In post 295, wgeurts wrote:Hmmm... Monkey man is playing differently this game a quick search of his posts shows. Though DeathState seemingly not caring and changing his vote to MonkeyMan when seemingly under fire is odd. No ones going for a no lynch so I'll go with VOTE: DeathStare.
I literally have no idea what you're trying to say here.
In post 298, wgeurts wrote:My read on scum at the moment is:
DS and Monkey
In post 300, wgeurts wrote:Also voting monkey if my gut is right would make monkey seem alot less scummy in the case of DS' es death.
Ok, no really, what are you even talking about? I don't understand what your train of thought is.
In post 316, MonkeyMan wrote:Something that really bothers me is people writing off someone who is being scummy as just being new. Yes new people make mistakes but that isn't a reason to not lynch someone.
You're confusing your participles. The things you are pointing to are nulls at best. Trying to make them out to be scum tells and trying to convince us he's making newbie scum mistakes doesn't change the fact that they're nulls.
Difference of opinion I guess. I will get the lynch eventually.
In post 320, MonkeyMan wrote:A lot of people already scum read you so I see no point to pursue that either. I also feel like you have more than 2 votes on you but the votecount says otherwise.
....
I remember people thinking you were scummy and I thought you had at least 4 votes on you. I actually thought you had more votes than me which is where my disinterest came from.
Newbie tells are going to come from newbies regardless of their alignment.
– yes, but as for Wgeurts, he could have chosen a much less risky gameplay if he were scum. What's your opinion about this?
The answer for your previous question (about the DS wagon). I saw too possibilities at that point. Either it emerged because their posts contained too little content compared to their amount or a scum (or scums?) rode it to push it to an easy-lynch. 278 – I see. What's your read on Davesaz now?
GrayFox, 280 – I'm simply unable to read this post. 282 – I see, but have you reached anything by doing that?
In post 249, Aneninen wrote:"nero and monkey are good lynches atm, but it was easier to leave my vote on nero than CHECK THE VC and CLICK THE TAGS BUTTON and PREVIEW MY POST." – good lynches? Isn't it a bit strong on Page6?
"atm" stands for "at the moment." As in, if we were lynching RIGHT THEN, it should have been one of those two.
Aneninen wrote:Also, why is it important to check the VC before voting for someone? (
the post has been edited by me
) ...
I don't care to count up the votes, so I don't know if someone is near lynch. (...) Plus I want to look at wagon development; at this stage of the game a wagon made up of my townreads or scumreads will influence my opinions.
I can agree with the latter part but the former part is still strange.
In post 285, sthar8 wrote:
No. I'm attacking the behavior, and ridicule is a powerful behavior modification tool. I'm not interested in either capitulating or accommodating for fox, so it's better to get this out of the way now than to hand scum a free policy lynch later.
Are you saying that GrayFox may be policy lynched later?
In post 285, sthar8 wrote:
I'm sorry you've never met grumpy-sthar before, but it is definitely something that happens when someone acts aggressively and I'm on particular mood phases. There are players in the game who can testify to it being nonindicative of alignment, if you're worried about it.
Okay. Since the fact that your gameplay is very different from the one I know is a strong point why I scumread you, let's sort this question out for good, shall we?
Can you link two games you were in
from scratch
? A one where you were town and another where you were scum.
In post 267, Heartless wrote:so what do you call what anenien's doing right now?
Watching pidgeon porn, forming bad meta reads, and lurker hunting?
Lurker hunting and pushing easy lynches are not the same thing, though they can come from the same motivation. ... (
Post has been edited by me
)
I explained in my previous post why I scumread Stavrogin, Massive (and maybe 50Shades) and it's not
only
about lurking.
As for "pushing easy lynches" – I think there would be much easier lynches right now.
"Ok, everyone here is so much better at mafia than on the other forum. Any articles anywhere I can read to improve?"
– wait-oh, I've already told you that you can find articles on the wiki.mafiascum.net... Ben je aan het lezen het spel? ^_^ (Are you reading the game at all?)
Heartless wrote:
>(1) "lean scum", "lean town" /fart
>(2) a million qualifiers for sthar's scum read that all end up going fucking nowhere: "i'm gonna use this and that meta, but it's totes different from this game; also this post is town"
> (3) all that aaaaaaaaaaaand the vote ends up on...... mr. lurkaderp no posts
>the monkeyman read is an undeveloped turd sculpture (of course it's "lean" scum)
> (4) 50 shades magically gets a pass on this
very very serious and rigorous
"activity" standard because apparently we can't look at the playerlist and SEE WHO THE MAIN ACCOUNTS BEHIND THE HYDRA ARE. they're listed. right. there.
> (5) nero's scumreads are so
weird
even though they all fall in the "null" section
> (6) GOD EVEN THE TOWNREADS come with some shitty modifier. ... (
Post has been edited by me
)
(7) the vote never materializes and the scumread never crystallizes, though.
(...)
(1) What's your problem with that? Many players, including me use those cathegories.
(2) Wrong: there were two basic reasons. His unwillingness to reveal his thoughts and his gameplay which is different from the one I know. Why did I name
one
post which was townie? Because I examine everything and I change my reads if many things contradict them. Ignoring things that don't fit in your reads is a terrible townplay. (Which is a bad thing because sometimes scums do the same thing intentionally.)
(3) Check my previous post about that. Again: it's not the lurking which is scummy. Lurking while being active elsewhere IS scummy.
(4) I wrote about that too in my previous post. By the way, you can answer my general questions about hydras.
(5) It's not a null section, it's an Unsure/Unsorted section. Null = I have no read. Unsure = I'm unable to read. Nero is the latter one.
(6) Even if I have a townread on someone I note the disturbing things. Though, I must admit, that's more like a reminder for myself.
(7) I don't understand this.
Wguerts, 295 – erm... so, do you think MonkeyMan is scummy because his gameplay is different and do you vote for DeathStare because you think they want to save themselves?
Sthar8, 296 – I've read that spoiler. Again, link those game pretty please! I start "MissMarple-ing" you. (That word is invented by me: I use it when someone resembles me to another player I met before. The flip of that "another player" may be a piece of information on the player's alignment whom I play with.) 302 – Why?
Massive, 309 – Why do you wish to sheep Heartless (Antihero)?
"re: the only game I played with anem I mislynched him in lylo. it was his newbie game and I see the same tone he took there as he is doing in this game. he wants to be a teacher."
Fuck.
You've just profession-read me. I
am
a teacher.
I'm going on soon but I need to think about something. This sentence pointed out something very important for me.
I was mainly agreeing with anti-heart but his accusation that I was fluffy or didn't have any content or whatever is absolutely ridiculous.
There are accusations, votes, and combinations of the two. Accusations may be baseless, weak, or very strong. All of these are scum hunting methods designed to generate responses which may strengthen or weaken reads.
Whether people read my posting correctly, and how hard they try to push an incorrect read, are indicators too. The same applies to their reactions and approaches to other players.
So you are saying that you made up a baseless accusation to judge my reaction?
In post 285, sthar8 wrote:As for the people pushing him, there's very little difference between "pushing the newbie because he won't know how to defend himself" and "bussing the newbie because he won't know how to defend himself"
Why are you using the word bussing here?
I mean, he voted no lynch when there's was no good reason to and then fear mongered that we "might lynch a special". Having a gut scum reaction over that is natural 'cause none of that is pro-town at all. So you and Dave and whomever saying "OH WAIT DON'T LYNCH A NEWBIE" when this could easily come from newb scum as well kinda looks like scum knowing that he's town.
Why do you have a town read on him?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
This doesn't really go for this game but I've realized something.
I'm playing like a teacher.
Mollie. I know that my Day1 was terrible in that Newbie and I've always thought that we lost that LyLo because you didn't believe me that I had solved the game on Day3. I was wrong. We lost it because I tried to explain everything in overly-detailed long walls. I dug up everything about the scums, and I explained, explained and explained. As if it had been obvious that you had known I'd been telling the truth.
I'm explaining everything all the time, answering all questions all the time and get surprised that some players disagree with my posts. And in that situation what am I waiting for? Obviously, detailed explanations why I am wrong because I want to be convinced that my reads are wrong.
By the way, Antihero, I think the story was the same in BPC's game. I explained everything about the setup and got annoyed because the players didn't see the things in the similar way. They were right, after all, I was the only one who knew that I was town. (And what happened next, after you left the game? I salvaged every pieces of information and after I realized that I was unable to use them I got frozen and watched how the town loses the game.)
I think I must change. Enough about theories and long walls of explanations. I'm getting nowhere by doing this.
_____
As for the rest of the posts, and I'm trying to make it short:
In post 289, wgeurts wrote:Ok, everyone here is so much better at mafia than on the other forum. Any articles anywhere I can read to improve?
Since I am better that means my reads are better which means my scum read on you is right.
this is a scum claim.
Uhh. The first sentence is simply terrible but calling someone scum based upon a reasoning like this is terrible-squared. Your case in 316 is also bad.
@Massive. Post more, start scumhunting and my reads can change. If you want my reads to be changed at all.
@MTD. It's not only about lurking, as I said before. But read the first part of this post above. Maybe you're right, my theory is shyt and I should focus on this particular game instead of theories.
In post 335, Aneninen wrote:We lost it because I tried to explain everything in overly-detailed long walls. I dug up everything about the scums, and I explained, explained and explained.
I want to point this out in particular, mainly because I want to make sure this is clear before this slot starts getting put under fire for it: I rarely ever read walls. If I don't read a post, that's probably why.
I've been seeing quite a few walls up to this point and it's starting to get annoying.
In post 213, Heartless wrote:Death Stare:
You suspect MonkeyMan because his vote on wgeurt is "bad" because (reasons). Then, you argue that after Nacho called him out on having a bad vote, MonkeyMan shoehorned in another reason to vote wgeurt. This is evidenced by (something). These are the reasons for your MonkeyMan vote.
Is all that correct, and if so, could you please fill in the missing links?
tl;dr
(reasons) = didn't bother to state them again after Nacho stated them already.
(something) = multiple factors. The timing of the post (as in, I think as town in general would say something about nacho's comment on his reason for vote being wrong first), and the tone of the post (the way he posted that post suggests that he was looking for other reason to justify his vote while silently ditching his first reason that nacho called bad).
I can actually follow that logic pretty well. You thought MonkeyMan was going after something that was easy to push and then shoehorning reasons in for voting wgeur after the fact. It seems very similar to the argument sthar8 is making.
In post 303, Heartless wrote:every time i look at this thread and don't see a 50 shades post
my heart breaks
twice
100 pieces of antihero heart.... /sigh
ffs have patience, I haven't synched with nacho about this game yet
re: the only game I played with anem I mislynched him in lylo. it was his newbie game and I see the same tone he took there as he is doing in this game. he wants to be a teacher.
his pushes were awful, he was all worried about when the gm would flip lynches like I could not stay off of him and thought he was a terribad alt for the longest time. I am not willing to commit the same mistakes twice. but I totally get why you think he is scummy I just think we would actually have to see him as scum.
nacho voted deathy2 and I am waiting to connect with him about a couple of things. gun to head dave looks off. I have you guyz as firm town and if nacho flakes on me (which he better not) you guyz are who I will be centering around.
iln
If Anti's ever bugging you, feel free to give him a kick. I agree he could use a lesson in patience.
Your post implies that you have some sort of experience with Anenien. I'm inferring that he was town in the game you're talking about. Are you saying that you think his performance in that game was similar to this one?
I'm having a little trouble myself in orienting myself this game as well, mostly due to the distinct lack of townreads. The only townreads I have right now is MTD, Death Stare, and sthar8 (Antihero agreed with my MTD one last time we talked), but that's very inadequate. I need more and I need Antihero to be on board with them. Compounding this problem is that it feels like Antihero himself hasn't quite hit his stride this game. But I'm not sure; maybe he's right about Anenien and I'm just a blathering fool for doubting him.
The problem with the MonkeyMan case is that I'm not really sold on it. Monkeyman himself reads a lot like an awkward teenager and I think that's getting him votes, and I don't see anything particularly offensive in his ISO. If sthar could tell me more about his vote on MonkeyMan, I would appreciate it because I can't quite make it from Point A to Point B on this issue.
GrayFoxx is bothersome because most of his activity's been concerned with engaging in a petty slap fight with sthar8. I feel like at the core, GrayFoxx's push boils down to "sthar didn't explain himself
exactly when I wanted him to
" which seems like a very shallow reason to push sthar almost exclusively like he's done all game. Antihero's never told me that temporarily withholding explanations is a scumtell (in fact, I noticed that Antihero himself tends to do this as town
frequently
) and it doesn't feel like a good reason to adopt tunnel vision like GrayFoxx seems to have.
Nero Cain could really stand to be more transparent with his logic and arguments. His Death Stare vote seems very stale and I still don't quite understand it.
At first glance, davesaz's recent activity
certainly
has been better than his opening activity. I haven't really had time to mull them over yet, though.
There is no way in hell someone could have taken that post as serious. I mean it was probably the second worst logic anyone has ever used to call someone scum. The first being Anen thinking that was a post meant to be taken as content.
I really do think I have broken this game.
To appease my ego though, what is everyone's read on me?
In post 335, Aneninen wrote:This doesn't really go for this game but I've realized something.
I'm playing like a teacher.
Mollie. I know that my Day1 was terrible in that Newbie and I've always thought that we lost that LyLo because you didn't believe me that I had solved the game on Day3. I was wrong. We lost it because I tried to explain everything in overly-detailed long walls. I dug up everything about the scums, and I explained, explained and explained. As if it had been obvious that you had known I'd been telling the truth.
I'm explaining everything all the time, answering all questions all the time and get surprised that some players disagree with my posts. And in that situation what am I waiting for? Obviously, detailed explanations why I am wrong because I want to be convinced that my reads are wrong.
By the way, Antihero, I think the story was the same in BPC's game. I explained everything about the setup and got annoyed because the players didn't see the things in the similar way. They were right, after all, I was the only one who knew that I was town. (And what happened next, after you left the game? I salvaged every pieces of information and after I realized that I was unable to use them I got frozen and watched how the town loses the game.)
I think I must change. Enough about theories and long walls of explanations. I'm getting nowhere by doing this.
it was never a matter of me not thinking that you were capable of solving the game but more about you shattering your creditability with the abundance of your misreps early on and me listening more to dead!robby's reads more than I shld have.
you also witnessed the nicest that thorella and I have ever been to each other. ever.
I think the biggest mistake you made was getting this weird complex about english or something and it made me disregard everything you said after. thorella tried to warn me from doing this but ugh hindsight.
this is coming from experience; don't post the reasons for every single wild and crazy thought that pops up into your brain. if you are an intuitive player (and it seems like you are) your reasons will make sense only to
you
.
ugh. I am shelving you cos I know how bad you can look in early game. you get a free pass for mislynching you in lingo but it will only last so long.
you are no longer in rome.
Cabd: Does Home Freakin Depot sell sex toys alongside the hardware or something? Because all we have here in California is plain old Home Depot.
Bert: Home Depot sells beef jerky! Hot damn!
Cabd: Does Home Freakin Depot sell sex toys alongside the hardware or something? Because all we have here in California is plain old Home Depot.
Bert: Home Depot sells beef jerky! Hot damn!
In post 337, Heartless wrote:If Anti's ever bugging you, feel free to give him a kick. I agree he could use a lesson in patience.
Your post implies that you have some sort of experience with Anenien. I'm inferring that he was town in the game you're talking about. Are you saying that you think his performance in that game was similar to this one?
unfortunately yes.
I'm having a little trouble myself in orienting myself this game as well, mostly due to the distinct lack of townreads. The only townreads I have right now is MTD, Death Stare, and sthar8 (Antihero agreed with my MTD one last time we talked), but that's very inadequate. I need more and I need Antihero to be on board with them. Compounding this problem is that it feels like Antihero himself hasn't quite hit his stride this game. But I'm not sure; maybe he's right about Anenien and I'm just a blathering fool for doubting him.
The problem with the MonkeyMan case is that I'm not really sold on it. Monkeyman himself reads a lot like an awkward teenager and I think that's getting him votes, and I don't see anything particularly offensive in his ISO. If sthar could tell me more about his vote on MonkeyMan, I would appreciate it because I can't quite make it from Point A to Point B on this issue.
GrayFoxx is bothersome because most of his activity's been concerned with engaging in a petty slap fight with sthar8. I feel like at the core, GrayFoxx's push boils down to "sthar didn't explain himself
exactly when I wanted him to
" which seems like a very shallow reason to push sthar almost exclusively like he's done all game. Antihero's never told me that temporarily withholding explanations is a scumtell (in fact, I noticed that Antihero himself tends to do this as town
frequently
) and it doesn't feel like a good reason to adopt tunnel vision like GrayFoxx seems to have.
Nero Cain could really stand to be more transparent with his logic and arguments. His Death Stare vote seems very stale and I still don't quite understand it.
At first glance, davesaz's recent activity
certainly
has been better than his opening activity. I haven't really had time to mull them over yet, though.
-TTH
agree about star.
disagree about md.
agree about deathy2
agree about greyfox
disagree about nero. I think he is town. why can't he freaking be like this all of the time.
disagree about daves.
Cabd: Does Home Freakin Depot sell sex toys alongside the hardware or something? Because all we have here in California is plain old Home Depot.
Bert: Home Depot sells beef jerky! Hot damn!
In post 337, Heartless wrote:If Anti's ever bugging you, feel free to give him a kick. I agree he could use a lesson in patience.
Your post implies that you have some sort of experience with Anenien. I'm inferring that he was town in the game you're talking about. Are you saying that you think his performance in that game was similar to this one?
unfortunately yes.
I'm going to have to review Anti's points on Anen and see Anen's responses to them before I can have an intelligent conversation about this.
Without actually going back and reading the particular newbie game you're talking about, I'm guessing Anen acted in an antitown manner that made you get a false positive on him. You think that's what's happening with Anti in this particular case?
In post 344, 50 Shades of Purple wrote:agree about star. disagree about md. agree about deathy2. agree about greyfox. disagree about nero. I think he is town. why can't he freaking be like this all of the time. disagree about daves.
When you say "md" are you referring to MTD? If so, I would like to discuss that read further. What do you see that makes you think he's scum?
I'm also interested in what you're thinking regarding MonkeyMan. To me, he's sending mixed signals.
In post 345, TellTaleHeart wrote:*ugh*
I feel terrible not supporting Antihero, but I'm still indecisive. I'll have to look at this with fresh eyes tomorrow.
In post 337, Heartless wrote:If Anti's ever bugging you, feel free to give him a kick. I agree he could use a lesson in patience.
Your post implies that you have some sort of experience with Anenien. I'm inferring that he was town in the game you're talking about. Are you saying that you think his performance in that game was similar to this one?
unfortunately yes.
I'm going to have to review Anti's points on Anen and see Anen's responses to them before I can have an intelligent conversation about this.
Without actually going back and reading the particular newbie game you're talking about, I'm guessing Anen acted in an antitown manner that made you get a false positive on him. You think that's what's happening with Anti in this particular case?
In post 344, 50 Shades of Purple wrote:agree about star. disagree about md. agree about deathy2. agree about greyfox. disagree about nero. I think he is town. why can't he freaking be like this all of the time. disagree about daves.
When you say "md" are you referring to MTD? If so, I would like to discuss that read further. What do you see that makes you think he's scum?
I'm also interested in what you're thinking regarding MonkeyMan. To me, he's sending mixed signals.
In post 345, TellTaleHeart wrote:I'm going to have to review Anti's points on Anen and see Anen's responses to them before I can have an intelligent conversation about this.
beep boop, raven.
Without actually going back and reading the particular newbie game you're talking about, I'm guessing Anen acted in an antitown manner that made you get a false positive on him. You think that's what's happening with Anti in this particular case?
yes. I think anem is 1 of those players who needs some room but shouldn't exist in a vacuum. if that makes sense.
When you say "md" are you referring to MTD? If so, I would like to discuss that read further. What do you see that makes you think he's scum?
I'm also interested in what you're thinking regarding MonkeyMan. To me, he's sending mixed signals.
-TTH
yes.
he is unsure to me cos a lot of what he says are safe throws. sell me on why he is town.
