Mini 1604 -- Zodiac Mafia (Game Over)

[Elyse]

THERE ARE SEVENTEEN HOURS UNTIL DEADLINE AND NO OTHER VIABLE WAGONS. WOULD YOU RATHER A NO LYNCH? I'm voting one of the wagons with two votes and the other is me. Where should I vote? Please tell me.

VC has been fixed. Still looking for a Sal replacement; deadline will be suspended if necessary.

Pisces' Daily Horoscope:

It might feel like there's a hole in your heart today, Pisces, and you could have a hard time filling it. Remember that you're the one responsible for making sure this void is taken care of. If you insist that someone else fill the gap, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Do something nice for yourself and feel free to spend a little money to make yourself happy.

---

Vote Count 1 - 14

• Salamence20 (4) ( Dry-fit - ToastyToast -
  Gemini Blind
  - Nachomamma8 - StrangerCoug)
  
  PeregrineV (2) ( Salamence20 - Elyse)
  Elyse (2) ( Xayzeck - PeregrineV)
  Aronis (1) ( CrashTextDummie)
  ToastyToast (1) ( Iecerint)
  
  Not Voting (2) ( Aronis - Gemini Blind)

With twelve alive, it takes seven to lynch.
Current Deadline:

(expired on 2014-09-13 15:35:00)

Seriously, shut the fuck up. I'm sick of your condescending attitude.

P-edit:
Done with you too. If you can't see the problem with focusing on ONE person for the entire day then I have no words for you.

[Xayzeck]

So im l-2 or 1 so im doing this now i guess

Kill Elyse

Still town.

This is a good kill

[Elyse]

No really?

I wouldn't have known that was your opinion considering your entire ISO is about how I'm scummy with nothing to back it up.

[Xayzeck]

with nothing to back it up.

I'm sure as hell i've done this already

[Elyse]

And I've dismantled every point and you just ignore it.

[Xayzeck]

And I've dismantled every point and you just ignore it.

no you didn't

you said "I've already answered those the best I can" or something along those lines

but most of the problems I have are with your answers

where exactly did you dismantle my case?

[Elyse]

My vote on Xay was (is?) purely pressure and I'm kinda getting a town vibe. He's hyper defensive and I think it's just how he is. But my vote is still on there because I haven't found a new home for it yet.

No I can tell from your posts.

I don't have a problem with it...see this is exactly what I'm talking about. You are hyper defensive, but I think it's just your personality and playstyle, not alignment indicative.

My vote is still on you because I don't really have a scumread. (I know it's bad, but not much is happening) I was thinking Sala, maybe, but his 207 read as town and I kind of agree with it. PV could be scum.

Where is this hyper defensiveness you're seeing? If it wasn't playstyle would it be scum indicative?

What do you dislike about PV or Sala?

It's in all of your posts. It might be indicative of newbscum if not a playstyle.

I do agree that Sala's early posts seemed noncommittal and only theory-based, but I don't think his recent content has been bad and he seems alright now.

PerV's ISO has a large chunk about just horoscopes and I feel like his Salamence vote is meh, though he's pretty open about just sheeping his townread Nacho. He's a player I usually get a gut feeling about and my gut says scum.

I guess I'll start there.

VOTE: PeregrineV

@SC
I have reads - just not scumreads. But now I'm voting PerV.

@Rolls
Salamence's sentiments toward Xay are similar to how I feel about him. He explained it pretty well himself. I also agree that PerV's vote was weak and I am also scumreading him.

What Elsye did is she started out with a (i think sort of)scumread on me, which was bad enough as it is because she never explained how it was scum indicative, and then dismissed it herself through metatells(maybe because of Nacho), yet keeps her vote on me(maybe because of Sala).

I voted you because you seemed easily excitable and would react under pressure. I thought I would be able to discern your alignment through pressuring you, but it seems as though your hyper defensiveness is just playstyle and not alignment indicative. I came to this conclusion because you are being defensive about everything - even things that aren't alignment indicative. I kept my vote on you because I didn't really have anyone else to move it to, and it's not like I'm townreading you or anything.

@Rolls: Like I said, it's possible Elyse is just sitting around waiting for something to happen, but then why isn't she voting me. She has stated she would be fine with my lynch, but why hasn't she voted me. It could be a reach for townie points.

When did I say that?

Why do you have such a problem with people townreading me?

How do you deduce that Xayzeck has a problem with people townreading you? He responded to this with a reasonable question and you blew him off.

Since the beginning he's been gunning for me since I put pressure on him in RVS. It's in his tone. He's always questioning people's reads on me.

I responded sarcastically because it was a dumb question. Obviously I am serious.

Why didn't you just say that the first time? I genuinely wondered if you thought I was kidding.

It's not like I asked some asinine question...and is your read on me strong enough to compare me to garbage music? Like I don't understand the vitriol with which you are acting toward me and your scumread on me. It just seems over the top when your case boils down to...actually I don't know. Your vote was out of the blue.

Why are you voting me?

[Elyse]

Basically your case is "Elyse voted me in RVS and then said I wasn't scummy and my hyperdefensiveness was playstyle and not alignment indicative. I don't know how she determined this because she didn't look at my meta. And she kept her vote on me."

My response - again - is that I voted you because your reactive nature made me think it would be easy to read you if you had pressure on you. When you reacted to everything I posted rather than just the stuff I expected you to react to, I realized your hyperdefensiveness is just playstyle. I kept my vote on you because I didn't have anywhere else to move it.

[Aronis]

Elyse is really really really town atm. Hopefully she wont die.

If she does, Sala's kill was careless and probably scum.

[Xayzeck]

The reasons you voted me in RVS are fine, what isn't fine is you said my playstyle was hyperdefensive, and what I don't get is how you can conclude that by just looking at this game. If in other game I wasn't hyperdefensive, then wouldn't that mean something? Also, I never got a definite answer to where my hyperdefensiveness is, an example would've been nice at the time.

And now that you've decided that voting me wouldn't work anymore, why didn't you move your vote? I pushed you to voice what you disliked about PV and Sala, and then you voted someone else, when you could have done that a long time before. You were able to take a stance on PV, but you didn't until I asked you about your PVread. So for the entire time you were voting me because you didn't have a new home for your vote, when in fact you DID have a new place for your vote (PV that is)

I recall also having problems on your Sala and PV stances

And fluff questions, especially that "why do you have a problem with people townreading me". That bugged the hell out of me, because it was pretty clear I was scumreading you, so obviously I'd have problems if people were townreading you.

I think that's pretty much my case in a nutshell. Your response to my case doesn't actually address the problems I have with you. You're telling me why you voted me in RVS, which I don't have a problem with. I have a problem with how you concluded it was playstyle without checking up my meta, which you don't tell me here. If you didn't check it with meta, it isn't reliable, you avoid taking a stance on me(and on everyone else, kind of) and just vote park me, which I don't see townmotivation in(even more so that you actually could have voted PV).

[ToastyToast]

Ugh. Yeah Salamance lynch should happen at this point.

But I do think Elyse-Xayzeck has at least one scum. It just seems...fake? Between Xay's analogies and Elyse's "I'm feeling so attacked right now and I just came here to have a good time" posting, I'm left wondering what they are even arguing over.

There's not really much arguing, it's just me pushing my scumread.

What do you feel is fake?

Well, I am a player that acts largely on gut, but I'll give a few examples of where I'm getting it. from your end it has to do with the effort put into the push. From Elyse's side its her reaction to people pushing her. From your side it feels like you are pushing her for being lazy, but your logic isn't exactly filled with energy. For example,

There's so little effort to read me here, and so much of looking good to good players while still staying on a small, supported, safe wagon, which I think to be scum.

Given the slow pace of the game, would it not be typical for some players to try to look at meta? I guess I'm not quite comprehending why you think its scummy. I'm not very familiar with your meta either, but you DO seem to be getting defensive with regards to how she sees your playstyle. Its almost as if you are trying to derail her credibility rather than

Also, as a side note, what exactly was the purpose of this?

And are there seriously 2 people on me based on one post? You have 11 pages and somehow my slot voting Sayscyek is the scummiest thing in the game?

you aren't the biggest wagon

thus you aren't the scummiest thing in the game

I think its pretty obvious that I'm referring to the people voting me here. From their perspective, I was "scummiest" from one point.

Why didn't you just say that the first time? I genuinely wondered if you thought I was kidding.

Because it was a dumb question, did you expect me to take it seriously?

Like I don't understand the vitriol with which you are acting toward me and your scumread on me.

I don't see what there is to understand? I scumread you, and I don't know why people are townreading you, so I ask them. It's that simple, I don't even know why you bothered to ask why I questioned others' townreads on you in the first place.

These are some of the other interactions that made me ping. Instead of really attacking her/pushing her, you have this..."why do I have to talk to you right now?" attitude. Then, on her end, she seems really angry with the fact that you are pushing-her-but-not-really.

There's just a lot of unnecessary banter.

[ToastyToast]

Given the slow pace of the game, would it not be typical for some players to try to look at meta? I guess I'm not quite comprehending why you think its scummy. I'm not very familiar with your meta either, but you DO seem to be getting defensive with regards to how she sees your playstyle. Its almost as if you are trying to derail her credibility rather than

Something got deleted here.

"Its almost as if you are trying to derail her credibility rather than give her any chance to change your mind."

[Gemini Blind]

VOTE: Xayzeck

Your Salemence alternative™

Probably the most likely to receive heat enough to be a viable alternative cross referenced with a player I might want to lynch.
(there's no way this is happening but I'm going to try anyway.)

Here's what I think.
PeregrineV: unknown
Salamence20: town
Xayzeck: maybe scum. Not a fan of his interactions with Elyse. Both of them kind of have a one track mind, but I don't know, Elyse just feels more genuine.
Aronis: unknown. Not a fan, would lynch.
ToastyToast: town
StrangerCoug: gave me scum vibes early on, now null.
Gemini Blind: two awesome two lynch/nightkill (GET IT?!?!? HAHAHA moving on).
Dry-fit: seems town now especially recently.
CrashTextDummie: don't like burn, need more from CTD
Nachomamma8: kicks up dust, doesn't give a lot of info. An early read list isn't too helpful.
Elyse: seems town
Iecerint: null. would probably lynch, his content has dropped considerably.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

VOTE: Salamence

I protest but there's like 5 hours left and I guess it really is Salamence or nothing. That's a really bad situation to be in. If nothing else I guess we will get some info.

I hope Dryfit planned on doing something after his unvote and not end the day not voting.

There's no way to tell if the syntax is correct anyway so having someone say Kill: XXX doesn't prove anything. I would not be surprised if scum has the dayvig and we kind of let them have free reign of it. I know it's pessimistic and I know I'm annoying about this but I can't shake that feeling. The worse case scenario is devastating: scum get a free kill. Trade for a power role, make LYLO come one day early without warning, that's all I'm thinking about. There's little to be lost just knowing who has the dayvig. Maybe town has it but if they get nightkilled tonight, well that sucks for us. I don't plan on talking about this D2; I think it was too distracting to spend so much time wondering about the dayvig.

I apologize for my role in the apathy in this game; I know I have hardly been present even when I've been posting. If Salamence is town, which I think is true, we made it pretty easy for scum today. There were too many distractions. Good luck tomorrow. (and if I'm wrong and Salamence is scum then fuck me, I dunno what I'm talking about (except Dry-fit's unvote becomes suspect. Also nacho could be scum trying to drum up a wagon on Iecerint to protect his buddy until he couldn't do so anymore.).)

~STD

[Aronis]

VOTE: Salamence

[Salamence20]

If my shot resets the count, which I think it does, then lol.

[CrashTextDummie]

Hammer without a claim. Please lynch Aronis tomorrow. Please also make Dry-Fit answer to my last post addressed to him.

The fact that the mod has not processed Salamance's kill (assuming it's real) more than 12 hours after the fact would have warranted a deadline extension.

[Elyse]

Salamence why did you shoot me and did you read the game before doing so

[Dry-fit]

That wasn't hammer CTD. I unvoted so it's only six. I'll get to your points about my case later but for now I'll say vote hopping is not the same as naked voting. A player could only place on vote in a day and it can be a naked vote.

I'm pretty sure Salamence is scum if Elyse is town.

I'm here to hammer before deadline.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Possibly ill; LA.

[CrashTextDummie]

If it wasn't a hammer, I request a deadline extension and/or an Aronis speedwagon. Alternatively a Salamance fullclaim.

[CrashTextDummie]

I'll get to your points about my case later but for now I'll say vote hopping is not the same as naked voting. A player could only place on vote in a day and it can be a naked vote.

Even if the reasoning is different, you were still criticizing the same vote. The way I read it, Salamance was offering his own interpretation of why the vote was problematic in direct response to you:

My number 2 suspect would probably be PV. I really don't like that ToastyToast vote.

PV is scum with toasty.

I don't like naked votes. Also I don't like voting a player this far into the game who hasn't really provided content. You still haven't explained your vote.

Been posting my thoughts. If you're looking for something in particular, you can ask.

So you think the only thing I should look at to determine whether I like a vote or not is my read on the player it's on?

PV is votehopping.

Squirm baby squirm

It's pretty clear that you were just using different words to scrutinize the same action. What you really need to address is how this was opportunism on Salamance's part and why you later called PV's voting behavior "not particularly alignment indicative".

[Aronis]

It's L-1? Anyways, that shot was terrible. He deserves to die.

[Dry-fit]

Terrible why? Elyse was arguably the town's second suspect after Sal. So if he wanted to use the shot as a second lynch Elyse was a good choice.

[Gemini Blind]

Terrible why? Elyse was arguably the town's second suspect after Sal. So if he wanted to use the shot as a second lynch Elyse was a good choice.

I don't think that is true. The shot is terrible in my opinion, I was reading Elyse as town personally and I know I'm not alone.

That said I'm not particularly happy with Aronis's vote and post offerings.

~STD