NY 177: Simple Complexity (GAME OVER: Scum Wins!)

[tn5421]

preferred lynches:

pv (probably the scum in our hood, seemed too informed about gamestate / nothing here and trying to collect townreads in our hood / earlier trying not to narrow down our hood until i pushed on him)
tn (feeling the scum meta, similarly to recent open whatevernumber that feirei+caled just modded)

mirhawk place your vote on pv because they're prob a scumteam anyway

open 569

and lol

[tn5421]

So yeah went back and reread Aero.

Several things stick out to me.
-All of Aero's posts regarding TN are conversational, rather then inquisitive. This isn't really a trend I noticed with anyone else. This may be due to them being in a neighborhood however. More then once he posts solely for the purpose of ridiculing votes on TN.
-Aero claimed there were five people in his neighborhood. Neither he nor the other people in his neighborhood ever corrected this. This may be because his teammates were lurkers/not reading the game/not in the neighborhood though.
-Notscience is unlikely to be on a team with Aero. Same with Oka.
-Aero's choice to investigate Titus was odd. Why would a fakeclaimed gunsmith investigate the only person in the game likely to actually have a gun. Who he was going to claim to investigate would have been discussed by the scumteam overnight, so why Titus.
-Aero had tons of interaction with Tree's wagon. But despite that, his incessant flipping back and forth on his opinions makes it impossible to determine where he actually stood.
-Aero's meltdown during his argument with notscience makes me think that he was frustrated that his teammates weren't of much help. He flat out states that he's "Tired of being the scum in charge of the game".

Another thing that occurred to me a while ago is that neighbor status isn't revealed upon flip. It's fairly unlikely that scum took advantage of this, as GP and Aero had claimed neighborhood status before we even learned this. I don't think it's relevant, but there's no harm in pointing it out.

---

The people voting me should probably READ MY ISO or something to try and determine if I'm town or not. That would be real cool.

---

Aero doesn't really say anything to Peregrine that he doesn't say to at least a couple other people, so there's nothing to go on in regards to that.

Peregrine is an okay lynch i guess. But I would hardly call it good.

Vote: TN

I'm going to reread Peregrine.

I had a townread on aero for some time, it makes sense that he whiteknighted me in order to keep me townreading him i guess.
I didn't want to out that I was in his neighborhood at the time, but we only have 4 people that should be in the neighborhood (but royalape seems to be posting in the hood still, so it really is 5 now)

[gameplay506]

I dont like MIR and I see people voting him. Thats why i vote him

[Mirhawk]

@TN
I was under the impression the neighborhood was TN / Aero / Gameplay / Royalape.

Who's the fifth person?

@Gameplay
You haven't updated your scumread on me since you gave it to me for attacking Aero. Read my ISO, why do you think I'm scum?

@Titus
If you want to investigate me then by all means, I'm sure it'll be fun. But don't pretend that Aero's choice of who he was going to investigate wasn't strange.
You were softing cop day one. Why would he pick the only player likely to immediately reveal his claim was false. Assuming the scumteam is stupid is bad play, and this is something they would have discussed between themselves.

This is a perfectly valid observation to make an I'm a little insulted that you're calling it scummy.

[Psyche]

im just gonna sheep my dude

vote pv

if i dont regain control over my life by tomrrw i will just go

[Skybird]

Mirhawk - I replaced RoyalApe so I am the "fifth" person in that neighborhood.

[Alina]

Going to actually catch up and post in detail after lunch, I promise <3 sorry for the wait

LOL though, I can't decide if RoyalApe continuing to post in the neighborhood after being replaced out is hilarious or not.

[Mirhawk]

Ah that makes sense.

[PeregrineV]

Monday- back!

[PeregrineV]

Titus - The Cop
zMuffinMan - Probably Town
Majiffy - Probably Town
PeregrineV - Unknown
Reinoe - Cleared by Cop
alina --- Need more
mirhawk - Probably scum
notscience - Unknown
Shaddowez - Probably scum
RoyalApe - Unknown
tn5421 - Unknown
gameplay506 - Cleared by cop
Marquis - Mason
Psyche - Mason
OkaPoka - Doctor

There we go. If scum kill outside that group... then they got problems coming down the pike. Even if the masons are scum (I doubt it). They'll run into issues with too many clears soon enough.

@Titus-

Really curious why you think there are 2 scum in the Mir/Oka/Shadow hood.
And why you believe the Marquis claim?

FIXED

Neighborhoods (I think)

marquis/

titus

/

pv

/

texcat

tn5421/

aero

/

gameplay

/royalape
Mirhawk/

Aegor

/Oka/Shadowez

Not in hood

Josh

reinoe

notscience
Muffin

Elyse
TSO

Majiffy
alina
Psyche

[PeregrineV]

I say, who are your scumreads (and why). We then look at your scumreads and see what neighborhood they are in. (hint: 3669)
You answer, then we go from there.

Wagons are made up of scum or town. You look at wagons on town, and try to determine who is town that wanted to lynch who they thought were scum, and who is scum mislynching town. As town voters on the wagon are identified, it increases the likelihood that the remaining players are scum.

I haven't had any really strong scumreads since Aero. I'm operating off a list of players I find the least town instead.

The list currently consists of Majiffy, TN, Peregrine, and Muffin.

Also, yes I realize you were doing vote count analysis. But the posts with with votecounts you posted don't actually contain any analysis. Hence my confusion over them.

You said you needed my reads to continue, I'm not sure why you need them for VCA though.

Now that you have them how about you continue.

You also have scum in 2-1-0 in neighborhoods.

My current analysis is not based so much on the vote count, although I did notice that neighborhoods tend to vote together. I'm mostly basing it off of my opinion of the setup (right or wrong). My goal with the VCs was to insert various scumreads to see if they make sense in the context of the VCs. I'll do that after I catch up.

[PeregrineV]

4 days left

I say we start agreeing on who we should lynch.

It's PV or Mirhawk.

But it's not. And you know it.

[PeregrineV]

Majiffy

- I'll be honest. You and I haven't interacted much this game, and I've been flip flopping your read pretty much every time I read the game. At the time I posted that I was in a time crunch, and the bits that I read that night had me thinking you were sounding a bit scummy. I was very much not a fan of your early game, and at present I'm failing to see your case on Mirhawk, outside of thinking there's a scum in each neighborhood. Do you have any other reasoning for that, because based on interaction in the hood, and his game here, I don't get much of a scum vibe from him.

As for the PV wagon, I'm torn. I'm not entirely convinced either way, though I am starting to lean scum.

The biggest thing driving me right now is I think PV's flip will give us quite a bit of information based on his wagon.

I'd actually prefer a tn lynch, but with less than three days it looks like it's between PV and Mir. Unless I see an extremely good case on Mir, I'm sticking with my previous statement of not voting for him.

Since my vote should be somewhere, I'll stick it here for now

VOTE: Pere

Yech.


We've had 2 large town wagons and a scum wagon, and I have yet to see you try and glean any information from any of those lynches, so your bolded statement above seems very disingenuous. This, along with that whole "I don't know if Pere is town or scum pretending to be town" from 3623 makes this the 2nd cringe-worthy thing from you this gameday.
Looking at the Aero iso, you have 2-3 mentions in passing by him.
Your own views are against Aero lynch day1, but not because you think he is town. You went from 1613 (I don't like Aero) to 2032 (Not convinced Aero is scum). Day2 you are around but manage to not be on the wagon.
Lastly, I kind of liked your early posting as town for the same reason I liked Aero's as town. And we all know that went horribly wrong.

Congrats, you can be the scum in your hood!

[PeregrineV]

preferred lynches:

pv (probably the scum in our hood, seemed too informed about gamestate / nothing here and trying to collect townreads in our hood / earlier trying not to narrow down our hood until i pushed on him)
tn (feeling the scum meta, similarly to recent open whatevernumber that feirei+caled just modded)

mirhawk place your vote on pv because they're prob a scumteam anyway

Doh!!

Since I had Aero's ISO open to look at Mirhawk and Shadow, I decided to check into tree/you.
So far the count is 6 or so "I'm not sure tree is scum", with 2+ counts of "tree is town/VI"

Then this fun one.

Psyche started off extremely not helpful, with distractions and the such. However, he has lately come to his senses and is one of the people questioning the tree votes. I'll talk about my exact thoughts about the tree wagon below.

Tree, everybody, is not scum. People who are lynching him because he's a VI, then if that's the way you vote, I guess that's how you vote. I don't agree with it at all, and I don't think we should be lynching him. However, it's those that claim that your voting him because he's scum that I'm interested in. Let's take a look.

And TSO's 1103

And this from you.

I've been a major part of trying to talk Titus down from the Aero lynch, moving discussion and thoughts away from "there must be scum in every neighborhood", and so on.

You think tn and Aero were scum in the same hood.....

[PeregrineV]

Looked over early tree/psyche stuff. Tree does declaratives that psyche is town, psyche said tree is town, but usually with qualifiers ("because _______"). If they are scum together, then it was planned pre-game, because it can be seen seeded throughout early posts.

However, if this is somehow true, then that would make the scum in our hood Titus. Since I think Titus is fully capable of fakeclaiming BP macho cop as scum and running with it as far and fast as possible, then Marquis as mason would be doubly vexing. To this end, Titus shoudl be lynched in the next few days if she is still alive, if for no reason but to confirm her innocents.

Outside possibility of Marquis and Titus both town, but then we would be an all-town neighborhood. And then, if one, why not two?

Uggh.

Vote: Shadow

[PeregrineV]

Rereading Peregrine

-His interaction with the day one lynch sucks. It looks kind of like he's mocking the players who are trying to get a lynch by being abjectly unhelpful.

Was against an Aero lynch, and felt Aegor was town since we've had a lot of recent games together. So, yes, generally against lynches of my townreads. Not sure about mocking, but maybe, since I think I;'m capable of being snarky sometimes.

-PV's 2798 drives me nuts. It stands out to me EVERY time I go back. It's a zip code in Texas, but that's all I got.

It's just a countdaown to never, since I have/had Marquis as scum.

-PV addresses the five man neighborhood. Never mentions that again. This may be irrelevant.

Might have been trying to clarify. Since there might be 5 scum, it might have been a slip on someone's part. Who was I talking to or about? Post#?

-PV shimmies up nice and tight to Aero during day one. Then is conspicuously absent during day two when Titus throws down. Dunno if the second part matters since he has several periods of inactivity scattered around the game.

Yes. I thought he was town, and the claim made sense with 2-scumteam setup (which it turned out not to be). Titus direct counterclaim obviously makes a difference from Aero's claim, but day2 started on Saturday and ended Sunday, and for the most part I don't mafia much on weekends (see my sig).

-~3500ish seems to become more involved with game.

scumflip and 4 townflips means more fuel for scumhunting. And natually the minute I start posting, everyone else shuts down. Kind of used to it at this point, but annoying nonetheless.

-Lots of posts that I would classify as noise/setup speculation/offtopic.

Noise?
Off-topic?
hmmmm...unlikely.

Set-up speculation? Yes. Because it can be used to find scum.

I dunno, his insistence that Aero was town is the only thing that really stands out to me. His play isn't really town, but isn't really scum either. What do you got on him?

@Peregrine
What's your thoughts on no lynches?

They can be useful. Now is probably not the time for them. Check your neighborhood Shadow posting. How does it compare to main thread?

Why were you being so unhelpful at the end of day one?

Didn't want Aero lynch, didn't want Aegor lynched.

[Alina]

Oh. I kept putting this off because I thought I had like 50 pages to read. I have like 10. alol.

TN's #3488 comes across really fake to me. :/ Like why are you yelling and caps locking and bolding? Rubs me the wrong way.

~

To be honest, I forgot the whole Pere case. Can someone link me to the main posts to do with it?

~

Hey Alina lemme know when you're on

I'll back and forth with you so you don't have to get worked up over other people doing stupid shit

hello talk to me bae

~

OH MY GOD MARQUIS SHOWED MULTIPLE POSTS THAT SHOWED THEM BOTH CRUMBING AS MASONS. DID YOU ALL MISS IT? DO I NEED TO LINK IT TO YOU?

~

TN is kind of the same for me. Scummy, but just kind of there.

~

Good points on Pere by Mirhawk, actually. I should probably ISO him myself later.

~

Actually now that I think about it, I dislike his other posts for different reasons. These ones are a bit of a rough fit for his regular behavior.

...what? Can you elaborate?

~

What exactly is the point of posting stuff like this? Like really. If you don't have anything remotely useful to say please stop posting. It makes catching up incredibly irritating, and the fact that you attack people for "lurking" just for having less posts than you because they don't post useless crap like this is irritating as heckie.

Not to nitpick, but you called his posts useless crap (a lot of them are) and then proceed to make 55% of your post responses to Oka's crap posts?

Pretty much yeah lmao. I just am in shock that people are not seeing what I'm seeing when it comes to him. He's just really bad. I'm trying to point it out...but he claimed doctor, so he's obviously town, right?

~

Based on this, and the night kills I would lean towards Alina being the serial killer, even though I have a town lean on her.

Serial Killer is obviously someone who doesn't know what the fuck they're doing.

1. Very flattering.

2. It's impossible for me to be the serial killer, unless you think Josh_B breadcrumbed he would roleblock me and then decided to roleblock someone else.

~

I actually kind of liked PereV's last couple posts.

~

WHO THE HELL IS ZMUFFINMAN? I keep forgetting he's in this game. Can I get reads from you or something? Who even are you?

~

Oh yeah. Skybird exists. You have any recent thoughts since last you posted?

~

I don't know or care. But probably.

...Why would you not care...?

~

my main scumreading of him was lurking.

Do you...I...honestly it's stuff like this that makes me think you're just a VI, but...ugh.

~

I'm actually getting a bit suspicious of Alina, surprisingly enough.

Do tell. Why?

i think oka is scum but, theoretically, correct play here is letting night actions sort that. there's at least two killing parties and, if oka is neither of them, he needs to be killed some time soon (and in the mean time he has to protect the claimed cop which isn't a bad thing)

im kind of meh on all the other wagons. PV could be scum i suppose but i dunno how that fits with oka being scum

<this has been a prod dodge>

The thing is, "apparently" he only has one shot left. It would be useless for either scum to kill him at all, in my opinion. I don't see him being killed. I'd rather just lynch him because I don't see him dying at night. :/

~

Yeah, why the hell are people even voting Mirhawk? Is stuff just flying above my head? At least Reinoe explained the reasoning behind PV but with Mirhawk I've seen nothing. Just random "Vote: Mirhawk"s.

~

Why are people voting for Mirhawk when we could be lynching PeregrineV.

Nobody is actually making any sort of case on Mirhawk.

Yeah I've noticed this trend.

PV is kind of summy, I might be more inclined for someone else on my list at the moment though. Jiffy or TN.

I could go for TN if people REALLY don't want to lynch Oka. -_-

~

Ugh. Fuck it. Looks like it's going to be Pere or TN or Mirhawk or something and TN is the one I feel most comfortable voting for. I'll compile a couple reasons(I know I've pointed out some things I didn't like in previous posts).

VOTE: tn5421

~

And Mirhawk makes fun points too in #3795. <3

~

I dont like MIR and I see people voting him. Thats why i vote him

WHY DON'T YOU LIKE HIM THOUGH? Just because you have a cop clear on you doesn't mean you don't have to give reasoning for reads lol...

~

I like 3812. I wanna ISO Shaddowez now too(even though he's been radiating town to me PV still makes points worth consideration here)

[PeregrineV]

I think Titus is pushing Mirhawk because of his place in Areo's 959 reads. I can kind of see that, but would rather Shadow in that hood.

[PeregrineV]

WHO THE HELL IS ZMUFFINMAN? I keep forgetting he's in this game. Can I get reads from you or something? Who even are you?

A player that should be lynched.

[Majiffy]

at present I'm failing to see your case on Mirhawk, outside of thinking there's a scum in each neighborhood. Do you have any other reasoning for that, because based on interaction in the hood, and his game here, I don't get much of a scum vibe from him.

Just widdling down by POE. I'm getting to that detached point I usually get to in larges where I stop giving a fuck until I absolutely need to.

I really want Marquis and Psyche lynched but that isn't going to happen until we get a vig or an investigative guilty on one of them.

...Why would you not care...?

Because scumhunting based on something that was probably randomly distributed is fucking stupid.

[Alina]

Oh yeah. That is kind of suspect. I totally forgot about all that, but I do remember thinking that Mirhawk did jack shit to deserve being that high in his reads then.

Pedit: Are neighborhoods typically randomly distributed? I thought that they'd be mod-chosen, but maybe I'm wrong.

[notscience]

They are

[notscience]

They are mod chosen*

[Alina]

Do you still want to talk about stuff

I'm really lazy when it comes to pointing out certain posts. Discuss stuff with me. I'm bored lol.

[notscience]

I really don't want to do anything atm but that's not really based on this game

Wasn't Tn in aero's hood?