation isn't enough for you, and what deeper thought are you looking for?

[singersigner]

So particularly with reference I was pointing out that Bob and I were on the same team mafia team in 2011, where I specifically took the scum role because I felt like I could handle it over anyone else on my team (quadz was the third, I think Equinox was the forth?), and then ended up rereplacing into Bob's role because he semi rage-quit due to how people were targetting him as town.

Anyway, I feel like he should at least know that 1. I don't like being scum and 2. Would be smarter about my play if I was "in the know" as scum. I guess I got emotional about it and projected that he should know more than his experience almost three years ago might dictate, but I'm irritated that I'm very calculated as scum and assumed that he might remember that but probably didn't, scum or not.

[singersigner]

My biggest frustration is not knowing how many scum are left, and assuming that if there are two left, they'd be more aggressive about pushing me, but one left means they'd have to be more calculated in who's going to be left alive in the end.

[Goofyd00d]

Ugh! I hate the pressure, there is one person I've felt comfortable all game that is still alive, and that is RC. Based on this respect I gave a lot of thought to Pops interactions, as he asked. Pops hated kon, Pops wouldn't hammer Cool. I have a huge gut on Squirrel for helping pops slip by a day, but I'll relent.

VOTE: Singer

**Singer, unless memory fails, several people have called you out for AtE, but cyber gets the unexplained OMGUS?**

I left this in because I typed it before your posts, thanks for you explanation, but I played too much live where scum say "I hate playing scum, so I can't be scum."

[singersigner]

Lol way to not at all resemble the argument I actually made about being scum. +1

[singersigner]

Like, I get that I'm not a strong town player, but I already pointed out that I thought RC was insulting my scum play because I'd sure as fuck be able to at least pretend better as scum. I can't even give examples/compare my own meta since the last time I was scum was in the scummies invitational over a year ago.

But since it's relevant. Why me, why now? Everyone's been hemming and hawing over everything today, and it's only after two people switch to Dessew that you decide to vote me?

[Squirrel Girl]

That said, I feel good about Goofy's move as far as a 'he is likely town' sort of thing.
Even though he still isn't talking to m

That said, it would be as easy to slide to Dessew as it would be to slide to you.
I suppose maybe he's a theory Dessew buddy desperate to save Dessew and thus hoping to draw Cyber back to Singer...but I'm pretty sure I already ruled out Goofy/Dessew from something or other. I should look at that again. As long as I did, and I'm pretty sure I did, then this move is basically townish, and it's nly scummish if he *is* teamed with Dessew, so even if I can't it only makes sense s a scum move with Dessew/Goofy, so my initial comment still makes sense, yes!

That got really garbled. Short version is, unless Goofy = scum with Dessew than Goofy = town (with a p.s. of - I don't think they work as a pair, ergo...)

@Dessew - my case on you is mostly setup analysis and PoE for possible scumbuddy pairings.
When you show up to tell me how bad of a player I am and how bad of a conclusion/method that is - could you also tell me why you think we're facing only 2 total scum (one of them a goon) in a 12p setup?

[Goofyd00d]

The timing is based on my reading 2 pages at once and evolving my reads.

[Goofyd00d]

@Squirrel: Today I woke up late and had to take an emergency dump and was late to work. My wife and 6 month old visited me when they were out so that was a bright point. After work I started playing a game called Clicker Heroes, which you can try at ClickerHeroes.com, it is pretty cool for a clicker game. I then watched by son for a few hours which he mostly slept through so I could click uninterrupted. Then someone said they hated me, and that made me sads.

What else would you like to talk about?