Open 570: Making Friends and Enemies (Mafia Wins!)

[uctriton00]

The issue is that uct's reasoning completely falls apart if NPAU is town. In theory, town lynches are all illogical because lynching town inherently makes no sense. Uct's reasoning for his scumread boils down to "it sets people up to be town" which is nothing more than convenience for the sake of convenience.

The primary reason for voting is NPAU being a scum read. If NPAU is town, then I start all over.

Heck, look at this completed game: I hammered mathbandit because I thought he was scum.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6102032

Turns out mathbandit flipped town, so I was wrong. I'm like, ok well damn, let's go rethink my logic.

The associative reasoning, that's all

secondary

and is not the primary motivator of lynching NPAU.

I'm not lynching NPAU for an info lynch (which is what you are implying). I don't have a town read on NPAU at all. I'm lynching him primarily because I think he's scum. Associative reading is *not* set in concrete; they could have night 1, day 2, night 2, day 3, night 3, etc.

[uctriton00]

1) I called you scummy because of reasons that I haven't yet disclosed.
2) You flipped out and said I have no town motivation for anything.
3) I asked you a question, and you still haven't answered it because I haven't posted my case.
4) You made a case which I've already debunked.
5) You came up with more reasons to vote me because of things that you did in another game.

You're making it impossible for me to get a good read on you because I really can't tell where you're coming from. You can't call someone scum and come up with reasoning afterwards because that doesn't make sense.

As for your proposed scumteam, I've already come out with reasons as to why I would vote NPAU. Why is it that you think that I'm his scumpartner if I already said I'm totally willing to vote him?

Alternatively, if I'm not scum, who is and why?

Here is my view on your 1-5

1) You called me scummy but didn't say why (we agree)
2) I flipped out and said I have no town motivation for anything (because I'm wondering what the heck is going on, and am thinking you're scum trying to save NPAU. As town, I would have thought you would have asked me questions to try to sort me out, but instead you claimed you had a set case and wanted everyone to vote me instead, yet never posted a case. I *would* have retracted this idea HAD you posted your case last night, but instead you came in and said "I don't have to explain anything" which is dumb.)
3) I missed it; answering it now: the scum motivation is that you said you had a case on me and started voting, instead of immediately sharing it.
4) You haven't debunked anything
5) It's called making a theory

This is going back to my original point: "I don't have to explain anything to you".
That is scummy beyond belief.

[uctriton00]

Why could you and NPAU be scum together? Imagine NPAU is scum, and then a counterwagon attempt was brought to try to derail it, started by Shinobi.

Is any of this fact? No, we have no facts whatsoever. I could be wrong all over the place. This is called playing Day 1 Mafia.

I think you asked me who else could be scum. Hell I have no idea who else could be scum. I have a few town reads based on some associative reading, but nothing firm yet. I know I'm town, that's about it. I can tell you who my no lynch pool today is: MS, Mala, Scripten, Goodmorning, Heph, and maybe Huntress, even though I spent all of 1 day reading that ISO.

[uctriton00]

Forgot BBT is in the no lynch list for me as well

His reasoning for voting NPAU is "it sets people up to be town."

Nope.

I'm going off the idea (not fact, just an idea) that goodmorning is a town, and the wagon was bad. I looked and the only one that seemed plausible to be on it (assuming it wasn't an all-townie wagon) was NPAU. There's sheeping in there for me because Scripten did make a good organic case and I liked it so much that I followed it.

[Scripten]

Do you consider Shinobi to be scummier than NPAU or are you just voting him because he challenged you with a case you see as poor?

[uctriton00]

NPAU is scummier; the Shinobi case's standing is that he's bringing a fake vote on, with motivation to get off NPAU

I'd still want NPAU lynched, and would be willing to Intent if he ever gets to L-1 one day

[uctriton00]

Forgot to include Shinobi's brazen avoidance of "I don't have to explain anything to you", which is scummy enough to me to where I think he's scum, so that's why I voted him.

[beastcharizard]

Looking for a replacement for Hephaestus.

[Josh_B]

@ Josh: Am I right in thinking that your current scum reads are NPAU, Heph, MS, Mala and possibly Zeb/Dave?

No. Maybe. I'm think I'm ok with you thinking this.

Mala is getting sorted. Who are your scum reads?

[Josh_B]

I'm going off the idea (not fact, just an idea) that goodmorning is a town, and the wagon was bad. I looked and the only one that seemed plausible to be on it (assuming it wasn't an all-townie wagon) was NPAU. There's sheeping in there for me because Scripten did make a good organic case and I liked it so much that I followed it.

What do you think about Nya/heph?

[Shinobi]

Forgot to include Shinobi's brazen avoidance of "I don't have to explain anything to you", which is scummy enough to me to where I think he's scum, so that's why I voted him.

You are never going to convince your target that they are mafia. That is simply not how this game works.

So getting mad at me for not walking you through my initial thought process is more than a little ridiculous.

[Shinobi]

NPAU is scummier; the Shinobi case's standing is that he's bringing a fake vote on, with motivation to get off NPAU

I'd still want NPAU lynched, and would be willing to Intent if he ever gets to L-1 one day

This is so hilariously not the case.

[Peabody]

This is just a first impression:

Uct pings me as town from this 1v1.

Shinobi, not so much.

I'm on my phone, so I can examine why I believe this when I'm on my laptop again. Eh, nothing here is set in stone unless I can analyze my thoughts on both of them via isos.

I haven't commented on uct to date. So this will be my next thing to do.

Oh, and again, all this is from a cursory glance. Don't put much weight in this post. Just telling you where my mind is right now.

[Peabody]

d'aww, heph is being replaced.

[uctriton00]

You are never going to convince your target that they are mafia. That is simply not how this game works.

I reread this like 3 times but am assuming you misworded it. "You are never going to convince your target that they are mafia."

What are you talking about? Are you saying I am trying to convince you that you are Mafia? Are you trying to convince me that I am Mafia? What? As far as I know, all I did was ask "Shinobi, why am I the bullshit on the wagon? Why is it me?"

I'm mad at you because you simply said "I don't have to explain anything to you". That to me is scummy.

[Shinobi]

This is just a first impression:

Uct pings me as town from this 1v1.

Tbh I'm starting to come around to the same idea, but I'm not sure if it's because NPAU not doing anything is making me hesitant or if uct is actually town.

[Shinobi]

You are never going to convince your target that they are mafia. That is simply not how this game works.

I reread this like 3 times but am assuming you misworded it. "You are never going to convince your target that they are mafia."

What are you talking about? Are you saying I am trying to convince you that you are Mafia? Are you trying to convince me that I am Mafia? What? As far as I know, all I did was ask "Shinobi, why am I the bullshit on the wagon? Why is it me?"

I'm mad at you because you simply said "I don't have to explain anything to you". That to me is scummy.

So am I scummy because you're mad at me or am I scummy because I play the game differently than you?

[Metal Sonic]

i dont rly care lalalala

[Scripten]

i dont rly care lalalala

This helps us a lot.

Does this mean that you consider both Shinobi and uctriton00 to be town or what?

[Metal Sonic]

YEA

[Shinobi]

i dont rly care lalalala

This helps us a lot.

Does this mean that you consider both Shinobi and uctriton00 to be town or what?

I think everyone is considering this afaik.

[Scripten]

That was a whole hella lot of bunk. Are we back to the same place we were three pages ago, then?

[Shinobi]

Rofl, I think so.

I really don't think it's a bad thing to find town.

[Shinobi]

UNVOTE:

[beastcharizard]

Prodded nopointinactingup