Open 573: C9++

[Heartless]

well, we can start with the fact that you've been calling nachomollie scum all game and now you're moseying over to an sthar vote with them because.......... strategic lurking?

sthar goes on strategic v/la's as scum?

[Heartless]

we can also continue with the fact that the 50 shades push was liquid shit to begin with

[Heartless]

Like, what did you actually expect? Me to hardpush a case against someone who's lurking? What?

Catching up later. While I'm away,
@TSO: can you link a game you were replaced in (if there are any), please?

town: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=51535
replaced in, called both scum correctly straight away, was forced to compromise, got nk'd, town listened me on one but there was an inexperienced/VI in LyLo and he threw the game.
town: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49438
replaced in, didn't call any scum correctly, got in a massive fight with desp, got lynched
scum: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=37476
replaced in, made slot pretty town, got to d3, had planned to bus Nacho but town got there first, won in LyLo
scum: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=29865
replaced in, backed scumpartner mara in a 1v1, mara lost, got lynched, was the de facto lynch d2. worst ever scumgame by a long, long shot. I'm somewhat competent as scum - more so than town, anyway.

temp vla

I do not like 5SOP's posting one bit.

Unvote
Vote: sthar8

this is a nice swath of posts

how's ^this for a reads progression, massive?

[T S O]

well, we can start with the fact that you've been calling nachomollie scum all game and now you're moseying over to an sthar vote with them because.......... strategic lurking?

sthar goes on strategic v/la's as scum?

well done anti. you've managed to piece through the logic so clearly laid out and paraphrase it back. therefore, I am scum.

we can also continue with the fact that the 50 shades push was liquid shit to begin with

not really, at all. it's pretty telling when one of their responses to me saying "you're doing nothing" was "neither is anyone else." but I mean, vague accusations ftw! therefore, I am scum.

shit dayum ya got me!

[T S O]

#1002 doesn't even fucking make sense. I didn't go after sthar immediately; I gave him a chance. He continued lurking - that's scummy as fuck. Therefore, I am scum.

The rest of those posts have 0 relevance to anything. Are you sure you're okay, Anti?

[T S O]

it shouldn't be this easy for me to dismantle your arguments - come on now.

[massive]

how's ^this for a reads progression, massive?

Straight up worse than what I did. Good job. Put TTH on the phone.

[T S O]

I like this guy!

[Aneninen]

Massive, 968 – I agree with the first part, it's not relevant right now. As for the second part: it took me some time to call your case weak. In other words: I had been checking the things you mentioned and later I realized that I hadn't been thinking about your case: I've been thinking about other things. That'swhy I assumed that your case couldn't have been a strong one.

Wgeurts, 974 –

"Right now we are all aimlessly voting random people."

– Whut? Do you call this

random

? Building up cases and disagreeing with each other =/= random.

TSO, 982 –

"sthar might not even flip scum."

1004 –

"I didn't go after sthar immediately; I gave him a chance. He continued lurking - that's scummy as fuck."

– What if I told you that he has been generally inactive recently?

_____

@To some players:
Yes, I realized that my posts are "terrible". As always. I'm getting used to this. My cases must be shyt and my arguments must be idiotic all the time.
I know that I'm not the best player on this forum but I'm not stupid. I noted that at least 4 topics I posted – a case, a serious assumption, an important question and a viable argument against a recent case – had been ignored. I think I must wait 'till others find out the same things because my name seems to be a guarantee of shyttiness. Actually, one of my questions has already been asked by someone else, so there is still hope.

[50 Shades of Purple]

@ anen

I don't think any1 is calling you stupid, I just know for my part I had a really hard time parsing your posts and blew lylo. your reasoning is pretty...creative. but people seem to think the same thing about me sometimes.

@ massive

*giggles*

how

you

doin'.

lets dance:



cos I am townreading anti and sometimes his reads can be very good. talk to me about star.

@ tso

I am scumreading star cos he has not even made a thump in this game. <---- it is confusing to me as to why you have not seen this until now. that was my point about him doing this in the faith game which is what you scumread me over.

in other newz I think i am moving mtd to town cos he seems to be genuinely trying to work things out.

[50 Shades of Purple]

@ mod - vc pretty plz

[Death Stare]

Still in the process of syncing

@T S O: Why did your overall attitude change from your first post to now? I was starting to lean town originally but that's rapidly faltering.

[Heartless]

how's ^this for a reads progression, massive?

Straight up worse than what I did. Good job. Put TTH on the phone.

I don't think you're going to like what I have to say any better because I don't understand your push on Nero Cain either.

Here, let me try to explain it back to you the way

I

understand it: NC is scummy because he started out not scumreading wgeurts. Then, later in the game when explaining his wgeurts read, he changed his story and said he was scumreading wgeurts this whole time. Therefore, Nero Cain is scum.

There's several issues with this. One is that, as Antihero and 50 Shades of Purple have already explained, the statement "NC wasn't scumreading wgeurts at first" is categorically false.

But even if I granted you that premise

there's a huge part of the case missing and that's the "Why?" Why would Nero Cain insist on this revisionist history of the game? Was he redoubling his efforts on wgeurts in an attempt to lynch him? Was he using it to justify a push on someone else? Was he doing it to distance himself from wgeurts? The only one that looks plausible is that last one, but it doesn't look like a wgeurts scumread is coming into the equation for

your

particular argument.

You can quote a lot of things and say something is contradictory until you're blue in the face. But if there's no bottom line answer to "why would scum do this?" then your case doesn't have legs to stand on and it looks like you're shoving an argument that's all fluff and no stuff. I can think of plenty of reasons why scum would do that.

If you're not going to talk to Anti about particulars, fine. At least tell me what exactly lies at the heart of your argument.

-TTH

[Jingle]

@ mod - vc pretty plz

Roughly 3 hours from now. But there is one on Page 39.

[Heartless]

it shouldn't be this easy for me to dismantle your arguments - come on now.

I'm not going to sugar coat it: you need an attitude adjustment as much as Anti does. Your catch up is very bare-bones and I don't come away from it knowing much about where you stand this game. In short, it's terrible and not very pro-town. I'm just sorry that someone more articulate than Anti wasn't around to break the news to you.

Let's see if we can't shed any light on the situation, though.

Let's run down the list of questions for you:

1. As Antihero pointed out, why is it that you're scumreading 50 Shades of Purple yet perfectly willing to vote with them?
2. Did you change your read on 50 Shades of Purple?
3. Do you think 50 Shades are bussing?
4. Why do you think 50 Shades is scum? There's a lot of adjectives I could use to describe them and Nacho's case on MTD, but "lethargic" isn't one of them. Anything else?
5. sthar has a past of "lurking strategically" as scum? Where is the substantiation for this claim? Does it apply for this particular situation (i.e. Why is it strategic here)?
6. Do you have any reads outside of 50 Shades, sthar, or wgeurts?
7. Why do you think wgeurts is scum?

That should be enough for now to get you started.

-TTH

[Heartless]

I am scumreading star cos he has not even made a thump in this game. <---- it is confusing to me as to why you have not seen this until now. that was my point about him doing this in the faith game which is what you scumread me over.

Hello!

So, what's your baseline (your expectations) for this? Other than the inactivity from what I'm presuming is due to the announced V/LA, this seems pretty on par with what I saw from him in my last game with him (especially the exchange with GrayFoxx).

Is there something I'm missing?

-TTH

[MonkeyMan]

I appear if you say my name three times, did you know that? You all aren't doing a very good job of it.

@Wguerts:

I don't understand what you plan to do with the lists taht you want people to make. Are you just going to vote for the common lynch read or what?

[sthar8]

So I fell asleep reading last night. I'm for reals catching up right now. From the top of this page:

sthar goes on strategic v/la's as scum?

No. I

lurk

strategically, but faking V/LA would be disingenuous at best. More importantly, Jingle views lying about V/LA as cheating and he'd fill my car with spiders if I did it in his game. Also hamstringing one game for advantage in another is actually cheating, and verifying my site activity level is pretty easy. I had to cut back last week because I was pukey-sick, then I ran a Magic ptq on Sunday which involved a 13 hour workday on Friday and a 14 hour workday on Sunday. Right now I'm desperately trying to catch up on everything despite being sniffles-sick and dead tired. You guys win my attention because short deadline.

[Jingle]

Vote Count 1.12

Flavor?

50 Shades of Purple (2): GrayFoxxxx, wgeurts,
MonkeyMan (2): sthar8, davesaz
massive (2): Heartless, Nero Cain
sthar8 (2): 50 Shades of Purple, T S O
Nero Cain (1): massive
Death Stare (1): MonkeyMan
davesaz (1): Aneninen
T S O(1): MTD
GrayFoxxxx (0):
MTD (0):
Aneninen (0):
Heartless (0):
wgeurts (0):
No Lynch (0):
Not Voting (1): Death Stare

With 13 Alive it is 7 to Lynch or No Lynch.
Deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2014-10-09 13:00:00) on October 9th, 2014 at 1500 PST (GMT-8).

GrayFoxxxx is V/LA through Friday, October 10th.
T S O is V/LA for an undetermined amount of time.

[Aneninen]

Your catch up is very bare-bones and I don't come away from it knowing much about where you stand this game. In short, it's terrible and not very pro-town. I'm just sorry that someone more articulate than Anti wasn't around to break the news to you.

I've checked his [TSO's] links and he had the same type of catch-ups in his town games and pretty different catch-ups in his scum games.
On the other hand, I'm also interested in the answers for the questions you asked from him (in the same post).

@Wguerts:
I don't understand what you plan to do with the lists taht you want people to make. Are you just going to vote for the common lynch read or what?

I can see a possible reason. No one votes for him now and he doesn't really care about Today's lynch as long as it's not him. Or until (unless?) certain players are in danger? I'm thinking about something. I might post more about it later.

No. I

lurk

strategically, but faking V/LA would be disingenuous at best. More importantly, Jingle views lying about V/LA as cheating and he'd fill my car with spiders if I did it in his game. Also hamstringing one game for advantage in another is actually cheating,

and verifying my site activity level is pretty easy

. I had to cut back last week because I was pukey-sick, then I ran a Magic ptq on Sunday which involved a 13 hour workday on Friday and a 14 hour workday on Sunday. Right now I'm desperately trying to catch up on everything despite being sniffles-sick and dead tired. You guys win my attention because short deadline.

I did that. Posted about that.

[wgeurts]

VOTE: Monkeyman
I said I'd drop the monkey push but now he's got 2 votes I'll happily pick it up.

[Nero Cain]

Everytime wgeurts posts my faith in the new generation of players wanes a bit.

[Aneninen]

Okay, Wguerts. Can you provide a link for a game you've been in on the site you've played? Herinner je je dat ik Nederlands lezen kan. ^_^ (Remember: I can read Dutch.)

[sthar8]

(frustration at people for not listening to reads is still a towntell, scum being able to fake towntells don't destroy the validity of them)

I'm saying it's so trivially easy to fake as to be null. But that's largely academic since:

This game lacks nacho whiteknighting the living hell out of monkeyman

VOTE: Death Stare

This implies you KNOW I am town. Only 1 group of people can be certain about other people's alignments and that is scum.

Game over.

hey sthar did you know this post is also town???
I know this post is also town

Is actually spot on.

Also this:

I don't have an update because I am trying not to just see everything they do as scummy. I will look at them again: 1. if a wagon starts to form or 2. Tomorrow. I know at this point I will just confirmation bias myself into thinking they are scummy.

---

saying his vote on me was for reactions. That seemed kinda silly to me.

Look, foxclone, reading can confirm what I said as "I

could have refused to give reasoning

because I was looking for reactions to my vote" not "I voted for reactions."

I voted because you were pursuing an unreasonable scumread against an easy mislynch.

What do you think of him calling me scummy for finding wegurts scummy while simultaneously accusing me of bussing him? Seems damned if I do, damned if I don't.

How?

shtar is still posting on the site and in site chat.

If you put the same amount of effort into sitechat and discussion forums as you do actual games, you have a problem.

eta: holy shit star has still has not posted.

Can maybe read the mod posts mollie fuck.

I do not like 5SOP's posting one bit.

Nacho looks town. Mollie look

ed

town, but her push on me reads like an aryan nations press release. They're not the play today though, so pick something else.

Will not lynch in {Anen, Heartless, whygorts, monkey} because I don't want to lynch town.

Will not lynch in {nero, TSO, nachomollie} for various reasons.

I'd prefer to lynch out of {grayfox, dave} but that might not be entirely sane.

Maybe mtd but probably not. I'm bad at reading him and he was just v/la. Maybe could compromise on anybody not mentioned, I'll think about them overnight.

[Jingle]

Do not reference ongoing games. The reference to an ongoing game has been deleted. If this happens again, severe action will need to be taken. Thank you.

-Jingle